Hi There. I’ve been a carpenter/maintenance/handyman for 9 years and am somewhat fed up with the business. I’ve considered getting my GC license, but i’m not convinced that it’s the right move for me. I’d love to hear from some home inspectors out there about how you all started and what your likes/dislikes about the business are. Specifically:
Are franchises the way to go?
How about finding a mentor to apprentice under?
What are your strategies for marketing your services?
Thanks in advance,
Earl
Replies
I do HI's in NWOhio & SW Mich.
Are franchises the way to go?
A lot of variation in quality and approach. Some franchises supposedly teach HI's to downplay problems to get more business through RE agents. I don't have direct experience with that, myself.
How about finding a mentor to apprentice under?
Check with local inspectors, esp ASHI members
What are your strategies for marketing your services?
Way to much to answer here.
Some resources for you: http://www.ashi.com/ the leading HI trade association.
http://www.inspectionnews.com especially the forums there
http://www.midwestinsp.com/ The HI school I went to, I thought it was very good.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
I used to inspect in Anchorage AK. I am very glad to be out of the buisness. I simply could not stand being pushed around by 2 or 3 unethical R E agents every day.
I was a damm good inspector, and that was a problem with some agents. I informed people accuratly about the condition of the homes, this caused some home deals to fall thru.
I was always polite to Re agents but did not suck upp to them . Many agents have big egos that need to be continually inflated. Not a good marketing move on my part , but I always slept well at night.
Many inspectors market their services to Realtors. I always thought this was unethical since I never worked for them (99% of the time you are working for a potential home buyer)
Have you picked up from the tone of my writing that I don't think too much of RE agents. To be fair , there are good agents out there, but they are few and far between
Tim
If I understand your post correctly, I think you've noticed a business opportunity. I don't know much about the inspection business, but if all inspectors work for RE agents, then don't you think the knowledgably consumers would be interested in an inspector that looks out for them? Don't waste time marketing yourself to the agents when they really don't want your services. I know you were not looking for advice, but I thought I might share.
Jon Blakemore
Jon
I more or less agree with you. The only problem is a inspector could starve without realtor referals. Not a lot of truley knowledgable buyers out there. most buyers just hire whoever their agent recommends (don't you see a bit of a problem with this practice).
In the state of AK there is even a clause in the offer to purchase contract (put out by MLS) that allows the seller to not allow the buyers inspector on the property. How would your common home seller have a clue to exclude a particular home inspector from a their home? You got it , their RE agent.
I once mentioned to the President of the local realtors group that I would like to see a law like at least one other state has that prohibites agents from recommending home inspectors. I never did another inspection on a house where his firm was involved.
Ethics and real estate agent is sort of like oil and water.
tim
"... I would like to see a law like at least one other state has that prohibites agents from recommending home inspectors."
Don't know if the state you mention is PA, but that is effectively what we were told when buying. We had our own realtor helping us find our first home, and we asked for reccomendations. She refused. Don't remember if she said it was the law or not. She at least explained how it would be unethical for her to give an opinion. She said the best she could do was give us a handful of names, and told us to do a little checking on our own. After finding out about ASHI, and some other similar info through the internet, that input was invaluable.
If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.
Bob, thanks for the info on the HI sites. I'm sure they will help.
To All:
There seems to be a lack of respect (generally) for this profession. I can see in some areas where there is little oversight how certain HI's could get all the business by being yes-men. Where I live (Western NC), RE agents can't recommend an HI outright, but each firm has a list of inspector that they have worked with in the past, and that list is what is given to the buyers. My girlfriend works as an agent, and she says the only guys who get blackballed are the hacks who overlook everything. Some guy buys a house, discovers that the furnace doesn't work, the roof leaks and there is a termite colony in the basement, etc. He turns around and blames the agency as well as the seller, gets sour on the whole thing and does business with another firm from then on. So, actually it's in the best interest of the RE firm to only deal with guys who know what they're doing.
I've also heard that now some sellers are getting a pre-sale inspection to avoid surprises while the house is under contract. I know this would be dicey for an HI because you know the buyer will have an inspection (by a competitor) down the road. Has anyone dealt with this situation? I wonder if the RE firms could recommend someone for this situation. Could be an untapped market.
Thanks, all.
Earl
Earl, good points.
