I’m planning on putting down 12″ wide white pine t&g flooring. can this just be edge nailed through the tongue with a pneumatic flooring nailer or would it be better to face nail or crew and plug? Time isn’t really an issue. I’ll be installing myself and just want a good end result.
I know it will get quite a bit of “character” being that its soft but I’m OK with that.
I’ll probably hit you up with some soapstone questions soon too.
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Replies
I'm not Andy but I play him on TV...
If you don't want any nails showing you can use construction adhesive and tongue nail.
years ago we screwed and bunged some pine.
it was stained asphalt brown (verrry dark) and the bungs pretty much dissappeared.
Wide pine will move alot so good fastening is a must.
I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
"years ago we screwed and bunged some pine"
you know taken out of context that could come across as very very odd.....
But it would explain how T got those slivers
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ouch.
Got Wood???I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
Not currently, but i haven't seen you're smiling face in a while either ; )
Here ya goI don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
I just put down 250 sf of 9" wide t&g pine in my kitchen. Used a standard cleat nailer for the tongues, wnet back and predrilled and face nailed with two rose-head nails at each joist. Stained it dark black, but light enough that some of the grain shows through if you look at it right. Andy sold me some of his surplus nails. Worked real well.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
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When using any flooring wider than 6" and blind nailing, you need adhesive also. Do away with the adhesive and you need to face nail - or screw
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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You can get away with glue and nails through the tongue but personally I'd feel more comfortable with boards that wide face nailed as well but thats up to you.
Also...you better be prepared for some hairy sanding. Soft pine to me has been the mosty difficult to sand of anything I've ever put down.
Chatter marks from the drum sanders are an issue if you go that route. Even those sanders you can rent from HD leave marking. I ended up on my hands and knees with my palm sander to get out all the markings that the large sanders leave. Wasn't that big of a deal but its time consuming.
Soapstone is a whole lot more fun to work with...lol
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
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Now I'm no wood expert but with flooring that wide I'd think your going to get a lot of seasonal movement with gaps opening up in the winter and/or splitting if the wood is held down so tight that it can't move.
Not that bad if you dry it first, then seal it all sides beore installation. If you were to simply lay in right off the delivery truck, it would probably open gaps as wide as 3/8" which would not even be holding the joint
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What kind of wood is in that master bath? Is that heart pine or a stain?
all of those are a white pine, 1x10 and 1x12, stained.
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With reasonably normal changes in relative humidity (45% to 90%), a white pine board that starts at 11-1/2" wide will expand/contract as much as 1/4".
Good luck holding it tight to the floor, without any splits.
For better documentation on wood movement, see:
http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/shrinkulator.htm
Support our Troops. Bring them home. Now. And pray that at least some of the buildings in the green zone have flat roofs, with a stairway.
Yeah, virtualy all wood moves with seasonal humidity fluctuations. A 2% fluctuation on a 2" board might not be noticable. But the same 2% fluctuation on a 11" board might open some nasty cracks between boards...which dirt and crud could then fall into...then that dirt and crud could restrict the movement back to tight joints when the humidity rise again...not good when considered over the (minimum) 100 year life cycle of that floor.
Here in the Pacific Northwet, anytime customers start talking about flooring wider than 4", I start thinking about something other than t+g blind nailing.Remodeling contractor who once visited the Glass City.
RH is a meaasure of moisture in the air.
We are taalking about wood here.RH will evenetaaully migrate to hence the MC of the wood, but sealing it can limit that bsorbtion and movement to a great degree.Further, when a hous eis climate controled, you can count on it fluctuating no more than about 25% of wht the exterior air does.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
i personally don't mind the look of face nails, especially square headed nail. definetely follow the formentioned advice and pl premium the crap out of it. there is no way i would blind nail it.
I'm thinking face nailing or scrwews and plugs is probably the way to go. I like the look either way, just haven't done it before.
What kind of nails did you use? Did you also glue it down?
So that mean you don't want face nails? They look real good. Maybe you should order a few and do a test piece with different finishes and fastners. Thats what I did. Ended up making my own stain cuz I couldn't find one I was happy with. Don't go by the samples in the store at all!
I like the look of rosehead nails. I got the "clinched" roseheads and I used them on some custom moldings I made out of some reclaimed lumber I salvaged from this house as well as on the floor.
Here's a link to the company I used for nails.
http://www.tremontnail.com/catalog.htm
I used PL Premium glue and nails.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit." Abbie Hoffman
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
No, face nails are fine, I meant that I could use screws and plugs or just face nail it.
As far as finish we are planning in just hitting it with a few coats of waterlox.
decortative roseheads are much more sightly than square headed cut nails
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agreed. tremont nail has the oldest functional nail cutting machine in america (i believe). they make a variety of nails including roseheads, though the "bead" on the nails is not or was not used for decoration but to set the nail slightly. (at least that was my understanding)the only difference between the new and the old is that the old are wrought iron and the new are a mixed steel making them rust slightly faster.
expensive though. the nails the op should use run about $9 a pound. phew!!
Edited 5/24/2007 7:01 am ET by arnemckinley
Edited 5/24/2007 7:05 am ET by arnemckinley
I made tongue and groove decking for a log house with 2x10s. The tongue was a strip of 1/2" plywood. Milled a bead detail on the ceiling side and flush on the floor side. I thought about using const. adhesive, but opted for counterbored and plugged deck screws. I used two screws at each joist. I have had no problems with boards splitting as many have predicted. I have however, had some of the joints open up. I attribute that to not allowing those boards to acclimate prior to milling and installation. More character. I cut the plugs from scraps of the flooring. I was able to match colors in grain with little effort.
TomW
Wide boards really should be face screwed and Bunged.. forget those who advocate glue.. wood that wide will move too much and cause a breakage in the bonding.
face screwed and bunged isn't hard, just time consuming.. you can use your cut off scrap pieces and make your own bungs and match the wood perfectly if you spend a moment to align the grain and color..
You can also face nail if you want but the edge nailing simply won't work..
"wood that wide will move too much and cause a breakage in the bonding. "depends whether you do it well or do it sloppy
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Piffan,
Much as I respect your expertese, there is simply no way wood that expands and contracts over a 1/4 of an inch is going to be a good candidate for adhesive. Take whatever wood you intend to use, glue it with what ever glue you'd like in whatever manner you'd like to and sooner or later the bond will fail.. Remember you are basically glueing across grain.
Cabinet makers know that because centuries of experiance has taught them that. They float joints that go across grain..They do not attempt to glue them in place. For example if you look at raised panel construction used in cabinet making the panel is floating not glued. Go over to fine wood working and ask there if you'd like.
I've walked on floors where they have attempted to make wide boards stick with glue and you can hear the cracking and flexing as they work.. Glueing works on floors like parquet because the small pieces are small enough to limit wood expansion and shrinking, it will also work on narrow strip flooring like a Gym etc. again because the wood is narrow enough that expansion and shrinking won't affect it..
I can see it working in a perfectly climate controled house where the windows are sealed and A/C basically keeps the humidity at one contant percentage. But an ordinary home? humidity near 100% in the spring and summer and perhaps 4% in the winter? Pine? Not a chance. sorry..
You are telling me that I can't do something I have done many a time.First, realize that a quarter inch in ten or eleven inches is only a couple of percent.Butthen stop, bo back and read what I wrote. There are ways to seal wood and prevent it fdrom absorbing so much mositure from the air that it has to move even that quarter inch.Dry it, seal it, lay it in glue, finish it and quit worrying. The photos I posted are 9 and 11 inch stock and they move less than 1/8". No air conditioning and a maritime climate.BTW, bostic wood flooring glue is formulated to allow a bit of movement.You might be right about the typical jackleg laying unstabilised flooring, but when you say thaat it cannot be done, you are just full of bull
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"Remember you are basically glueing across grain."ever notice plywood?
Big pieces of wood glued just that way.You gotta call Georgia Pacific and tell them how wrong they have been all these years
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I believe it was David Byrne who said:Stop making sense!!I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
"this is not my beautiful hoWse!" ha, ha, ha Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Holly they are having a lovely spring book sale at FHB.com.
pic up a book on parging block wall for Mrs snort...I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
I got her that for Mother's Day...how do you know there's a sale? <G> Outside of the gates the trucks were unloadin',
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
Look down...I wish I knew how to insert an annoying Martha Stewart Banner in my tagline....
I wish I knew how to insert an annoying Martha Stewart Banner in my tagline....I think I may have recently seen something like around here, have you asked Lowanton for some help?<G> I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
No, I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
Well, she talks to all the servants
About man and God and law.
Everybody says
She's the brains behind pa.
She's sixty-eight, but she says she's twenty-four.
I ain't gonna work for Maggie's ma no more.
nah Ive done enuf pissin in the wind....I wish I knew how to insert an annoying Martha Stewart Banner in my tagline....
Or use a contrasting wood (like walnut) to highlight the plugs. I think this looks swell.
Bryan Sayer,
While I seriously considered a contrasting wood, because of how busy things would get I decided not to use a contrasting wood. In some sense I regret it because it was a lot of work to put all those plugs in place and I thought I did a nice job of it.