I’ve been trying to work up a materials list for my remodel. It’s simple enough to shop around and see what certain appliances or fixtures are going for. However, trying to estimate what the materials will cost to rough in the plumbing and electrical is something else. There are so many little things to account for, such as clamps, fittings, etc..
Is there any “rule of thumb” that I can use to estimate how much I’ll need to budget for the materials to do a complete rough in of the plumbing and electrical on my 1600′ remodel? (200A service, CPVC supply)
I ripped out almost all of the old stuff, so I’ll be starting from scratch – just like new construction. I’m guesstimating that $2000 should cover the materials (doing the labor myself) to rough in both the plumbing and electrical.
Too low? Too high?
Michael
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Replies
I can't say if you sound high or low, but it's well worth your time to layout the lights, switches, outlets, etc. and make a count of it all. You'll need that for a shopping list anyway.
Same goes for plumbing.
I can't imagine anyone having a square foot rule of thumb for electrical since there can be twice as many electrical gadgets from one home to the next.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I GOTTCHA RULES OF THUMB RIGHT HEEA!!!
Actually this is labor and materials for new construction and does not include fixtures, and is for a somewhat modest home:
Electrical: $2 a heated sq foot.
Plumbing: $380 per fixture unit.
I think you are right though. This guy just hast to figure out every device/fixture/pipe/wire/etc.
Michael, there's no easy way out here. You've got a modest budget and need to come up with a pretty concise figure that you can then add at least 10% to...........maybe 20 as you're the owner builder. You've torn most of it out. It is going to cost quite a bit to put it all back together.
Is the current service 200 amp?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"Is the current service 200 amp?"
Yes. It was mounted under the meter base on an exterior wall. Twenty-seven years of sitting out in the weather had taken its toll on it, so I opted to replace it and move it indoors. Either going with a Seimens or QO.
MichaelNew knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
So a new 200 amp panel with breakers...
QO call it $250-300 (probably a lot closer to $300).
12-2 romex is going for more than I like to think about - ~$260 / thousand feet
As others have said, more than a thousand feet in your rough-in; I'm not sure that it would go all the way to 2000 though.
My gut tells me that $2000 will get you about half-way through plumbing and electrical rough-in
it real easy, count every recapcle, every switch, every sub panel, every panel, 2000 ft of #12 ( trust me on the 2000) every light, every ceiling fan, bath fan, everything, then mulitply by 10 %. dont forget sales tax. once you got that number of everything you possible could use, boxes, clamps, extra tools, gotta have extra tools. and dont forget the fancy klein bag $35. add everything up, then triple it.
.
It doesn't matter who he is, just so long as he says something "we" like. RJW 1/07
add everything up, then triple it.
That's exactly what happens to me! Every freaking time! Always 3 times what I figure the cost.
You too, must be experienced...
3.14 times what ever you think, time, materials, it doesn't matter. The younger brother calls it the pi factor.
Call 3-4 electrical subs , ask for bids on the job ..
Do the same for Plumbers...
Ask that the bids be broken down by labor and material.
Take the subs numbers and you have your answer.
Oh yeah and don't tell them you are going to do the work yourself.
seems thats how DIY'rs around here do it.
or, PAY an electrician and a plumber to do takeoffs for you...I'm sure you don't like having your chain yanked ;-) "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
Snort, I considered making it obvious I was jerking some chains here with my post .. but figured someone else would do it for me. lol
duh, I'm a little slower than the average bear<G>...call me, I'll give you a free estimate, ha! "But to be honest some folks here have been pushing the envelope quite a bit with their unnecessary use if swear words. They just put a character in to replace a letter. But everyone knows what they're saying." Sancho
"Call 3-4 electrical subs , ask for bids on the job .. Do the same for Plumbers..."
I'm sure you're saying that tongue-in-cheek. I'd never feel right about using someone that way when I fully intend to do the install myself. Just wouldn't be ethical. I'll freely admit that I'm an amateur at remodeling, but I try hard to be above average where integrity is concerned. I like to sleep at night.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Hey Mike, reason I asked about the service and panel being in already was that there's a modestly substantial charge that comes out of your 2000 allotment. Bob has put some numbers toward your estimate and he too sees your initial guess being short by quite a bit. Again, you need to sit down and as you would do with the structure of the remodel, build it before you begin and itemize all the pcs/parts. A bunch of ten dollar items quickly add up to a hundred and a few of those zip right up to thousands.