I've also heard that now some sellers are getting a pre-sale inspection to avoid surprises while the house is under contract. I know this would be dicey for an HI because you know the buyer will have an inspection (by a competitor) down the road. Has anyone dealt with this situation? I wonder if the RE firms could recommend someone for this situation. Could be an untapped market.
Most HI's have considered that market, a few have tried to push it, I don't know of any who have continued to do so.
I have heard that the problem isn't so much second guessing by another HI (although that is in one's mind, of course.) The problem is that the seller than hands out your inspection as part of the marketing material and you start getting calls from every tom dick and harry about that house. You may be able to convert some of those calls to additional inspections, but not many and there are much better and more productive ways to spend your time.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
I'm really curious how you guys advertise? I found a really good inspector by default. Someone made an offer on a house before we could. After they backed out they gave us a copy of the home inspection they'd hired. He did an incredible job, found some structural problems. I kept the copy and later hired the guy and spent 3 hours w/ him going through an older house we were looking at. Learned a lot, found a lot of problems, was still almost stupid enough to buy the house, but that's another story.
I've since seen inspection reports from several people, none are nearly as good as his. He gave us about a 12 page report in a binder w/ everything broken down by area and catagory. Even turned on the furnace in July to make sure it worked (I would have never thought of that), found problems too.
Sorry, long winded, but best money I ever spent. But, had I not happened to see his earlier report, I'd have never heard of him. I most likely would have hired one of the other bozo's I've seen that give you a single spaced one sheet type written report that is almost meaningless. Or the one who inspected my parents house who just sat down w/ dad and went down a list: 'What type of foundation does this house have?', 'What type of roofing?', 'Is the insullation adequate?'. 20 minutes she was in and out, took dad's word for everything, and ripped a potential buyer off in the process. She never even looked in the electrical panel, furnace closet, attic, crawlspace, ect..
Never understood why home inspectors don't advertise. A radio spot or add by the real estate section seems like it'd pay off. Something to the effect of "Buying a house is a huge decision, make sure you make the right one. Let me inspect your new house before you buy to help avoid those nasty surprises. 'Honey, the furnace doesn't work!" A few adds and professional reports should go a long way to keeping busy.
Have any of you attempted advertising? How? Does it Pay?
He gave us about a 12 page report in a binder w/ everything broken down by area and catagory. Even turned on the furnace in July to make sure it worked (I would have never thought of that), found problems too.
Reports used vary widely, the shortest used in my area by competitors runs about 8 pages; I use a "narrative style" (each report is individually prepared - not just a multipart checklist) that typically runs 30 - 40 pages.
There are 3 ring binder type reports that run many pages, but they have info to apply to every type of house and component and for any one house a lot is inapplicable.
Some inspectors just list problems but won't categorize them as to seriousness - a brokemn switch plate, say, ranks the same as a live exposed wire dangling above the crib.
There are 3 equally important areas of home inspecting.
Technical knowledge - at a generalist level, but you have to have apretty good idea what you're looking at in each system;
Communication skills; &
People skills - pyschology.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Been a while since I looked at it, but he ranked everything as to seriousness.
I remember an X was a serious defect. That first report I saw had one X 'The roof rafters are not built to code, are not built in a professional manner.
/ Was a defect that should be fixed because it was a saftey issue, such as putting GFI outlets in the garage, kitchen, ect..
- Were cosmetic issues
He even had a catagory for things you may wish to do. Such as 'electrical service is up to code, but you may wish to consult an electrician to upgrade to a 200 AMP service.'
Really impressed, he opened the panel box, ect.. Had a friend buy an old house w/ an upgraded service. His inspector didn't open the box. Later found out there were only 2 wires powering the entire house. All 110 was spliced under the insulation in the attic from one line, and all 220 from another. Several empty pieces of conduit from the box to the ceiling.
A lot was 'legal warning stuff' covering himself that he couldn't see what was in the walls ect.. Some of his suggestions on what you may want to do, such as a suggestion of a better way to route the dryer vent were good ideas and worth doing.
Can't imagine not catagorizing things as to seriousness. Guess it's one good way to pigeon hole someone into the BOZO camp.
Sounds like you put out a good report. His were also individually put together so under furnace it only covered the type of furnace actually in the house ect. which was helpful.
Bob
Surprised to see me here? LOL
A nine year carpenter wants to tell folks about the condition of their homes
that are for sale.
