I live in a 25 yr old log home with double-hung Andersen Narrowline windows. Some of these leak air pretty bad, mostly between the sashes. I think part of the reason is that the logs may have settled a bit and deformed the frames over the years. Anyway, there is one problem window in our living room which the sashes are totally shot. Enough air has leaked, condensed, frosted, whatever….that the wood on the sash is discolored and starting to rot. I could replace the sashes and try to straighten out the frame, but I am more inclined to replace the entire unit. It is two 28310 mullioned together.
I can replace it with an identical unit, which nowdays has Low-E glass. Cosmetically, this is the best choice so it will match the other windows. I was also looking at the 400 series which has the tilt sash, similar (but not identical) hardware, and Low-E gas filled glazing. Being on the first floor, cleaning is not a big issue, and I am wary of the vinyl/foam tracks which have to be compressed to release the sashes. How will that hold up 20 years from now?
There is also a ‘picture window’ in the room which is 3 of the same unit mullioned. It has some air issues also, but we keep it caulked. We have talked about replacing this eventually, but in the short run are looking at insulated curtains. So the issue is this: Are Andersen windows a decent choice? If I moved to another brand such as Marvin, I would have mis-matched windows, unless I replaced a whole bunch of them. I’m trying to balance cosmetics (inside and out) with performance and cost.
So any advice, and opinions of Andersen windows are appreciated.
Replies
Andersen is a good window. The Chevy or Ford of windows.
If your frames are salvagable, you could replace the sashes only, perhaps the tracks as well.
Parts are available for decades based on my experience.
I have no experience with the tilt wash Andersens.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
The fact that you have a 25 year old window that you can replace with an identical (but improved) unit tells you something about Anderson.
Another very important factor when choosing windows is support. It would be a lot more difficult for me to get Marvin, for example, to stand behind a window because there isn't a Marvin distributer close.
The local lumberyard that I use sells Anderson (as do several other nearby locations). If there is a problem with an Anderson window, getting service is very easy.
But for you, some other window might offer better support in your area.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
As Eric indicated, your lumberyard will have a catalog with replacement parts for the windows. You can buy new sashes, seals, cranks, etc. Not incredibly cheap, but usually cheaper/easier than the alternatives.
Re the log construction, keep in mind that windows and doors in such construction are supposed to be mounted so that they can "float", and not be subjected to stresses due to the logs moving about.
Sounds like I should stick with Andersen. BTW, the windows definately are not set up to float. Heck, nothing was built right in this kit home....what they did was cut a R.O. in the logs, then frame it with 2x4's and nail the window flange to that. Hammer, you are exactly correct with your description of the outside trim. The interior trim needs replacing. That is really how this project started. The old trim was just a few 1x4's nailed up. The stool is (get this) a 2x4 lag bolted into the logs. I got tired of looking at that mess, and of course one thing led to another.
Logs have pretty much settled by now, I priced new sashes, but they are 3/4 the price of a new unit.....and the new unit wouldn't be warped. Not that I look forward to the extra labor........
Edited 4/27/2005 10:48 pm ET by TommyMc
The way it should be, more or less, is that a frame is built into the opening in the logs, pegged at the bottom, but at the top the side members continue upward several inches beyond the top of the RO, and are set into notches in the bottom of the logs, with the frame otherwise left loose. Clearances should be such that the logs can shrink an inch or two vertically without compressing the frame.
25 years ago there were some problems with Anderson Narrowline double hungs. They used a sash lock that pulled the meeting rails together to improve the seal but it often resulted in cracking the glass. I thought they would have gone out of business back then but they stood behind their products and still do today. I believe you can still get a representative to come out and look at your situation and make recommendations. I think Andersons are a good window and a great value. Lately I have been installing the tilt wash style and I think, with the few times folks use the feature, they should last fine.
Materials have come a long way over the years. The weather stripping is more effective, longer lasting and the glass has also greatly improved. I don't think you can go wrong with Andersons.
If you have a log home, there must be some exterior trim over the nailing flange. If this is the case, it would be easy to remove and replace the entire window if you choose that route. You may have difficulty finding another brand that will fit the openings as well as Andersons. The easiest thing to do would be to buy replacement sash. You wouldn't have to touch the interior or exterior trim. In the eighties, they sent the nailing flanges loose and they were tapped into a groove by the installers. There's a possibility, if the frames aren't distorted too much, that they could be jacked just a little. There is enough slop in the way these windows work, that a slightly out of square frame may not affect them.
