I live in a small house that has seen some questionable work over the years by previous owners.
The original structure itself is quite small. It was built sometime in the 20’s. What concerns me is a wall which divided the main floor into a hall and main room, has been removed at some point. Judging by some of the work that the previous owners did, I’ll bet they didn’t have permits or inspection done on all their jobs.
The wall which existed at one time ran north south (see attached image) next to the staircase. Now the house itself is not very wide so it very well may not have been a supporting wall, but I would sleep better at night knowing that was the case.
The original structure of the house is 15’ x 23’. It is two stories high and a basement with brick foundation. The exterior is a brick veneer, and the framing is the old thicker style of framing. Thicker wood but greater spacing between joists.
I’m probably just being a little paranoid about this.
Replies
I'd get someone who knows structural stuff to check it. The joists almost certainly run "across" the house and the removed wall might well have been supporting the ends of the joists ending at the stairwell.
It is possible that floor loads are now being transfered through the stair casings and stair "structure" itself.
It's amazing how tough old work can be, but I'd have it checked out, myself.
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You need to do some exploratory demolition -- probably holes in the ceiling -- to find out where the ends of the joists are and what's holding them up. Does the second floor sag at all alongside the stairs where the wall went away? A proper job would have replaced the structural function of the wall there with a beam, and the ends of that beam would require support all the way to the ground. At the top end of it in the picture, that could be a column buried in the stair structure. The other end would either have to run all the way to the outside wall or have another beam parallel to the joists to carry the load to the left and right walls. If that were done, there might be some evidence of plaster patching in the ceiling.
-- J.S.
No evidence of floor sagging upstairs. You make a good point as the wall alongside the stairs appears new. I can see the load being transferred through this wall. Underneath it there is another new wall. I wondered why they added it because leaving it out would have given the basement the effect of more space.
There is new drywall throughout the house.
During a windstorm is it normal to 'feel" the wind on the house? I don't want to say it rocks or sways, it doesn't, but during a very heavy windstorm you can feel the house rebound.
Hmmmm..... Some slight vibration would be normal, but I have no way to feel what you're feeling when the wind blows. Where is this located? Perhaps someone here can recommend somebody there to check this out in person. Did you get a home inspection before you bought it?
-- J.S.
You can feel while in bed - on the top floor.
Yes we had the house inspected. But I doubt a home inspector would have picked up the fact the wall had been removed.
Edited 1/14/2004 9:12:53 PM ET by ASENNAD
"You can feel while in bed - on the top floor."
We have strong winds here in the winter and the house deflects VERY slightly during the strongest gusts. Wooden structures do that.
"Yes we had the house inspected. But I doubt a home inspector would have picked up the fact the wall had been removed."
More to the point, what was disclosed to you by the previous owner at the time of sale? In the states where I've owned houses, you have to disclose whether or not work was done and whether or not it was permitted. Did they?
I think I'm confused. Maybe just me, but I need a bit more information. Where was the wall that was removed? You say it was parallel to the stairs, and I'm assuming it was more or less in the middle of the house? But you also mention that the wall beside the stairs appears to be new, and that there is a wall below it in the basement? Am I interpreting this correctly?
Sounds to me like the wall alongside the stairs was built to support the floor joists so that the other parallel wall could be removed. And the wall in the basement was put in to support this new wall. If so, you're probably fine, and the only issue was the slightly longer span of the floor joists, which could make the second floor a bit more springy.
But I'm not sure I'm interpreting this correctly; can you show where the wall was removed on the drawing, and which one was the new one?
You can see that there was a wall about two and a half feet out from the staircase by the work done on the hardwood floor - and from what a neighbour told me. It would have made for a very narrow hall. How long it extended I can't tell.
The wall next to the stairs may be new, maybe not, I am not really sure. Going to cut a few small holes and inspect the joists.
If you're wondering whether the wall that was removed was load bearing, try lookind at the framing for the first floor. My house had a wall that was removed (layout similar to yours with the removed wall running alongside the staircase and maybe 6 feet away from it) and a beam installed to compensate for removing the wall. The framing of the first floor is beefed up where that wall used to be. Maybe you'll see something similar in your framing.
Also, is the staircase enclosed with a wall on the inside edge? If it is, that wall may be the real load bearing wall. If it is an open staircase (no wall on inside edge) and the wall that was removed was load bearing, there are a lot of floorjoists that now are transferring their load to maybe a doubled up joist heading off the middle joists at the staircase. Not sure if this is clear to you- maybe someone else could clarify it better. Anyway, does the staircase have a wall on the inside edge or not?