We had a something happen which brought up some questions in my mind.
The company I work for deliver trusses to a rural home. As is typical, the driveway was made for cars, not semi’s. The trusses are about 13′ wide so they hang way off one side of the truck.
An employee of the framer is trying to guide the driver into the site. The trusses that hang off one side hit an old board fence. About 20′ of the fence was damaged.
The HO wants the entire fence replaced. Patching it in won’t do – The new stuff won’t look weathered like the old (unpainted) boards.
I’m not sure what to think here. The HO has a point – a repaired section of the fence will look different. (I haven’t see the fence myself) But they HO also didn’t provide reasonable access to the site. And it WAS an old fence.
Just curious how your thoughts would run on this one…..
The prosperity as well as the decline of nations has always had a tax factor. Whatever the tax man wants, the tax man gets, including our liberty, should he so desire. [Charles Adams in For Good and Evil]
Replies
Boss-
As you can imagine, you're pretty much at the mercy of the HO now. But, for future situations, I'd tell your drivers not to make any attempts to deliver if there isn't proper access. If they do, they should have someome (GC or HO) sign a waiver for any damage to the property.
We used to dig swimming pools in Las Vegas with various pieces of equipment of differing widths, dependent upon access through the side yards. Some of these yards were mighty narrow (and seemed to get narrower with time as lot sizes shrunk and houses grew). Due to bucket capacity, etc., the smaller the machine, the more the excavation cost the owner. I don't know how many times people would gripe about paying for a 4' Bobcat to dig the pool, when there was a 5'-1" sideyard- they couldn't understand why we couldn't use a 5' Bobcat. We'd have them sign a waiver that they were responsible for any damage to the house of the block property line wall, if there was less than 1' clear beyond the width of the machine. Let's just say that alot of the "cheapskates" spent a whole lot more on stucco repairs than the would have to get the smaller machine to dig......lol.
Bob
"for future situations, I'd tell your drivers not to make any attempts to deliver if there isn't proper access"
We try to, but you can only push just so hard in these situations. Often times the GC or HO gets upset and tells the driver to either get the trusses into a jobsite or take 'em back and he'll get them elsewhere.
The waiver thing may or may not work - I don't really know. But I suspect it would be almost worthless in court, as the company is the so-called "expert" and knows whether or not the driver can get into the site or not.
I was more curious if you thought it was reasonable to expect to have the whole fence replaced, or pay for the depreciated value of the thing, etc.
BTW - I in no way have any say on what we do here- Was just trying to figure out what I thought was appropriate.When two egotists meet, it's an I for an I.
As far as whether the whole fence should be replaced or now, that's obvious- the damage should be fixed- not the whole fence replaced. But, what you have here is a HO trying to get a free fence out of the deal. I'm sure he'll withhold payment to the GC for the fence, who'll withhold it from your company- what can you do to avoid it- go to court? That's a bigger waste of time and money than re-fencing the entire neighborhood......lol.
Bob
I won't get into who is at fault.
But the HO is out of line with a request to replace the who fence.
First, the new fence will quickly weather and look like the old section in 6-12 months.
The only case where a whole thing is replaced and not patched is where the design/materials/artistic work is such as the patch would be a clear standout. I can't see this in a fence.
I think this is where insurance comes in, They the insurance will decide who at fault, how much damage and what they pay, or the contractor could buy a couple board and carp time be fix quick.
any chance there is a spot on the property where you could take out what you needed to replace, and put the new stuff where it would be less visable?
Sound's like you weren't there and haven't seen the fence, just curious if the guy seems genunely peeved about the fence, or is he a cheapskate looking for new fence on some elses nickel?
you mentioned paint, I'm assuming stain falls into that same catagorey?
Who's decesion was it to treck up the drive, the GC or your driver?
quantum merit
What's it worth?
Yes the driver made an error.
Yes the labour backing him up also made an error.
Yes the end result was a damaged fence.
Now what's it worth to replace a section of fencing, paint it all to make it all match and never mind the wish list of the HO?
Your company should make an immediate written offer to either do the above or offer a sum compatible with the cost of doing the above to the HO.
Not worth the cost of deductibles at this point in time.
If he accepts, your company does it or pays it and it's over.
If he turns it down you, you walk away and wait for the next move.
If he uses this incident to not pay you, you lien the property immediately.
If he tries to sue for more, you hand the casefile over to your attorney c/w the offer to settle.
In most jurisdictions the courts show favor to reasonable attempts at settlement.
Gabe
You took the words right out of my mouth. Dang, My mouth feels mighty empty right now..
Excellence is its own reward!
Would a beer help take away that "empty" feeling?
Gabe
Thanks, Don't mind if I do..
Excellence is its own reward!
Its not the HOs fault the driver can't back-up and the laborer can't direct. Someone made a decision to enter the property, thereby assuming the risk. If its my fence I want it fixed. If a patch looks like a patch, I don't want it.
Fence is cheaper than justice.
Eric
Get a few estimates for the Whole fence replacement cost. Then multiply the percent damaged times the total cost. Offer the HO that plus 5% if he does it in a week. Do it in writing to show how good you intentions were, just in case it goes to court. If he does take the cash, he will spend it on the house not the fence. Go to court and the jury will see that you are a nice guy,and the Lawyer will get more than the HO.
Are you absolutely sure the HO wants the entire fence removed? Did he request that in writing? To whom did he make his request?
I'd suggest that THE top dog from your plant go out to meet with the owner. Once there, he SHOULD NOT ask what the owner wants. He SHOULD ask, "What do think a reasonable settlement would be?" And he should only ask that after spending a little time trying for a friendly chat with the owner.
Things like this are common in the real estate biz. And they are often blown out of proportion by relayed messages and initial bluster and ire.
It's always worth a try, but THEN: What Gabe said...
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I don't know Boss: In NJ, most all of the lumberyards, concrete suppliers, quarries, etc. that I dealt with had a disclaimer saying they were not responsible for damage caused when asked to deliver materials beyond the curbline. It's the customer's responsibility to provide access. Fixing the fence would be a good gesture though, but not the whole thing.Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
What're you doin' in NJ Andy????
I'm not in NJ now, but I did live and/or work there until 7 years ago. Mostly in Warren County.Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
I understand that and have signed such waivers. But in this case, isn't the customer the contractor. If I'm the homeowner and my fence got wrecked through no fault of my own, but for the negligence of a contractor or truss company or whomever, then I'm with EBORG2. I would want it fixed. Let the two of them work it out as to who pays.
I may or may not be more reasonable than this HO, depending on the way I was treated. ie Treat me right at the outset and I probably have no problem accepting a patch and tossing it up to "stuff happens"