Ran into a friend of mine recently, who does handyman/carpentry for a living. Saw his hand wrapped up, had to ask what happened. Cutting just one piece of trim for a repair job, bevel cut on the table saw. Tripped on a piece of scrap, instinctively put out his hand to break the fall, ended up putting his thumb right into a moving blade. Completely severed his right thumb. Found it 10′ away, on the floor.
Picked it up, squeezed the cut hand to minimize blood loss. $18,000 helicopter trip to San Francisco, and who knows how much for emergency care – they sewed it back on, with some pins inside. Been 2-1/2 weeks, and its already healing pretty good, starting to get a little feeling back in it. Wow. Be careful out there!
“he…never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too” – Mark Twain
Replies
The two best trim carps I've ever worked with, both cut their fingers once. Those guys were pretty careful too.
None of us are too good to get injured.
On another note: Huck I posted pics of my version of your drawers in the "Van Storage" thread.
Edited 3/20/2006 9:56 pm ET by basswood
Why the helicopter ride? He wasn't actually bleeding out from his thumb, was he????? Was it a matter of getting him ASAP to a facility that could stitch it back on? How far is Bakersfield from SF? (I could look on Mapquest, but I'm lazy tonight.)
Why the helicopter ride?
Not sure why, I didn't get the whole story. I assume there were specialists there that Bakersfield didn't have."he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Yeah, I'd guess the helicopter ride had more to do with keeping the thumb alive than keeping your friend alive. Even on ice, there's a pretty tight window that a severed extremity can survive without blood flow from the body it's supposed to be attached to. I'd imagine that the quicker that sucker gets put back on, the more you can expect in the recovery in regards to feeling and range of use.View Image
I use to be from the San Francisco Bay area, Torn. Had the injured Carpenter gone by auto, to the Hospital, he would have died of old age! LOL. ............Pop, use to live in Vallejo.
...posted pics of my version of your drawers in the "Van Storage" thread
I could't find this thread - could you give me directions, or a link? Thanks!"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Try this:69658.24
Huck, Here are the drawers:
Verrrry nice! Did you have to beef up your suspension at all?"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Huck,That VW Eurovan is a real 3/4 ton rated work machine. I can haul 30 4x8 sheets of drywall on the platform above the drawers. Even under a load like that the van still rides and handles well (no sagging, draggin', or leaning. It weighs over 6000 lbs loaded and still has plenty of power and good milage (17 mpg loaded 19 mpg empty). It just looks like a minivan.Sorry for the hijack, the van storage is only remotely related to the original topic...there is a Bosch tablesaw in the van and in the drawer pic a collection of push sticks...still have all my fingers.
Edited 3/25/2006 10:24 am ET by basswood
Basswood-- that is one of the nicest work truck setups I have ever seen... and I bet it rides nice!
What kind of van? VW?
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Yup. VW Eurovan. No longer available in the US, except used. It is a shame IMO. They are popular in Europe & still sold there, just never caught on here.Here is a link to a review of my van:http://www.wnep.com/global/story.asp?s=2591467It is not only the best work set up I have ever had, It takes about 15 min. to convert back to a family van. Tools in the middle all wheel out, one shelf over the bench seat pulls out, two bucket seats snap back in, and you can haul six passengers. I use it for family on weekends.
Gorgeous... and good on gas right? What is it... little bigger turbodiesel?
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Diesel (Turbo Direct Injection-TDI) available in Europe. Mine is a 201 h.p. VR6 gas engine, very peppy for a power plant that would fit in my lunch box. The engine is so compact because of the narrow 30 degree "V" and zigzag pattern cylinders (imagine a six pack with the rows of cans slid past each other so they fit tightly together). Really halfway between a V6 and a straight 6.I believe they stopped selling them new in N.A. in 2004.Mine gets 16 to 19 mpg. Good for a work van full of tools. Sprinter does better on fuel though...but I like the unique qualities of the VW for work/family.
Edited 3/25/2006 12:34 pm ET by basswood
Cool truck... I like it. It's nearly a full size van huh.
If I was still installing I'd like to use our Toyota Sienna as a work truck... You just can't sacrifice comfort....
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
"Cool truck... I like it. It's nearly a full size van huh."Glad you like it.It is an oxymoron on wheels...a "large mini-van." I don't know if any other minivans can haul 4x8 sheets flat, maybe so--it is the only small van rated for 3/4 ton payloads. When people see our jobsite setup, they wonder how all the gear arrived. They are suprised when we point at the Volkswagon.I'll divert this hijack back to the van storage thread here is one of my posts about what I haul in that van: From: basswood Mar-19 2:07 pm
To: makman (26 of 26)
69658.26 in reply to 69658.25
I somehow manage to carry everything I need for complete remodel jobs (demo & frame through drywall and trim) in that VW minivan.Those photos show Bosch tablesaw & stand, Hitachi SCMS & stand, power handtool cart on wheels (planer, RAG, ROS, BS, Jigsaw, etc.), clamps, fasteners of all kinds, boombox, compressor & 4 nail guns, caulk & paint tools, 3 cordless drills & cordless CS, recipsaw, cabinet tools, coutertop tools, right angle drill, staplers, jigs...you name it it is in there & handy enough to get to.I usually also carry sawhorses and runners & drops. Good thing that minivan is rated for 3/4 ton though. Will also pull 5000# but my hitch is just rated for 3000#.Edit to Add: Also have shopvac/cords etc. oh and that handtool organizer thing. nuther thing I just thot of...I keep two of those work bench thingies in there too--I dig those (have to have one to put tools & stuff on and one to stand on/sit on.
What is a "work bench thingy?"
This is what I'm talkin' 'bout:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E5R6LM/qid=1143314879/sr=1-37/ref=sr_1_37/002-6415708-6874437?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=hi&v=glance&n=228013
Basswood,Thank you. I have a similar thing I got from Home Depot for $35.00 I am a big fan of the Pack Mule Saw Horse that they sell also.So I took my aluminum folder and added a fold down handle in the center. the I used tek screws to screw a piece of 5/8 plywood to the top. I chose this thickness because the handle is that thick when folded down. I then cut out around the handle so I can still access it.Now I have a smooth top I can cut one and draw in and things don't fall into the grooves and I have a balance center handle so I can move it easily from place to place with one hand.Kirk
I've done it twice, Severed one thumb at the joint... they fused it so that joint doesn't work. Feeling has come back but it has taken nearly 5 years. Good surgeon.
I cut the middle finger on the other hand in half straight down from the tip of the finger through the joint... works fine, just looks funny.
Fingers hurt when you damage them... second only to spinal injuries, lots of nerves. When a nerve is re-attaching there isn't much that will touch the pain.
It was a good year until I was comfortable using a tablesaw.
Couple of years ago nearly put a push stick through my left hand... now I round those out to prevent puncture.
Why do you guys think I do more design work nowadays?
In 20 years I fell through 2 roofs, off 3, shot myself 20 odd times with air nailers... even put a 2 1/2" finishing nail through 3 fingers at once...
2 crushed discs, numerous broken bones including a compound fracture of the foot and ankle... crushed right wrist from a truck accident (bent the steering wheel out of shape about 8" in an F150).
I was putting in way too many hours, 70-120/ week normally. Pretty much worn myself out. Trust me, accidents happen when you are exhausted or on a high (excited) or a low ( stressed).
Here's the kicker--I am 39 years old.
I think it was Andy Engel that told me that the average number of fingers on the staff at FH was about 7.
Be careful guys. (Brought to you by the committee to ban tablesaws everywhere)
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
cut the middle finger on the other hand in half straight down from the tip of the finger through the joint
My father did that when I was a kid. His first finger, went through the first joint. When he was in high school he cut off his "finger" finger at the second joint. Both on the same hand. The fingernail he split still grows back real weird.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You are lucky to benefit from your Dad's experience... Learning from your own mistakes takes longer and is way more difficult.
I count myself really lucky--I have many friends and aquaintences that didn't fare so well. Pain's nothing... compared to pain that lasts forever, or disabilities that don't heal.
People rarely notice... I appear to have all my digits, don't walk with a limp or anything.. just can't do some of the things I used to. I could still keep up just fine as a carp--the injuries just forced me to develop different talents and skills.
I don't know very many guys that could go through 3 major injuries in 4 years that had me off work for upto 6 months at a time... and still be in business.
Challenges and difficulties only help us grow.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Don't know if you've seen the Recent movie Walk the line aboput johnny cash. But after all you put yourself through, the site of the saw in that movie will scare the h*ll out of you. They did a great job with that scene, I was puckered.
It was good. But the part where Johnny bound up the saw and all the sparks were flying ... that seemed overly dramatic.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
the site of the saw in that movie will scare the h*ll out of you
I couldn't watch it. Once they showed that kid pushing that wood, I had to fast forward past.Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
There's nothing to see. They don't show the accident happening. But you do see the brother lying in bed kinda bloody.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I will definitely be leaving the room for that scene... still a sore spot.
Here's one for you, My uncle worked at a saw mill for a while...
They took a guy to the hospital in the back of a pickup after losing the entire arm at the shoulder...
I'd say I can't even imagine... but that's what makes it scary... I can.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
I take it that you have learned how to sleep with your hand higher than your head!;)Been theretoo often
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I believe... I'd nearly forgotten. Did yours take? Still have them all?
