Hey all-
I’m building a garage, nothing fancy. I had planned on having my cement contractor put anchor bolts in (to bolt sole plate to), but he told me today ‘most people are getting away from anchor bolts and now using tapcons (cement screws).
Is this true or is he just trying to do less work? To me anchor bolts sound easier and better…
Opinions?
I’m not a pro, so I don’t have a lot of experience to go on here. Thanks for your replies in advance.
(BTW, pour is tomorrow, so time is of the essence here!) 🙂
E.
Replies
Is the contractor willing to guarantee that the Tapcons will hold the garage down in heavy winds? Sounds a little hokey to me- and I doubt very highly the building inspector would approve it anyway.
Bob
Sounds hokey to me, too. I'd call your local code enforcement officer and ask him what they require (type, spacing, embedment depth, etc.). Better to know now than after the fact ............ might save you some work.
In my neck of the woods, we use anchor bolts.
And we don't even have inspectors. They haven't crossed the river yet.
It just is the way to go. No question in my mind.
Thanks all, I asked the inspector just now when he was here for the form inspection, he said use anchor bolts. That's what I thought. I think my concrete guy was just trying to get out of a little work.
Thanks again,
E.
Was he sugesting LTD ankors?
Still, the warning lamp should be lit with this guy.
Listen to the previous posts, ditch your "concrete contractor" bozo.
PS: this is why I do most everything DIY, although I've met a few thru this board that I would trust to do work.
If I understand your situation correctly, the anchor bolts will be around the perimeter of the building, within a few inches of the edge of the slab. If this is the case, you are much better off using anchor bolts which are set in epoxy rather than expansion anchors. If expansion anchors are placed close to the edge of the slab they can break out a chunk of concrete when they are tightened.
By the way, if you are uncomfortable discussing these types of issues with your contractor, ask the building inspector if he will do the talking for you. They do it all the time, and the contractor can't give him a hard time. Well, he can, but better him than you.
Warning ligt just came on...
Watch this guy.
Tapcons won't pass here. Use anchor bolts.
Greg
Anchor bolts, Anchor bolts, Ancor bolts.
This guy's crew forgot to put them in and he made this up.
Common sense: 1/2" anchor bolt will carry more load that 1/4" tapcon. (the winds her reached 100mph last month. that garage would have been gone with the wind.)
Well I was about to advise you to get a different concrete sub, but then I went to Tapcons web site. They have amazingly high shear values and withdrawl resistance. The 1/4" ones are about 1/3 the value of a 5/8" anchor bolt (simpson book). So it is possible there is some merrit to his claim. Any engineers out there who could comment? Personally, i'd use anchor bolts. I guess I still subscribe to bigger is better... Plus it's what I know. Ditto on the comment of verifying with local code officials. In CA you have to have special inspections if you have to drill and epoxy bolt after the fact. Also, for what its worth, I've sheared off many a tapcon (granted smaller than 1/4") just with a cordless drill.
I'm assuming by "anchor bolt" we're talking about "J" bolts set in fresh concrete.
Tapcons are fine in their place, but I'll believe the moon is made of green cheese before I'd believe that a screw comes anywhere near the withdrawal resistance of a properly set foundation anchor bolt.
To the original poster, if I'm on the same page with you, I'd insist Mr. Concrete Guy either set your anchor bolts, or you do them yourself as the pour is completed.
Anchor bolts do not load the concrete once it has set. The tapcon, or drilled variety, get their strength from expansive action. If they are too close to the edge they will, or could, crack the slab over time. I used them all the time to support very heavy loads from a ceiling but they were never close to the edge. The quality of the concrete has a lot to do with their ultimate strength. Stay with anchor bolts.
I agree completely with staying with anchor bolts. I was only playing "devils advocate" suggesting that while it sounds outrageous, there MAY have been some legitamacy to the tapcon thing, based upon an incomplete and cursory review of website data. I was trying not to discount what sounds outrageous without further investigation. Would I use tapcons in place of anchor bolts? No way, no how, never, ever!
