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Discussion Forum

Anchors for basement and garage walls

jyang949 | Posted in General Discussion on August 6, 2010 02:17am

The folks who sold us our house left some bicycle hooks in the garage. The screw ends didn’t hold well and the hooks are coming out. I’m guessing that I need to attach some wood to the walls and hang the bicycles on that.

We don’t have any water problems in the basement, but my gut says that it is a bad idea to attach a sheet of plywood directly to the walls. Should I anchor some 2-by-4s to the wall, and attach the plywood to that? What should the spacing be?

One problem: It’s not obvious what the walls are made of, so I don’t know how to anchor the wood. One manufacturer of “split drive anchors” said they can only be used in solid concrete, not in mortar, brick, or cinder block. 

Janet

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  1. User avater
    xxPaulCPxx | Aug 06, 2010 02:28pm | #1

    If the holes are already deep enough in the wall that the treads SHOULD have held before (They should be about 1" deep}, then you can do an easy fix.

    Your local hardware store should have a two part epoxy putty - similar to the Easy Putty on the infomercials.  You cut off a chunk about 1/2" long, knead it in your hands like clay until both colors are mixed, then you stuff it in place.  It hardens up like it was metal.  You can use this if the concrete holes just need some repair:  stuff the putty into the hole, then reinstall the hook and let it harden in place.

    1. jyang949 | Aug 06, 2010 06:39pm | #2

      Paul,

      Instead of just fixing the hooks, I would like to add shelves and such so we can get more off the floor. Then maybe we can actually put the cars into the garage!

      Janet

      1. DanH | Aug 06, 2010 06:47pm | #4

        Then maybe we can actually put the cars into the garage!

        What??  Put cars in a garage???  Why I've never heard of such a thing!

        1. DanH | Aug 06, 2010 07:22pm | #5

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/newsbeat/newsid_7875000/7875393.stm

          See #3 -- THAT'S what you do with a garage!

  2. DanH | Aug 06, 2010 06:46pm | #3

    If the bicycle hooks are coming out likely they had short threaded shanks or were not screwed into studs.  I've seen some bicycle hooks with only about an inch of thread, and you really should have 1.5 - 2 inches of thread, with most of that driven into the wood (ie, discount any part that's meerly penetrating the drywall).

    If the studs aren't in the right places then you should attach wood (at least 2x thickness) to the walls (attaching to studs) with 16d nails, lag bolts, or good sturdy structural screws.  Drive the bicycle hooks into the wood as above (drill pilot holes using a drill that's about 1/8" smaller in diameter than the unthreaded shank of the hook).  Note that 2x6 is better than 2x4 for this duty since you have more "meat" to get two fasteners into each stud, and there'll be less tendency for the wood to "lever" out.

    Yes, in the basement you generally should space the wood away from masonry a bit, to allow some air to circulate behind.  Generally 1x3s are good for this job.  How you anchor them depends on the available tools, but if you have a hammer drill (or need an excuse to buy one) then Tapcon screws are a good choice in most forms of masonry.  The plywood can be screwed to the 1x3s if the load is light, or, if there'lll be a heavy load (over, say, 50 pounds to a 4x8 sheet, not counting the weight of the plywood itself), use a few longer Tapcons to fasten through the 1x3s to the concrete (especially near the top), in addition to fastening to the 1x3s.

    1. jyang949 | Aug 07, 2010 06:01pm | #6

      My husband thinks that the garage walls are poured concrete and the basement walls are cinder block. Are these types of walls built with studs?

      Janet

      1. DanH | Aug 07, 2010 06:20pm | #7

        Well, you'd never be able to drive a bike hook into concrete (poured or block) without pre-drilling a hole and using something like a lead shield.  If that's what you've got you should attach the wood (2x) with Tapcons and then put the hooks in the wood (with pre-drilled pilot holes for both the Tapcons and the hooks).

        Or you may be able to find some substitute for the hooks you can attach with Tapcons.

      2. Clewless1 | Aug 08, 2010 10:21am | #8

        No, generally they are NOT BUILT WITH STUDS ... to answer your question.

        1. jyang949 | Aug 09, 2010 04:43pm | #9

          Not built with studs

          Clew,

          Thanks. I was pretty sure it was a stupid question and wasn't going to ask it at all. Eventually decided that I'd feel really stupid if it turned out there were studs I could have used.

          Janet

            

          1. Clewless1 | Aug 10, 2010 08:30am | #13

            Ain't NO stupid questions!! I never care if I ask a stupid question ... long as I get an answer or learn something ... it's all good and I achieve the success I need. Sometimes I don't realize it is 'stupid' until after I ask and it is answered ... no worries ma'am.

      3. jyang949 | Aug 11, 2010 08:11pm | #18

        The garage wall is not solid concrete after all. The bit went into the wall about ½", then air for another 4".

        Does this sound like cinder block? Does it require an anchor that spreads out?

        Janet

            

        1. DanH | Aug 11, 2010 09:25pm | #20

          Yep, thats "cinder

          Yep, thats "cinder block"/"concrete block"/CMU (concrete modular units).  If you get a good clean hole (not badly chipped out and oversized) then Tapcon-style screws will hold pretty well by themselves (assuming that your bicycle hooks won't be holding anything heavier than bicycles.  If the hole is oversized or torn out then  you need some sort of anchor (and there are many styles to choose from).

          Note that you may find some spots where the concrete is solid, and some spots where it's only 1/2" thick, and some spots a bit thicker.  It depends on where you drill your holes.

    2. jyang949 | Aug 09, 2010 04:52pm | #10

      Treated wood

      Do the 1×3 spacers need to be treated wood?  

      Janet

        

      1. DanH | Aug 09, 2010 07:59pm | #11

        Not unless the concrete is noticeably wet.  It doesn't hurt to put a strip of tar paper (or rubber flashing material) between the wood and the masonry, though.

        1. User avater
          xxPaulCPxx | Aug 09, 2010 10:10pm | #12

          For the DIYer, you would look for Window Flashing Tape or Peel & Stick

    3. jyang949 | Aug 11, 2010 11:43am | #14

      Is a hammer drill absolutely necessary? I am not making much progress with my current drill, but it could be the bit rather than the drill. The bit was labeled "tile and masonry" but doesn't have a carbide tip.

      Is there some sort of manual tool that converts a hammer blow into a rotary motion?--i.e., a no-tech version of a hammer drill.

      Janet

      1. User avater
        xxPaulCPxx | Aug 11, 2010 12:18pm | #15

        Yes, the hammer drill is absolutely neccissary.  The hammer vibrates the hard bit into the rock to chip it, then the rotation carries away the debris.  You will not have much success with only a rotational drill.

        When dealing with concrete, you need the correct tools.

        This costs $60 at Home Depot:

        http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Power-Tools-Hammer-Drills/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xhcZart9/R-100593261/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

        With it, all your holes will be done in minutes.

        1. jyang949 | Aug 11, 2010 12:26pm | #16

          Fortunately, my neighbor is letting me borrow his hammer drill. It's good to have neighbors who love tools.

          Janet

        2. jyang949 | Aug 11, 2010 12:47pm | #17

          About the manual tool that doesn't exist

          There was a gunsmith at the Kutztown Folk Festival and they demonstrating a long, horizontal tool. I forget what it was called, but it was used to put the rifling grooves in a long barrel. An apprentice would push and pull the handle back and forth, and somehow that linear motion was converted into a rotary motion, so the cutter traveled a spiral path along the tube.

          Along the same lines, I was wondering if there is a manual gadget that you hit with a hammer to drive a masonry bit. What did they use before hammer drills?

          Janet

          1. User avater
            xxPaulCPxx | Aug 12, 2010 12:52pm | #21

            They used Star Drills... and took alot more time unless you had already drilled a thousand holes with them.

          2. DanH | Aug 12, 2010 08:16pm | #24

            Actually, the old Western Electric drill setup was pretty good.  There was a bit holder with a hand grip and shield, and something resembling a standard masonry bit chucked into it.  I don't know if the bit holder included any "auto twist" action, but the thing could drill small holes cleaner and quicker than a star drill.

      2. DanH | Aug 11, 2010 09:19pm | #19

        You can get by without a hammer drill, but a cheap one can be had for under $50, so it's kinda silly to try without it.

        There are old manual drills for this duty (often used by telephone installers in the distant past, eg), but you'd probably pay more for a used one than a new hammer drill.  You could use a "star drill", but you probably couldn't find a small one, and they produce poor quality holes that won't take anchors well.

        Especially if you don't have a hammer drill, though, you need a good carbide masonry bit.

        Sometimes, when there's a piece of aggregate in the way of drilling (with a non-hammer drill), it works to take the bit out of the drill, place it in the hole, and give it a few medium-hard taps with a hammer to break the aggregate.  This is a poor man's hammer drill.

        1. jyang949 | Aug 12, 2010 05:25pm | #22

          Bosch "Blue Granite" bits

          My neighbor lent me his Bosch hammer drill and bits. I checked the labeling on my own drill bit and found that it had a carbide tip after all. Chucked it into the drill and--nothing.  It was like drilling with a popsicle stick.

          So I switched to one of his Bosch bits, and it went through the concrete easily and quickly. 

          My bit was Vermont brand, which was all the hardware store carried. It was cheap so I knew it would dull quickly, but for this small project it didn't have to last long. I did not realize that the cheap bit would be inadequate from the start. What a difference! 

          I'm buying my neighbor a replacement bit as a thank-you, and it'll be the same brand since he likes them. But that has me wondering: What brand of bits do you think are the best?

          Janet

          1. DanH | Aug 12, 2010 08:13pm | #23

            Certainly the Vermont bit is not the same quality as a Bosch (Vermont is a respectable brand, but more designed for light DIY work), but it may also be that you overheated the bit with your efforts with the original drill, and overheating a bit will destroy it.

          2. jyang949 | Aug 13, 2010 03:27pm | #25

            I was trying to avoid damaging the bit, but of course it is possible that it overheated anyway because I didn't have any cutting oil. I kept stopping to spritz it with water, which may have been a mistake. 

            Janet

          3. DanH | Aug 13, 2010 06:17pm | #27

            No, you wouldn't use oil -- water's fine.  But it only takes about 30 seconds to overheat a cheap bit if it's "spinning".  The tendency when a bit doesn't "bite" is to run the drill faster, but you really need to slow way down and use more pressure instead.  This goes for wood, metal, or masonry.

  3. jyang949 | Aug 13, 2010 05:50pm | #26

    How to plug the old holes?

    Last month I bought Type I Portland Cement, and still have some left over. It's been humid so I figure it needs to be used up soon or thrown out. Can this be used to plug the holes, or is it a bad idea to mix new cement and old concrete?

    Janet

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