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
wonderfully replanted, though two are shorter by the width of a saw kerf
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Congrats Piffin-- Did you send the surgeon a thank you letter-- he deserves every dollar.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Be careful guys. (Brought to you by the committee to ban tablesaws everywhere)
I'm in. and.... AMEN!
Imagine walking into a machine shop and see a machinist holding a piece of metal on the drill press?
To keep my fingers?
I'll donate $1000 to the guy or gal who comes up with a better way...
Great pics.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
$1.000.00?
I d-onate-d 25 years off hard earning money on 3-1/2 years of thinking, developing and testing 1000 ideas how to stop the tablesaw mentality.
Imagine that.
You know, It was nice to see someone looking for a better way.
Much better from the usual: I can't Imagine anything better.
Thanks for Imagine.
Edited 3/21/2006 10:35 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
Hmmm, Imagine that.
Being able to just lay that EZ rail on a sheet or a 2x and run the saw down it for a precision cut is the coolest even if someone never did anything else with the system. It is just such an easy thing.
Half tempted to let my eye roam to an 8inch saw for single cutting doors and 2x stock.
be wondering if an 8" dado blade could fit on a circular
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Anyone notice in the "cash" movie where he walks from the girls house and winds up waking up in the woods to Carps working on a house? Kinda minor but it was nice to hear all the hand nailing going on and no compressors. Keeping with the time of the movie.
Land of the boring 4/12 hip roofs...
Several things: "SAW STOP" F.H.B. 25th anervesary issue(1)
"Triped on a piece of trim" keep work area clean (I'm a slob personaly ) (2)
BE CARFUL OUT THERE !!!!!!!! (3)
Holy Smokes Lawrence...you sound dangerous!
Maybe I should be grateful (to myself) that I've always limited my hours.
I have had five stiches from a truss plate on my leg. Never shot myself. I cut my fingers slightly with a utility knive when I was young and stupid. Had to drop off an 11' roof once but was anticipating it before I went up.
I guess I don't like pain as much as you do!
For the record, I think Osha should ban all table saws. I don't own one. They scare me too much.
blue
For the record, I think Osha should ban all table saws. I don't own one. They scare me too much.
Blue. Imagine looking for 3 fingers on the ground and drive with 100 miles to get them to the emergency room in time.
They don't even have to be yours.
Imagine looking a young kit with one finger left.
Now Imagine: Me at the BORG looking at another young kid,
romancing the tablesaw.
That poor salesmen at the BORG. He almost call 911 on me.
That lucky kid. I told him to prove his manhood somewhere else and if he thinks that he can use a tool that was designed not to be forgiving...
Been afraid of a stupid tool, is very smart of you.
I agree-- Limit your hours, specialize... less accidents.
I was doing it all... cabinetry, drywall, tilesetting, trim, framing, windows-doors-siding- concrete forming and finishing, timber framing...even did a few Project Management stints... Doing a million things you never reach a comfortable stride.
That's amazing that you didn't get injured much Blue, but think about it. See, safety is profitable.
I had coffee with two friends that qualify for permanent disabilities (one has slipped into management-but his rotator is at 30% and knee needs replacement--he's 37). He specialized in interior rails, but ended up tripping down a staircase. Mind was on something else I guess. He worked with me for 6 of the most brutal years... During the estate work.
This, in my opinion is why trades should pay better--Danger Pay.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
I own one and use it frequently, but tablesaws scare the heck out of me too. Constant vigilence goes a long way when working with one. We also have a rule that if the table saw is out of the trailer, there had better be outfeed support set up and a good push stick sitting on the table.
I see dumb things going on with tablesaws all the time. Like a little benchtop saw sitting on the floor unsecured while a carp is bent over feeding 16' of stock through with no outfeed support. Or the hardwood flooring guy feeding his little strips through the same set up with no push stick.
Another one that makes me wary is routers. Big sharp bits moving at mindboggling speeds with no guards. That can be a recipe for disaster too.View Image
Wow! I've been terrified of my table saw & router ever since I got them...& I thought it was because of being female. Now I see that it's because of being ... SMART!
Being Terrified is not smart. Being respectful is. Being careful is. If you are terrified, you are in efficienct and will probably hurt yourself almost as surely as being careless. Table saws are good tools just be carefull and attentive.Good luck.
Table saws are good tools just be carefull and attentive.
Kirk.
I disagree on the above.
Can a human be perfect all the time?
Can the wood be perfect all the time?
I totally agree with you here. "Good luck"
Good luck.
Edited 3/22/2006 9:10 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
Thanks. I am slow, but I still have all my fingers. I tend to think through what I want to do before I hit the switch. So far, so good.
Yeah, "terrified" is too stong of a word for us tough guys. ;)
Seriously though, the last poster had a good point. Don't work scared, work smart. If I put a guy on a roof for the first time and I see he's quaking in his boots, I pull him right down. He's as dangerous up there as the fearless cowboy type. Gotta have your wits about you when working in a dangerous environment.
The good news is you're smarter than your tools, so you've got the upper hand. But a healthy dose of respect will take you a long way with power tools.View Image
Actually, I am very, very careful. I don't care that I am slow - it's my own work.
I am also very careful around my table saw and thats not always enough. I was freehand cutting some armstrong floor tiles and it kicked that tile back so fast it hit me in the upper thigh and the pills so hard it put basketball sized bruises on my thighs. I was curled up in the fetal position on the customers garage floor for 10 minutes felt like riverdance had just taken place on my crotch. Thank god they were at work.
So every one be sure to read and understand all the instructions that come with your power tools, don't forget the safety glasses. Some one with more brains than myself says this every weekend think it should've sunk in by now.You're entitled to sh!t.---Tony Soprano
How long had you been using the blade? Sounds like some adjustment was off but it's good that you could recover, even if your voice is a little higher than before. Cup check! Might not be a bad idea.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
It wasn't that old. I changed it twice during the whole floor job. The armstrong floor tiles were very hard on blades, they had a surface on them that reminded me of a formica countertop.
Needless to say no more freehanding with the tablesaw. It sucks that I have to learn everything the hard way. :)You're entitled to sh!t.---Tony Soprano
One word:
Sawstop.
http://www.sawstop.com
As far as banning dangerous tools, well, that would include just about everything, including pencils.
Anybody want to see what a razor sharp Marples wood chisel can do to a wrist, just let me know and I'll email the pics. Too gruesome to post here, I think.
6 cm long slice through the skin. Sliced right through the median nerve(all the way), and nicked 3 tendons. Man, those nerves growing back feel like getting zapped with a cattle prod at various intervals.
The thing is, when I was doing what I was doing, I remember asking myself, "Is this safe?" and the answer was "Yes." But somewhere along I must have shifted positions enough to make it NOT safe. Wasn't tired or distracted or rushed. It must have happened in that pico-interval of time of shifting positions slightly and before that little voice kicks in to say "Is this STILL safe?"Pete Duffy, Handyman
Pete, I'd also outlaw your chisels then!
Mine wouldn't even bruise you. I have to heat butter to chop it with mine.
blue
They say sharp tools pose less risk than dull tools. You have to apply less pressure, and they usually go where they're intended to go.
Of course, you have to keep body parts out of the path.
Keep the blood off them too so they don't rust.Pete Duffy, Handyman
They say sharp tools pose less risk than dull tools. You have to apply less pressure, and they usually go where they're intended to go.
Very good advice.
Few weeks ago I meet another
woodworker with one finger left. (Hartville Ohio)
Dull blade. kick back, take four.
Edited 3/23/2006 9:38 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
How does kickback result in lost digits? I can see lost teeth or eyes from the work piece flying back into your face...
Not saying it doesn't pose a risk of amputation, just wondering how that would happen.
Very easy. If your hand is pass the blade (between blade and fence) ...
Dino
I just returned from jlc live. While there I was looking over the Festool stuff.
Probably would have plunked down the $ and bought their system if I hadn't read the EZ reveiws here.
Do you do any shows with your contraption? I would love to see it .
jayzog.
I can't talk about the ez stuff here.
The stuff that you saw at JLC live are designed to be complimentary to the tablesaw. Not the same philosophy as the "Dead Wood Concept".
Call me at 732-259-9984 and we can talk about specific tools.
Here we can only talk/debate the methods and what to avoid.
YCf D
Edited 3/24/2006 3:25 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
Edited 3/24/2006 3:26 pm ET by dinothecarpenter
Jayzog, send dino a coffee before you call him. You might get a better price on the tool!
blue
Blue.
Are you coming over to the Fest?
YCf D
What fest?
Is there gonna be some decaf coffee there?
blue
No need to ban table saws. But it would be nice if the manufacturers all equipped them with that device that locks them mechanically when they sense flesh on the blade surface. Even if it drove the price up $100, what's $100 compared to severed fingers / hands? If i had to guess, i'd say the reason they all don't have it already, is that ther're too cheap to pay the inventor his licsensing fee. Guy deserves every penny he can make, can't believe all the manufacturers with all their engineers didn't come up with it first.
If I remember right, the guy offered to let the saw companies use the technology for free. All of the saw manufacturers decided it wasn't worth a few bucks more to make the saw safer. So after a few years of no interest, the guy takes it upon himself to get the saws made at the same factrories in taiwan that make delta, dewalt, etc., and market them himself. I hope it's working out for him. That should be osha mandated way more than those chintzy guards they've got now.
zak
Agreed. Funny how the Federal goverment butts into our lives when they usually don't need to, but in a case like this where they probably should, they sit on their hands. One of my worst fears is that my 4 year old son plugs any of my myriad of tools in when i'm not around. He's fond of trying to climb on my saws / welders etc... scares the crap out of me even though he's been told better. Must be ingrained into the male psyche, doing dangerous things. Kinda reminds me of the time i jumped out of my second story window in the middle of the night to go meet a girl when i was 14 or so........but then that's another story......ahh male stupidity knows no bounds.
What year(s) AMX(s)?
Mine was '69 390 4spd as a teen... gave it up years ago. I swear they know when you have an extra $.
Lotsa FUN, though.Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
Troy, have 2 (a Lime Green 70 and a White 68) here in Houston and one i bought off EBAY , (Blue 73) in Idaho i'm going to pick up in July. Here are a few pics of the 70 and the 73. http://www.amx-perience.com/AMCgallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=875
Everyone's gotta have a vice, mine are Muscle cars. Bet you had lots of fun in your 69, you ought to buy another. AMX's are still affordable (decent drivers under $10,000) compared with most other Muscle cars. And as you know they move out pretty good and now a days when you drive one , you can always count on a lot of thumbs up and admiring glances. Go buy one again, you'll thank me!
Scott Stubler
Just exactly did this turn into a thread about cars?
Someone asked me a question and i answered it. Too hard to comprehend?
4 Family members + 2 seats = nope.
I have an '88 Audi 90 Quattro that keeps me in the fun and hauls the kids and groceries with AC.
I had enough of chasin parts for that AMC in my early years. Drove it hard 'nuff to break BUNCHES of parts.
Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
What I recall is that the inventor tried to interest the saw companies in licensing his patent. When that failed, he tried to get legislation passed to force all the saw companies to use his device. When that failed, he found a company to work with a developed his own saws.
Anyone know what the replacement cartridges for those cost? Looks like you need a new blade and a new cartridge if anything happens. Anyone using their saws? I'd seriously consider one if they're quality tools, otherwise I'm going to buy a 66 or Unisaw sometime soon (hopefully older, used, not new).
I really wouldn't care what they cost since the only time you'd need to replace them is if you're about to sever your finger.
I suppose that's true if there's absolutely ZERO chance of a false activation. Otherwise it's worth knowing if they're $50 or $500 or what.
From the description, it would seem that the chance of false activation would be pretty close to zero - if the false activation was due to a defect in the equipment, I imagine it would be covered under warranty (something to ask customer service).
If you are cutting conductive materials (like possibly extremely wet lumber or soft metals), there is a keyed safety device de-activation to prevent false stops.
I think it's around $100 or less- again, it's been a while since I've read about it, and I tend to forget things pretty easily. I can't remember if it kills the saw blade or not though, I think the blade gets wedged in the brake device pretty firmly. I just looked at their website (<a href="">http://www.sawstop.com</a>), and it looks like the blade needs to be replaced too. Might have to think twice about using a Forrest.
Then again, if the system is as reliable as it seems, the thing will never go off until you stick your hand in there (or start cutting hot dogs). No prices are mentioned at the site.
zak
No prices are mentioned at the site.
If you click on "order now", the order page reveals the base price to be $2,799.00. There are a variety of upgrades and accessories also listed, and priced.
As far as needing to replace the blade after activation, Yes, you will. This is from the FAQ page: "Is the saw damaged when the brake system activates? - No. You will need to install a new brake cartridge and replace the blade. The change-out process takes about 2 minutes and requires the use of an Allen wrench and the blade wrenches (all supplied with the saw). The saw will then be ready for use.""he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
ur too late. do a google for "sawstop"
Somewhere, AMX-GUY, I have an artical on this saw. It was tested with a slab of beef. They claimed it worked as promoted. But once the saw was stopped due to a fleshy touch, something had to be replaced in the saw before the next cut. I think that part was almost 100 clams in cost!
But the real point in this thread, WORK SAFE! To me, the most dangerous cutting tool is the radial arm saw! Always work so that if a rotating cutting part, (saw blade, chain saw) brakes loose, the only part of the body that will be injured is your sholder, and or arm. I was taught, never to work with the centerline of you body in front of the tool you were using, always work from one side or the other. My wood shop teacher, back in the late 50's had an x-ray of a students skull, with a section of a 10" saw blade ( about one inch wide x four inches long) planted right in the middle of his carnium! Most impressive! That kid recieved an incomplete for his lifespan. Be safe, Pop
Pop, thanks for the info. $100 is a nice chunk of change, but considering the alternative it looks pretty cheap. I saw a news clip of the inventor using a raw hot dog to simulate a finger on his saw. It worked flawlessly, the casing was barely scratched and he moved the hot dog into the saw fairly quickly. I'm not sure if my saws can be retrofitted, especially my portable Dewalt, but if they can, i'll do it this year.
Good luck to you.
P.S. I'm currently running Hardi Plank siding on a 2 story addition off of pump jacks. Man do i hate the way those things sway, even after being braced off.
2 words.... SAWSTOP (or is that 1 word??). http://www.sawstop.comTFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
Do you own one of the sawstop saws?
I put quite a few miles on my Unisaw every month and have never had an accident, so I am scared that I am due!
Is the sawstop as good as a Unisaw or a Powermatic 66?
Do the electronics get messed up if your lumber is wet?
I know you can use an aftermarket fence, but is theirs any good.
I'll sell my Unisaw and purchase one of them if the reviews are good, a couple extra grand spent would be definately worth it -peice of mind knowing I'm likely to keep a full set of digits.
The SawStop was one of six 3HP cabinet tablesaws reviewed by Tools of the Trade a few months back. FWIW, I believe they also make a contractor saw in addition to the cabinet saw.
"SawStop and Laguna are the two saws that piqued my interest the most. Both were very well built and I am totally sold on the idea of a working riving knife and easily removable blade guard. SawStop's additional safety feature is just short of amazing—a real plus for an already excellent saw. But when push comes to shove, I'd go with the Laguna because of its built-in upgradability and the option of easily adding that sliding table I like so much. Old habits die hard."
It did better than I thought it would as I figured the main selling feature would be it's safety features, but it appears as though it held it's own with the other front runners. You can read the whole article for free here:
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleID=2317&position=2&type=article&partID=1View Image
Dieselpig.
I saw the SAWSTOP 2 years ago at the Atlanta International show.
The Safety feature of this tool is an extra bonus.
I consider the SawStop one of the best, (If not the best) invention in woodworking History. No commercial shop or school should be without it.
This "thing" can lower the insurance premiums for the entire trade.
5 B. a year in power tools related accidents.
Who pays for it ?
You be upset if I told you?
Hi Dino,Feel free to disagree. It's a free country.As to your points:Can a human be perfect all the time? NoCan the wood be perfect all the time? NoBut none of this matters. S**t happens. You can't prevent it, but you can develop good work habbits, and stand at the right place, use push sticks, magnetic feather boards, etc and do your best.Kind of like wearing a seat belt in a car.Kirk
Ok... here's the elaboration.
I was standing in the right place... I was being careful, I was using a push stick, with what I was doing--- didn't need the featherboard, well, it wouldn't have helped.
I had just gone through a separation, I had just worked 3 -18 hour days getting ready for the biggest photo shoot of my life thus far... "House and Home" and I was out in the shop working at 7 am...
It was about 9:30 am when it happened.
I was milling a number of 2x3's about 2' long ... enough that they were piling up on the right hand side. I'd cut 20 or so, then move them to the pallet.
I was done about 15 or so... was only piling them 3 high (staying safe--wouldn't want them to fall towards the saw blade), and as I reached over I set my hand on the table... thinking I was fine. I wasn't in the process of cutting... just reaching across to place the 2x3 safely on the other side.
My hand lifted slightly off the table... oops, too close to the blade.
I'll save you gory details, but I expected that when I messed up that I would be looking at the saw when it happened... I thought I would have been working. I thought I would have been doing something horribly wrong.
I was exhausted, I was on a high, and a low at the same time.
Don't work when you are tired... it's just stupid. That's when you get messed up... and when it happens you'd wish you haden't.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
I'm trying to understand Lawrence, so I can avoid something similar.
Were you stacking the parts on the opposite side of the table saw? Reaching over the blade?
Would you have avoided all problems if you were stacking the raw and finished stock on a table behind you?
blue
It was quite a while ago, but I never would have been leaning over the blade manipulating or trying to catch the piece before it fell after cutting....
I was reaching to the far side of the saw, for the next piece to mill. Probably down to the last few before re-loading the table.
Keep in mind I was beat... likely leaning on the table... as I reached towards the far side of the table with my right hand to get the next piece... wasn't paying enough attention to where the left hand was.
I wasn't looking at the blade and I wasn't cutting anything at the time of the accident.