Are you considering Tapcons because you're trying to reuse an existing footing? If you're pouring a new one, then forget the Tapcons and use 5/8" anchor bolts.
You're not saving yourself any time or money by Tapcons and you would end up with inferior construction.
ANCHOR BOLTS! And be sure to take a set of plans for placement to miss the doorways.
From the ease of pouring/finishing a slab, I can see why he doesn't want to have anchor bolts sticking up. With that said, I can't comprehend using "tapcons" for anchoring wall to a slab. Now, if he is talking about using structurally approved threaded rod and the new 2 part epoxy systems, then this is another matter. The specs I have seen for these products are "supposedly" as strong as or even stronger than than an anchor bolt. I can understand the epoxy being stronger than a red head, but not an anchor bolt.(I know some one will correct me if this is mis-stated) I have always used anchor bolts that are long enough to fit under the top couse of rebar. Is this what your asking???
Ain't no way I would depend on Tapcons to hold a building down and I'll bet the building inspector thinks the same way.
If I had some schlock of a concrete guy "forget" to place anchor bolts, I would use Hilti-bolts or other wedge bolts befor Tapcons. Then I would back-charge him for the time and the wedge-bolts.
FWIW, It is far more work to place at least four times as many Tapcons as to drill the few holes for the anchor bolts.
Since this guy is recommending the cheap and easy (for him) approach, he should be suspected of taking other shortcuts. Be sure he places the other steel. I'm betting he wants you to use fibrecement and depend on it for reinforcement. Fibre will help prevent shrinkage cracks but will not take the place of rebar.
Excellence is its own reward!
Here, in Prescott, AZ, you get no credit for using AB for uplift, none. AB, as far as the City, and County inspections are concerned, AB are for the prevention of Lateral movement. If you are trying to prevent Uplift, well, there is the sst16 bolt, that compliments an HD2A, that just the start of Holdown anchors/straps. It's not getting any easier with the requierments, more and more, bigger and longer Hardware, especially around the Garage door, that's even with a minimun 2'8" return. Just what length AB did you use by the way??, or as I like to ask , what the blueprint say. Best of Luck Jim J
I have seen sills shot to the crete, held by straps, and anchors that are so short they do nothing.
I haven't seen a house blow off a foundation yet, nor have I seen one fall down for any one of the things people around here lose sleep over.
It's nice to be a hack, I sleep like a log.
Actually, a well anchored structure is quite dangerous! Can you imagine a tornado picking up a house, foundation and all, only to have the entire intact structure come plummeting out of the sky and landing in a trailer park?
I should speak to our code people about this!
Toto! Toto!
Just to keep things in perspective, How many tornadoes and floods have you slept through, Mr Rip Van Winkle?
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
None, did you have a point? ;-)
Hey, look where I am at, that is why people have to post locations, around here it doesn't matter a fig. Sure, there are exceptions, but gravity is your friend.
If it makes you feel better, I use anchors.
You know what the point is old man. There are places that anchors are really needed.
And I know what your point is. All these old places in New England are still sitting on their granites with nothing more than the herd of carpenter ant to hold them down against the wind in summer and the ice to hold it in place in winter.
Gravity does work better in NH. That's where they've got that magnetic mountain, isn't it?
Wanna know where I've seen the most damage in houses being moved?
When a piece of equipment knocks into one that' well tied down.
By golly, that bottom plate really stays put good!
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
Yeps, those old sills seem to settle down and fit well, eh? Not so much as a tack in em. (yes, I get it, I feel houses in my bones, that is why I do this, and I don't want to do anything else)
Talk about a machine bumping a house, I watched the princess back my truck into the corner of my garage. The house is fine, a little surface damage to the corner board, but MY TRUCK!!!!!!
She got out and laughed. Remind me again why we love them? Don't bother, I'm cracking up just thinking about it.
the princess
Wife or daugher, or G/F?
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Daughter, she is 15 and was learning how to drive a standard. Now I guess I should tell her where the brakes are. I thought she knew where the house was, you know, that big wooden thing sticking out of the bumper of my truck!