Thats what I've been talking about and most of the inspectors I've met. Serious azzholes. Bob, from your posts I KNOW your one of the really good ones but MOST arent! Seems they get into it for the fast money.....and it is fast ....I know cause my wifes a top broker for almost20 years and she hates "most" of them as much as I do. It'd be nice to have well versed inspectors like yourself doing REAL inspections other then inspectors that take that two hours and run things down for their check as I've experianced over and over. So here we have another guy being in the biz for nineyears wanting to tell folks how he's an expert. Applause appreciated for him! Cant stomach these guys!
Be well
Namaste
andyYou don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Easy Andy- he was talking about finding a mentor to apprentice under and valid inquiries as how to approach the trade. What would you recommend he do? Half of good livin' is staying out of bad situations.
Primal screamers make better lovers.
rez
Mentor? I'd go with Bob.....he seems to me to be an upstanding articulate HI. He's my first choice. Personally I think in any trade one needs to know all the in and outs as Bobby seems to. They are far and few between in my experiance and I experiance alot between my spec houses and my wife as a top real estate broker of almost 20 years. I worked for a HI for a while on his own house and he said he wanted to sell me his biz cause he wanted to retire. He said I'd be perfect. I said I wasnt really interested after much thought. Seemed like easy money but I was afraid I'd lump up and stop doing renovations and restoration work......I passed. I kinda know my own boundries. Just love workin' with my hands too much.
Be a wall
Namaste
AndyYou don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Thank you very much for the kind words.
Some folks might not be aware that Andy and I had a little difference of opinion awhile back.
It really means a lot to me to get that compliment from a man of such character and who does such great work.
BTW, Your Ram Dass quote: Is that from "Be Here Now" or more recent work of his? It reminds me of a lot of what Pirsig said in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Bobby
Its recent. I spend a lot of time with Ram Dass. Nice to know you know him. Most incredable being I ever met!
PS.Check out the site and take a look at the Ram Dass library at Omega. I have rolls of film I shot this year of Ram Dass being wheeled in there for the first time and I asked the architect chick if she wanted pictures of her and RD in front. She was so happy to oblige me. Still havent developed them yet. I think I'm saving it for New Years presents. That one shot of Ram Dass and Krishna Dass are priceless. Maybe you migh want to join us up at Omega (http://www.eomega.org) at the end of the summer in 2003 for the week. My most incredable week of the year each year specially at night during Kirton.People come from all over the world. Its a secret so dont tell anyone......shhhhhh
Check out Krishna Dass's newest CD....Incredable....Ty on tablas is incredable!
Be a wall
Namaste
ydnA
Namaste
Love to you and yours
Andy
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Break out of frames Here
You don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 12/7/2002 1:20:54 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
Earl, been there did that. Work was slow so I thought all the years spent working on peoples houses I could get paid telling them what's wrong. First thing I did was put together a good report system with the help of a cheesy manual I purchased on-line and other reports as my guide. Then I made a brochure to leave in RE offices. I did two inspections and the very first one turned me sour of the whole ordeal.
In a small attic space I showed the young couple buying the house where there had been a fire. Long story short it killed the deal and the listing agent called me irate wanting to know what I told them. Basically I told her I didn't start the fricken fire, just showed them where one had been one.
As I see it with most h - i business is the h-i need to keep the R-a happy so they can keep their name on the refural list. The do that by not finding to much wrong with the house that they are inspecting. So the home owner can get as much for their house and the R-a make more money. R-a hands out a list of lap dog H-i the ones that will miss most of the problems. The same problem with getting the list from the bank. The bank wants the home buyer to buy the house for 250k not 150k for the home. why then the home buyer will need another 100k to fix it up later after the new home owner finds all the problems. It is not in the best interest for bank or the restate agent for the h-i to find all the problems.
A insurance agent gave me a refural list of H-i that list did not have any of the same H-i that the R-a or the bank list.
In my experience (8 years in the biz) you can no more generalize about the relationship to HIs and RE agents as you can about any other group of people,
There are HI suckups who view the RE agent as a primary concern - they tend to sugar coat stuff.They also tend to get sued alot and go out of business. There are rugged individualists who "don't give a damn about the RE agent" - they tend to exaggerate and make mountains out of mole hills They tend to go out of business because people wise up to their hoopla. There are HI's who keep a sense of perspective and present the information they develop objectively, neither exaggerating nor sugar coating, but calmly giving the buyer the information they need to make an informed choice.
In my area the last group predominates - the first and second group people don't last long.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Do HI's need to be licensed or registered?
Where do HIs receive certification/training?
I assume there are "associations" of HI's.....are some better than others?
What does it entail for one to become a HI?
How much does it cost?
What equipment is needed to be a HI?
What are the fees charged for an inspection?
Maybe I'm interested!?
.......................Iron Helix
IH:
Do HI's need to be licensed or registered?
It varies from state to state - there's a list and description at http://www.ashi.com/customers/regulations.htm
Where do HIs receive certification/training?
There are a number of "schools" out there. I went to the Midwest Inspectors Institute which I felt was very good. There's an outfit called ITA which I hear very good things about but I don't have direct experience with it. You need to have a good back ground in residential construction and repair. The schools can help fill in gaps, and are very helpful at training in the process of doing an inspection.
There are a number of schools which are connected with other products: franchises, reporting systems etc. I don't know anything about most of them; the ones I talked to back in the early 90's when I was looking for a school didn't impress me much. I would look skeptically on any school that makes you a "certified" inspector. That designation is meaningless to the informed. (Many places "certify" inspectors solely on the basis of a fee paid.)
And continuing ed, of course. I'm going to the annual ASHI convention in Jan in Orlando (New Orleans last year, vegas the year before ...:) 3 days of continuous seminars in a wide range of subjects. (Personally, I don't spend my evenings going out to dinner or holding down one end of the bar and smooze with a bunch of great inspectors from around the country who I've gotten to know, but I've heard others do that sometimes {G}) I also have monthly meetings and con ed stuff through various sources.
I assume there are "associations" of HI's.....are some better than others?
The American Society of Home Inspectors http://www.ashi.com is the oldest and largest of them; the National Association of Home Inspectors http://www.nahi.com (I think) is probably second. I'm a member of ASHI, myself. It best suits my needs, including name recognition in my area. Many people love it, some hate it. It has 6000+ members. (Its estimated there are 20,000+/- home inspectors around the US, plus the moonlighters.)
There's a new trade association out of PA which I'm very leery of; it's founder has a troubling history and communications with him have left a bad taste in the mouths of many. (Go to the http://www.Inspectionnews.com forum and search for NACHI)
There are several state based associations that I don't know anything about. CA has CREIA, there's one in TX. I think someone at InspectionNews is developing a list.
What does it entail for one to become a HI?
I don't know how to answer that; there are many discussions on point at the inspection news site
How much does it cost?
"It?" A recent article in the ASHI Reporter analyzed typical costs -it varies widely from inspector to inspector, but if I recall it can typically cost about $125 - $150 to get to the site's doorbell - i.e., to cover operating costs.
Starting off: Another source of income (augmentation) for 2 years.
What equipment is needed to be a HI?
Minimum: Brain, eyes, experience, some skepticism, curiosity, a good flashlight (NOT a mag light, they aren't that good compared to some - check out Streamlights), outlet tester, probe, ladder(s), business cards.
Other important stuff: good outlet tester - ($200 & up), tic tracer, wiggy, CO testers ($400 & up), gas sniffer, electric screw driver, laser thermometer, quick-read thermometer, digital camera, back up flashlight and other equipment, basic tool box; coveralls, respirator (I like a full face), pepper spray (animals in crawls - angry people), reference books, laptop and portable printer, E&O insurance, lawyer, accountant, broadband internet connection for research and keeping up and learning (and of, course, time to cruise the construction forums), a ready smile and a thick skin (just because of the hornets, of course {G}), marketing materials and time to use them, capacity to tell (and listen to) HI war stories, another quick-read thermometer because you left one way the hell and gone where it's just not worth going back for it; ....
Absolutely necessary: subscription to Fine Homebuilding! (Hey, Andy E, about that renewal notice .... What? Preaching to the choir? Yeah, I guess so, never mind!)
What are the fees charged for an inspection?
Not enough! For the potential liability incurred, the seasonal variations in work available, the consumer questions and complaints, book keeping, etc, the fees are generally too low. I believe the national average is something like $275.
Do not do this math: (275-125) * 3 [a day] * 5 [days a week] *48 [4 weeks vacation!] It just doesn't work that way.
150*300 (median # of inspections/year for a typical established inspector) is more like it.
Maybe I'm interested!?