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Lossing your level of alertness is the primary cause of most accidsents OTJ, IMO.Friend of minde had been doing fourteen hour days when he ran his fingers into a jointer - hypnoticly methodicly feeding it still after he ran out of lumber.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Feel free to disagree. It's a free country.
Thanks Kirk.
But none of this matters. S**t happens. You can't prevent it, but you can develop good work habbits, and stand at the right place, use push sticks, magnetic feather boards, etc and do your best...
If king Norm was wearing antikickback underwear...
S**t happens OK. I was hit by a young driver with 65 miles on a construction zone, few month's ago. That was an accident. I was lucky and I'm alive today.
At the emergency room, the guy next to me was asking the doctors how many fingers he lost.
He was pushing wood into the 5000 rpm 10" spinning blade.
You're telling me that was an accident?
Feather boards, push sticks, technique, guards, outfeed,sliding tables, antickick devices,riving knifes, ......If you can use all the safety devices on this stupid tool, you can't cut a piece of wood.
THIS tool is like trying to make an elephant to fly. Can we do it?
Yes. We can always strap the elephant with rocket boosters ...if needed.
The elephant may die. So what? S**T happens OK.
Edited 3/23/2006 12:30 am ET by dinothecarpenter
Hey Dino your English is getting better!"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
Morning Huck.
Thanks for the complimento.
YCF D
Hey Dino your English is getting better!
I noticed that too. I think he's fired up!
I might go get him a coffee....and maybe a shot of D-Mix...
blue
Lawrence ,Sorry about your "accident". I am pretty sure you didn't do it on "purpose". (That was for Dino) Actually the magnetic feather board would have helped, especially with the project you were doing. If you haven't checked them out yet, see the Mesa Vista Designs magnetic feather boards. With the steel fence and rollers, it would have blocked the blade from your hand.Working tired and or distracted is something we all know we shouldn't do, but sometimes we take that risk and we lose. Get well soon.Dino,Yes, I think that(your emergency room mate) was an accident also. Yes, if you put every safety device know to man on the saw, it would make it hard to cut. Many woodworkers cut wood very effectively with this tool day in and day out. Much easier than making an elephant fly. Is there a point to your rhetoric? Maybe selling something?Kirk
No, but I read a lot of woodworking magazines and the reviews have been excellent for the cabinet saw. My understanding is that they're coming out with a contractor's saw (might already be out). I would imagine a bench-top saw will soon follow if they sell enough of these things.I own a RIDGID contractor's saw (TS3650). Great saw, but I hate the plastic guard and splitter. Would MUCH rather have a riving knife and smaller guard so I can see what the hell I'm doing.TFToolfanatic (a.k.a. The man formerly known as "Toolfreak")
What's your nick name, Lucky? :-)
AHHHHHmmmmm I was feeling all oh woe is me and I just read your post I'm replying to .
Well I'm glad your still breathing. Man You have been beat up on the job.
And all of a sudden I don't feel bad at all.
I took a 45' fall out of a dead hickory and decided it was natures way of saying get a different job.(Many years ago)
Yeah... lots of us are pretty beat up from the years of abuse.
I guess it all evens out though.. people tell me I look 29 when I'm pushing 40, the shocked look when I tell them I have 4 boys and the oldest is 17 is pretty great.
Broken bones and lacerations heal, but when it comes down to it, working hard keeps you young and healthy. Part of why I am planning to move back to the city is so that I can get into the gym. This sales-paperwork-design work doesn't do much for the physique.
Here's the real sign you are getting old... not thinking twice about spending way too much money on a more comfortable bed.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Well, I was exaggerating a little about the number of fingers on the FHB staff, but a good number of us when I worked there had shaken hands with tablesaws. Don't do that. It hurts, it's expensive, and it upsets your spouse. Although in my case, it introduced me to the wonders of Demoral. Good thing you can't buy that stuff at CVS.
You've made two other excellent points. The first is fatigue. I have what I call my "fudge-it point". That's when I notice the little mistakes starting. Sometimes a snack and a cup of joe can add a couple of hours, but it's critical to know when to say "Fudge it," and go home.
The rounded push stick is a great point. I'd never thought of it. Thank you.
BTW, the Taunton shop now has one of the Saw Stop cabinet saws. The first weekend it was there, someone we all know and love got to try out its stop function.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Well Andy-- When the wound was fresh your comment helped. When you have maimed yourself and you are in the midst of a pity party--and you feel like a sub-human freak, it helps cushion the landing when you are reminded that it's not just you.<!----><!----><!---->
It's the whole indestructible youth, years of racing never put a scratch on me, but doing something that I felt I could do with my eyes closed was what did it eventually. The insult, the shame, the resulting inadequacies—that’s what plays with your head when you do something stupid that you will have to admire for the rest of your life. <!----><!---->
The big man was right when he was coaching Bruce Willis to take a fall…<!----><!---->
“Remember, that’s just pride ............with you—you fight through that....â€<!----><!---->
We have to keep a keen eye on what is important, what matters—what doesn’t. <!----><!---->
In hindsight it’s easy to discern what’s important, just after an accident like that it’s a bit more difficult.<!----><!---->
Thanks again Andy.<!----><!---->
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it!