Hey at least it was your house, and not the neighbors or something lol
though I really shouldn't laugh too hard, I met my share of ditches, moving cars, parked cars....
come to think of it, I was a really sh!tty driver up until about 4 years ago....Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Sort of around the topic(s)
My uncle was backing his truck up to the nearly completed porch on his cabin- buddy working on the roof- trusted canine companion next to him in the truck. He had just about finished braking when the dog jumped down and landed on the accelerator. Result = buddy in the mud, porch destroyed.
kept the dog, though.
Henry
You had said that you had quit driving a while back. I didn't realize it was 4 rears ago.
DUI?.
Excellence is its own reward!
HELL NO, I ain't quite that stupid.
"my" bar is two blocks away and I walk.
I don't drink and drive, EVER.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Off hand comment as to how his driving "MIGHT" have improved. Just quit.
I noticed a long time ago that a buddy who made real good money as district super on a state road crew drove older vehicles. He had a house full of teenagers.
I put two and two together and decided that it was cheaper for them to learn on several different thousand dollar cars than on one nice one. Dents are a reality for new drivers so I buy pre-dented cars as long as there are teens at home. It saves on stomach acid and I can laugh along with them..
Excellence is its own reward!
I laughed, Piffin, I guess she had going forward all figured out and tried the ol back up with the mirror trick. I guess what killed me was I was coming home at the time and had to watch her do it.
The next best thing I remember was when the ex called me from the gas station, for who knows what, and I hear "Oh, oh, oh!" on the phone, then crash. I guess the concept of putting a truck in gear was over her head, and my truck rolled away from the pump, again with the gravity thing, but combined with the forces of immovable objects and Murphy's law.
Gawd, I have a million of them, like the time she got ticked at me and took my car out for "some quiet time", lol. Put her foot to it and ditched it sideways faster than you could say Don't do that. She came back in and said your car is stuck in the ditch, you might want to go pull it out before someone comes by. Too funny.
I don't want to go off topic here, people have houses they have to fasten down before they blow away. You don't know how many houses I see around here trying to sneak off while no one is looking. There is a good tavern topic lurking, don't even get me started on why I never got to crash any of the folk's cars...read that as I had older brothers that prevented that from ever happening.
Take a look see around the SE - US.
After the tornados in the KC area last spring there where pictures of houses that at a quick glance did not appear to be badly damaged, but closer looks showed them sitting askew to the foundations and where totals.
While there was some talk about revising the codes, there was more talk about insuring that construction met the current codes and anchor bolts was one of the problems.
I'm not in Kansas anymore, auntie Em.
"I'm not in Kansas anymore, auntie Em."
Of course not, after your daughter hit the house.
And BTW, the problem that I mentioned was in MO. Most the the picture of damaged house that I saw in Kansas where old contruction, looked like they where still using hand made nails <G>. The most of the ones in MO where fairly new construction.
Not that this has anything to do with the two states, but just was particular areas in the KC area that where hit.
You are not hearing from too many westerners in this thread. We might change your perspective.
Firstly, I prefer to use "J" bolts into wet concrete to hold a house down. In the western USA & Canada, houses DO move.
On the reno I'm doing now, I've had to replace rotted sills and we cut the bolts off & replaced with Hilti expanders. Whatever keeps it down when the earth walks.
My house is a '31 build, and had no anchor bolts. When I took it over and started renovating, I used expanding anchors and bolts every 10' or so - more than code. There is a lot bigger chance the place will topple off the sill and crash around us if the place moves in an earthquake.
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the HandymanVancouver, Canada
Lemme buy a ya a drink for that comment!
I live in a town where MOST of the houses were built in the 20's on sandstone chunks with a little poor arroyo sand mortar sloped between. No footings at all and not much depth in the stone wall, just enough to get through the minimal sod down to "solid" clay and no bolts of any sort between stone wall and mud sill.
They aren't the greatest, but they are still standing. Wind? Yep, we got lots of it.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.