There are a number of things you need to look at in determining the problems with your existing windows. The price of Pella or Marvin along with the labor, interior and exterior trim, paint, etc. will be a shocker. Getting the opinion of a representative would be a smart place to start.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
The timing on this thread couldn't be better for me, anyway. I have a client who wants to match existing Andersen double-hung windows with an Andersen replacement window. I've been told that Andersen only sells replacements in a franchise arrangement, such that an installer will come out, measure and install. No one seems to sell these windows directly to the homeowner. The only name that comes up in my area (NJ) is Home Depot as a franchiser. I'm not sure I want to get in there with single window retrofit. Is this bad information???
Edited 4/28/2005 12:42 pm ET by unTreated wood
Around here(Pittsburgh) Anderson is opening up franchises called Renewal. They are stand alone showrooms, that will only sell to homeowners directly. They sell the replacement windows/installation as a package, and won't sell the windows without their installers doing the work.
Is there any particular reason why he wants a replacement window, vs a new construction window?
1) doesn't want to tear out more than necessary;
2) previous owners had replacements and my client wants to match those;
other than that, not sure!
I built our home 15 years ago and installed Andersen casement units. Last year 3 windows "hazed" from the doublepane seal leaking. Andersen provided me replacement sash at no cost. I would consider Andersen again because they back their product. I have no experience with their double-hungs.
TommyMc,
A log home isn't very well insulated, thus your furnace is already working pretty hard to keep everything warm.. The settling issue common with log homes has made things worse.
If your windows are bad take a carefull look at the butt ends of your logs,POKE around with a pick and see if you can detect any rot, it's very common for them to rot and once that happens you won't have much time before the walls decay to the point where drastic action is called for..
If you have signs of rot replace the sash as needed and prepare for the future. If there isn't any decay in the butts of logs, you could replace the windows with either of Andersens lines (200 or 400) But knowing how little insulational value there is in typical log homes, the problems with vapor and the fact that very few log homes survive with modern life styles, I'd be more inclined to put the less expensive windows in..
Hi,
FYI - I also live in a log home with Andersen windows. They did not come with the kit. (I live in Northwest CT.)
Now - After 16 years - the windows are still in mint condition (except for the one my antenna went thru!) I suggest finding out why this happened before you replace your windows.
E
I install windows and doors for Pella. The improvement in windows is quite dramatic in the last few years. I install windows in older homes and see all brands after they have been in place for a few years. Most of the failure is from poor stewardship of home owners. They or their painter do not caulk properly or use cheap grade. The old windows we take out are just old and leak badly. Most of the top brands have put a lot of thought into making their product better, but they are very expensive. Most of the cost has to do with their 10/20 warranty. 10 years on the frame and 20 on the glass. If your window frame is in good shape and has been properly insulated around the frame than replacing the sashes may be the way to go. But sometimes it is a very poor decision, because you end up with new sashes on an old window that may need to be replaced.
Edited 4/28/2005 11:52 pm ET by dann1
Exactly as dann1 says, I'm not going to put $ into new sashes until I can find and fix the problem. BTW, we added a shed dormer to the upstairs 6 or 7 yrs ago. It is 2 x 6 standard construction, and the same model windows are doing fine.
Last night, I pulled the trim off the inside of the worst of the old windows. The top of the frame has a noticable sag.....maybe 1/4' or so. The insulation was jam packed in the space between the frame and the header, but when I removed it, there is plenty of space to pull the frame back to square. At first, I thought all the packed insulation was the cause (yes, I know it shouldn't be packed that tight) but something else is holding it. I'm suspecting that the exterior 5/4 x 3 trim boards may be warping it. The window is actually inset into the RO, and the trim boards are flush with the exterior log surface. They are a tight fit around the window, so if the logs settled, they could put pressure on the frame. When the rain stops, I'll pull the trim off outside, and try draw the top of the frame back up with some screws.
The lower sashes also have a bit of a sag by the sash lock......to some degree in all the older windows. My theory is that when the warped frame prevented the top sash from rising all the way, the sash lock could forced the top of the sash to bend in the middle. So if I can fix true up the frame, is there any reason not to get new sashes only? My reasoning for new windows has been that for about 1/3 more cost, I'll be getting better glass and the vinyl cladding will have had 25 years less UV and weather.