Boy - Your description of the emotions surrounding an accident like this is right on.
About the maddest I ever got was sitting down to dinner with my extended family shortly after my tablesaw encounter, with my left hand wrapped in a cast. One person there, who never used a woodworking tool in his life, never mind made his living with them, made some comment about that being "a stupid thing to do." Well, sure, he was right, but he didn't have the right, if you know what I mean. If both of my hands had been working....Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
I use an empty 5 gallon paint pail under my miter saw as a trash recepticle for waste / scraps. It keeps the floor clean and at the end of the day, it's easy to either empty it into a trash bag or dumpster. A clean worksite not only looks better, it's much safer.........now if i could only get those pesky plumbers to keep the PVC pipes outta my way. Who out there hasn't skidded across those pipes like a bag of marbles?
Just a suggestion... maybe make a note in your post that the picture is quite graphic. I figured that it was, so I wasn't too surprised, but I wouldn't want anyone to be caught unawares.
-Don
thanks. deleted it.
Justin, Actually that photo is very valuable in that those with a loose attitude who do wear rings on the job may by viewing it shock themselves into sensibility.
I had a friend get a ring job not as bad as that but he was hospitalized over it and got the look of the finger back but not the full use.
So if I may as I had taken the liberty of saving that photo, repost it here in hopes of helping some poor ring wearing soul see the error of his ways.
WARNING! DUE TO THE GRAPHIC NATURE OF THE FOLLOWING PHOTO PARENTAL GUIDANCE IS RECOMMENDED.VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Edited 3/25/2006 4:40 pm ET by razzman
Thanks Razz.
I run a hardwood dimensional plan for few years.
One "similar" picture on each one of the machines make the guys think before they think of starting up the machines.
20-60 HP motors, 42" resaw- 16" straight line rip saws -
30" Gang rip saws with 10 blades- 36" face joiners with overhead feeding conveyors.etc etc.
All this machines was industrial type with 3 lines of defence.
One of the machines come with only two rows of antikick protection.
I have Jer. (the engineer) installed another 2 rows of antikick fingers the day before we have the first kickback from a 60 HP gang rip saw.
The white oak board destroyed the 3 rows and damaged the fourth one.
Without the 2 additional antikick rows I be half the man now.
Or double?
What made me think of that? A similar picture.
Thanks for re-posting the picture.
YCF D
The saw doesn't need to be running for you to get hurt. A few years back my brother, an electrical contractor, had just used his sawzall to cut a hole thru a plaster and lathe wall for an outlet. He laid the sawzall on the floor and fished the wires down the wall and out thru the hole when they became bound-up on something. He gives the wires a big yank, the wires unsnag, and his hand flies backward into the sawzall; blade goes thru the palm of his hand doing all kinds of damage and severing 2 tendons (that roll-up window-shade style to his elbow). The saw wasn't running so it was a puncture wound to the nth degree, no blood but lots of jagged damage because the cut wasn't a clean slice.
He was out of work about a year but it was years longer before he had full function of his hand again. The xray of his hand with the big white sawzall blade going thru it is priceless.
-Norm
There is one thing that drives me nuts about my accidents. That 1 second BEFORE!! they happen, I am thinking I shouldn't be doing what I am about to do.
That's probably true for most of us. The trick is to not take short cuts and to just use common sense. I'm a general contractor who does everything from framing to building cabinets and tile setting. In 15 + years, i've yet to break a bone, fall off a roof, etc.. I do get cuts and bruises every day but thats just the nature of the business. Frankly, it's the 1/2 inch OSB splinters under the nails that i hate the most. I'm always amazed when i see people doing stupid #### like removing safetys off nail guns and pinning back saw guards. Or shooting nail guns aimed back at their faces or someone elses. I cringe whenever someone wants to use my Skil Worm Drive that has never used one before. 99% of accidents are caused by stupidity....1% by acts of God, #### happens or whatever phrase you prefer.
>>"There is one thing that drives me nuts about my accidents. That 1 second BEFORE!! they happen, I am thinking I shouldn't be doing what I am about to do."
Same here. A little voice inside my head says "exactly how is this supposed to work without you likely getting hurt real bad?" Took me a while and learning the hard way too many times, but I've actually learned to listen to that little voice. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"