Vell, hop up on de couch and tell me about your mother ....{G}
As other messages in this thread indicate, many have tried it and hated it. Many of us can't think of anything we'd rather do. I never wake up regretting that I have to go out and do some inspections.
On one level;, it can be a kind of lonely existence; you deal with a lot of people, but it's different people every day and only/mainly in a professional capacity. You can't chat about the jackazz driver who almost ran you off the road or last night's whatever show floats your boat. If you really like and need the comradery of the work site, you might not like being an HI.
OTOH, you get to meet new people and see interesting things everyday and get to have some fascinating experiences: a couple of weeks ago an inspection was cut short because the owner and his bodyguard (both armed) got nervous when the tenant unexpectedly showed up! They knew him, I didn't. I packed up and left. (Remember the required capacity for war stories?)
I've made a number of good friends; other inspectors, some tradesmen. clients, etc.
Some inspectors in your area will be probably be willing to take you along on an inspection or two to get a first hand look
Hey, if you need an inspector in NW Ohio ....
Bob Walker
Paradigm Inspections
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
I forgot to mention: it's a pretty full field with a lot of turn over. In my area, there are probably about 20 of us here year in and year out. Each year when the new phone books come out, about 10 new ones show up, and about 10 have disappeared.________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Well I've read this thread four times................still interested, so the ASHI link will be explored. I believe my background fits your description of a workable knowledge base.
So here I begin.
A Very Big........THANK YOU! .............to you, Bob, for your imput, information, and candid explanations of the working environment.
With Best Regards.......................................Iron Helix
IH
You're entirely welcome - I just read your profile, looks pretty good except for being an for that Libra thing <G>
Please feel free to email or post here with any questions.
I don't know any inspectors from southern IL, but can give you the names of some real good folks in the Chicago area.________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Robert
Wasnt Abe Lincoln a home inspector in Illinois? Or did he just fug up cherry trees and free a buncha folks??????
Be a wall
Dont get floored
Namaste
andyYou don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hmmm. I seem to recall he studied his slate by firelight, so he didn't do much of a job on checking the electrical!________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Bob, part of the contract for selling my home gave me the option of repairing any descreptencies or negotiating thier value off of the sale price. Mt previouse experience with HIs' had been as the contractor called upon to make repair or corrections to homes before the closings, to make them acceptable to the buyer and mortage lender. Not a good experience, since much of what I did should have been grandfathered because of the age of the homes.
One comment this particular HI made to my wife was about the condition of my furnace and water heater. He did not generally see those appliance as clean and well kept as mine, so what was I trying to hide? Fortunately my wife is more diplomatic than I would have been. She explained my construction, remodeling, and maintenace professional background to him and ask is there was anything wrong with a clean and properly operating appliances.
All in all the young couple that purchase the house got a lot of bang for thier bucks, and a complete homeowners manual that covered routine maintenace, seasonal maintenace, and complete product literature for everything left in the house.
Since his "pass" rating did not impact my sale price, I saw no reason to purchase his report.
After reading so many of your replies to post on this forum, I must say that you are a breed apart and well above what I have experienced with local home inspectors. My hate is off to you sir.
Dave
One comment this particular HI made to my wife was about the condition of my furnace and water heater. He did not generally see those appliance as clean and well kept as mine, so what was I trying to hide?
In partial defense of the HI, I also get a bit suspicious when I see something unusually neat and clean. Remember, >99% of the furnaces and water heaters we see range from a bit raggedy to very dirty and "unkempt."
But, I try to elvaluate the component and its condition in light of everything in the house. Usually, when I see a very clean furnace, one of those ones, for example, that is say 10 years old but looks brand new, I also see that everything else is very well maintained, and my suspicions are allayed and I will then comment on what a well maintained furnace it seems to be.
For reasons that I can not comprehend, there are some technically good inspectors who refuse to say anything good about a house. Their position is that they are being hired to find problems and that the buyer already knows the good stuff because they decided to buy it.
I and many (most, I hope) HI's feel our job is to evaluate the house, which means giving credit where credit is due; and, if a client can't recognoze a poorly maintained furnace for example, they won't be able to recognize one that is very well maintained.
Unfortunately, there are so-called HI's who really don't belong in the business.
Is there any chance the HI could have been joking (badly?)
Grandfathering rules and what gets called out vary, to some extent, from state to state. In some states, for example, GFI's "missing" under current codes are required to be called a deficiency regardless of when the home was built.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Robert
Funny about the furnaces being clean. the house I sold had a three year old top of the line furnace in perfect shape. That one dildo HI I ranted about came in with one of those mirror thingys on a stick and claimed he saw "deposits" on the side of the furnace walls. Scared the hell out of my backed out buyers. When I bought my old house I'm in now....I walked down into the rubble rock dirt floor basement and took a gander at the totally rusted out furnace with water below it. Didnt bother me. The water I know came from outside. Imagine what the HI's said to all the past years worth of people that wanted to buy this house. So far that rusty ol' thing is keepingthis house warmer and my (gas) heating bill is pretty reasonable. I agree about clean areas being suspicious. The house I sold had water in the basement issues ......the paint on the walls were very peeled. "I left them that way"! Tempted to clean em up but that seemed off to me. The issues mainly were.....dont clean out the gutters, then you get water in the basement and that was the honest reason. The woman that sold me the house had French drains put in cause she always had water down the basement....this made the HI suspicious. The old lady was falsely sold the French drains. All I did was keep the gutters clean and never had one drop of water down there. The minute I let that slide water came through the walls.
Be a wall
Namaste
AndyYou don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Washington was the one with the cherry tree deal. Half of good livin' is staying out of bad situations.
oops....
he didnt free anyone did he? Did he start that state? You know D.C...although thats not really a state is it...maybe just of mind....oiy
Be free
Namaste
AndyYou don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"As I see it with most h - i business is the h-i need to keep the R-a happy so they can keep their name on the refural list. The do that by not finding to much wrong with the house that they are inspecting. So the home owner can get as much for their house and the R-a make more money. R-a hands out a list of lap dog H-i the ones that will miss most of the problems."
Yes, also the RE agent does not want to party to a lawsuit becaue the inspector that THEY RECOMMENDED did not find serious problem in the house.
"The same problem with getting the list from the bank. The bank wants the home buyer to buy the house for 250k not 150k for the home."
The bank does not want to lend 200k on house that has 100k in undisclosed problems. When the HO finds them out and then realizes that they can afford the repairs and they try temporary repair and the real damage gets worse. After a few years the mortgage is forclosed and by this time takes $150k in repairs. The bank is not in the RE or repair business. Then only want to deal in money.
It is not in their best interest to lend money on this house.
Bob, I recently sold my home of 32 years. The buyer had A HI , that he accompanied on the inspection. I was to get a copy of the report within 3 days of the inpection. My realestate agent called and said there would be no report. The house "passed", whatever that meant.
There was at least one defect that should have been written up if only a one line report, but because the house "passed", nothing was written at all. I corrected the defect anyway, but it sure made me wonder about the quality of the inspection. The HIs' business card was left in the house, so I called to inquire about what he commented on to my wife at the time of the inspection. His reply was " if you want a report, it will cost you $$$". The whole thing left a bad felling for me.
I am sure that much of the annimosity toward Home Inspectors come from just this sort of thing.
Comment, or thoughts on how you guys can clean up your image?
Dave
Comment, or thoughts on how you guys can clean up your image?
There are some pretty, ah, limited HI's out there, and I have no idea of what it means that a home "passed." I spend some of my time explaining to people that an HI isn't a "pass/fail" process - it's an evaluation of the visible parts of the house and its components.
(FWIW, in most areas, there is no obligation that the seller get a copy of the report. I understand that is the practice in a few areas. Please note that as an HI I work for the buyer and only the buyer. I don't have any obligation to say anything or provide any information to the seller. Most of the industry Standards of Practice or Code of Ethics require that the HI keep the information confidential unless the client otherwise consents. Many home inspectors have a strong attitude that they won't provide copies to the seller no matter what. I do if my client requests it and see it as a matter of serving my clients needs.)
My personal view is that licensing of HI's should help the industry's image; in most states anyone can be "a home inspector." IMO, a good licensing law would set a high bar for qualifications and knowledge.
It would also set a Standards of Practice: what do you do, what don't you do, what do you report. See, e.g., http://www.ashi.com/customers/standards.htm
There are some pretty strong feelings both ways about licensing, of course.
The anti-licensing folks argue that the market will eliminate the bozos. The problem with that is a lot of people will get some pretty crummy inspections as the market does it's "evaluation," and even then, an efficient market requires an educated consumer. It is rare that people see more than a couple of home inspections in their lives.
And the practical reality is that anyone sitting around at the party who wants to get into a detailed discussion about the last inspection went and what went on is going to be pretty lonely!
A good argument against licensing is that in some states the real estate industry has gotten control or tried to get control of the process. A very bad idea, in my opinion.
Most HI's come from the construction trades. It might be hard to believe, given the genteel nature of the FHB boards, but there are a few folks in this industry who have some strongly held opinions! The image and professionalism of the HI business and what that means is a pretty ferociously debated subject in the ASHI (private) forum.
Part of the problem (although this doesn't sound like the situation you experienced) is managing expectations in clients and in the trades. A very common complaint HI's get is "I was having such and such done ang my xyz contractor found a problem and told me you should have caught it."
Sometimes (rarely for me, knock on wood): "yep, I should have seen that."
More often it's a problem that wasn't visible at the time of the inspection: it just couldn't be seen, or there was a bunch of stuff piled up (and no, I don't move many boxes or stuff - too much risk of claims that I broke a Ming dynasty vase or that I'll screw up my back or something) or its something that happened after the inspection.
Example: a few months ago I heard "My heating guy said you should have caught the cracked heat exchanger. Now I have to buy a new furnace."
The cracked heat exchanger was at the top of the heat exchanger and was only found by the contractor as he took the ductwork apart to install central air. Home inspectors don't take stuff apart; there is no way I could have found that crack, and the problem arose because the contractor didn't understand what an inspection includes and doesn't include.
And there are some contractors who are used to thinking "does this meet [current] code." Today's code doesn't apply to the banister installed 50 years ago (or 5 years ago) or to the wiring of the sub-panel installed years ago. Many contractors though will dis the HI based on a "code" standard that just doesn't apply. Again, a lack of good education by HI's to the trades.
And sometimes there are plain old differences of opinion. How serious is reversed polarity in a receptacle? How serious is an open ground?
And, there are some contractors who have some pretty strong feelings about HI's. Sometimes because they've been burned by an incompetent HI, sometimes because they've been shown up by a competent HI where they screwed up somehow. Sometimes just because there are people out there with an attitude overdose.
Another example: I call out knob and tube wiring buried under thermal insulation as a serious defect because of the fire hazard. There's a lot of that in my area because of the old housing stock.
Many electricians around here say "That HI doesn't know what he's talking about. We see that all of the time. No problem."
FWIW, my response is: "As a matter of law, a licensed electrician knows a lot more than I do about wiring. I'm just a home inspector and, as I told you at the beginning of the inspection, I'm just a generalist. The reasons I called this K&T out is that (i) the National Electrical Code calls it a fire hazard; (ii) every electrical book I've read calls it a fire hazard (and here are the names and authors of the books___); (iii) the local fire Marshall, fire fighters and fire investigators that I've spoken too all call it a hazard, and (iv) knob and tube wiring got its capacity rating based on the expectation that it can disapate heat into the air. Thermal insulation wasn't expected in rating K&T wire. I put my opinion in writing, on my letterhead and I signed it. Will the electrician do the same?"
There is a fair amount of "we do it this way all of the time" out there. As an HI, all I can do is cite my sources for why they shouldn't be doing it that way at all. Manufacturer's specifications, codes, trade associations (GAMA, etc.)
The good HI's I know all have a network of tradespeople we call on for expert opinions and additional knowledge. The smart tradespeople understand that every additional problem found by an HI is potential work that otherwise wouldn't be open for bid!
I tell this to every customer and usually to every trades person: "As a home inspector, I'm a generalist, kind of like your family doctor. Sometimes when I see something I don't like or isn't done in accordance with the usual practices, I'll refer you to a specialist for further evaluation."
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"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
Since I am a professional buyer ,I will say what my take on this will be .
You make an offer contingent on "your own home inspectors findings" . If they will not allow this just "walk". You have made your offer and it stands . Home owners that wont allow inspecton have something to hide. You dont depend on a real estate agent for anything , only to hold them to the letter of the law. The responsebility belongs to the home owner. The home inspectors who have yellow page ads and are affiliated on a home inspectors list with the organizations web site for that state are the ones who should get the call. Real estate agents job is to find property and sell it . The buck stops there. If I was a licensed home inspector and I wasnt on the list , they would answer to a judge as to why I wasnt and be able to prove it in a court of law or I would certainly have damages incurred by their agency.
Tim Mooney