To arbitrarily choose a 60k budget is all well and good, but it's usually arrived at by the dollars on hand or the ceiling of what you could put into it and still come out ahead on property value.
I've done remodels for a long time. I might be able to jot down numbers for various projects, guess appliance/fixture costs and come up with an off the cuff "ballpark" idea of what it would take w/o really figuring the job. But, I wouldn't give any kind of "ballpark" (god, I hate that word) price to a customer. This takes serious thought.
Start with the structural, work into the finishes and then add up all the parts. That number just might get you close to your expenses. What would be haunting, but you should still do it, is to figure out how much of your time this is going to take. 60 grand and no where near enough time to do it won't get you very far.
Best of luck.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"60 grand and no where near enough time to do it won't get you very far."
Thanks for the feedback, Calvin. You guys have really got me sweating now.
Don't reckon a gutted house with the chimney missing is bringing much these days.
Michael New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Yeah, you s.o.b. *insert a smiley face Gut then figure is the backward way to do it. But if I recall, this was a family home that you are going to remodel and move into? That at least will make it ............bearable.
I've been on a couple plan as you go's and holy Toledo, rude awakening toward the end of the job. Take the time now man, you won't be disappointed.........anymore than later. At least if you get the educated number now, you can maybe pare down on one or two of the less important items. Perhaps leave some fluff that can be done down the road.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"you can maybe pare down on one or two of the less important items."
I tried pitching that idea to the wife. Thought sure I could convince her that a wood stove in the kitchen and a scrub board in the laundry room would give the place a nostalgic flair.
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
ROFLMAO!!.. Ok and She Said?
"ROFLMAO!!.. Ok and She Said?"
Didn't stick around to see. We been married 31 years. When I see that big ol' vain pop out on her forehead I skee-daddle.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Smart man ...
It was tongue in cheek...
For electrical, I'd say this should get you pretty close:
- 200A service- $500
- Outlets, switches, light fixture backboxes, telephone/data outlets- $20-25 ea
- Can lights- $40 ea
Add for actual fixture costs, ceiling fans, etc.
For plumbing, if you figure $150/fixture for roughin materials, you'll probably be pretty close.
At first glance, your $2000 seems low. I'm thinking more like $4-5k without any info on quantities, etc.
Bob
"At first glance, your $2000 seems low. I'm thinking more like $4-5k without any info on quantities, etc."
OUCH! I sure hope you're wrong, Bob. If you're not, I may have to pawn my trophy for the world's biggest beer gut.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
I would just jot down a rudimetary floor plan on graph paper, then mentally walk through it placing the electrical symbols where you want the outlets, switches, ceiling fan boxes, and so forth. Same for plumbing. Then you have a rough idea how many of each you need.
Now the next step is figuring what grade switches and receptacles you want. A commercial grade plug outlet is something like $6 but worth every penny. Of course you can go with a wally world receptacle at 67 cents each but I would stay away from those. So figure about $6 per switch and outlet.
A roll of 250' 12 gauge Romex wire is $67 + tax here. So if you do need 2000 feet that is 8 rolls, about $500 or so.
If you go with copper for the plumbing that can add up pretty fast. You want to figure out if you want homeruns to each plumbing fixture or the roundabout way, which isn't so bad because then you can put a recirculating pump inline to keep at hot water at each faucet. And don't forget the outdoor sill cocks, and if you want to have hot water available outdoors to wash the dog.
The electrical I figure you can do for a grand in materials, not counting the fixtures. The plumbing... probably about $1000 to $2000 in materials, depending on if you go with copper or PEX. Keep in mind that any connections in PEX can't be behind the wall, those should be copper. Otherwise if you have a crawlspace PEX would be great to do the long runs.
Get the best receptacles and switches. Siemens is a great choice for a main breaker box... hmm you can't forget the arc fault breakers for the bedrooms and the GFC breakers for the bathrooms and outdoor outlets and the washroom. Those add another couple hundred so figure about $1500 for the electric. Try to stay away from the GFC's that are in the plug outlet themselves, they dont last as long as the ones that install in the main itself.
Hope this helps. Get that graph paper mapped out :)
Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK