Hello everybody
I am a trimmer in the pocono mtn. area of Pennsylvania, average about a house a week, your standard 2400 sq ft colonial. I work essentially with 1 builder in the area, averages about 120 homes a year. About 4 months ago a new Lumber 84 opened up locally, and they came in and gave the spiel to the owner how cheap they were(of course they did not tell him how cheap their service is as well) Well they started using them and I have to admit that they are the worst co to deal with.
For instance the last job that I worked on they were short 7 doors, 300′ of casing, 64′ of base, and of course not enough 1 x 8 polar to do the stairs. Now I can understand that in the begining we all have teething pains , but this is now about the 32nd house that trim was delivered to.
My foreman who really could not care less, tells me to “Deal With It” He says that they are so cheap that the service level cannot be taken into consideration. What is worst is that when I call them to get a second delivery, they still only then get it half right. After the 3rd time I usually end up going there my self, I know they have it in stock because I have to pick upthe stuff. I tried billing for all the trips that I had to make but that certainly did not go over to well.
What is worse is that for the first time I have actually gotten loud and irate with the counter people, wich is very out of charecter for me, as I am usually a very mellow guy but this co. (Lumber 84) has just gotten to me in the worst way, they have actually cost me money out of my pocket as far as finishing jobs go. But what really galls me is there callous attitude and they just really S–k
Thank you for allowing me to vent
Mark
Replies
From a supplier's point of view I despise them. Fortunately they shut down their Illinois stores so I won't have to worry about it anymore.
I had one house where they ordered trusses and scheduled a delivery. But when our truck showed up there was already a roof on the house.
They claimed they had never orded the truses from us. So we faxed them bqack their order form with *THEIR* P.O number on it. The next day they made up a story about how yes, they had ordered the trusses but then called and cancelled the order the next day. They never did accept delivery or admit that they'd screwed up.
.
Their corporate HQ constantly messed up our payments. They would sometimes string us along for a couple of YEARS before we got paid for jobs.
They seemed to change employees every few weeks if they couldn't meet sales goals. So we were constantly trying to work with new people from counter guys right up to general managers.
Thank God they're gone from here. Sorry you have to deal with them.
They still have a store on rt.12 in palatine.
NOt currently, but in the past I have had to deal with 84 Lumber and they suck.
How far into the Pocono's are you?
The solution is easy, but only if you have the leverage. 120 Homes a year? LTS maybe? Doesn't matter really.
How easy are you to replace? If you have any leverage at all, the next time it's jacked up, you go fishing. Leave the Job Super a polite voice-mail telling him you'll be back when ALL the trim is there.
Also, go see your Foreman's Boss. In my experience I've yet to meet a job super in the Pocono's or surrounding area who could build a dog house let alone a real one. SO maybe when you go over his head it'll get fixed.
In the end however, they will continue to use 84 because they are cheap. 84 will continue to suck. No one will really care.
Don't feel bad. There are plenty of builders in the Lehigh Valley right now using that crap 84 passes off as millwork in $500-$600K houses.
Hi Robert
I am up in mt.Pocono. The builder is not LTS, as cheap as lumber 84 is My understanding is that LTS would not even use them for trim. For frameing I do not know. I have a buddy that does there punch list work and he told me this. Are you located in the lehigh valley?
Mark
Fotze,
I'm on the far west end of Allentown.
Your in a tough situation. No doubt the guy you're doing work for knows you're comfortable with the deal you have. He's probably happy with it also.
So, he'll push it a little. you'll bend a little. As long as it's a little, maybe no one gets hurt. But what if it turns into he pushes a lot? Can you survive if that 52 weeks a year worth of work suddenly dries up?
I would have a talk with the big boss before it goes too far and someone does someting they regret later.
.90 a ft? That's pretty decent for the Pocono's, isn't it?
Robert
no thats a fair price, I have heard others getting about 1.00-1.10 a ft. The price I charge also includes railing so it is a decent price as far as the builder is concerned.
Where west of Allentown? My youngest son plays little leaque for lower macungie.
What about all the building going on in the lehigh valley ? I'm thinking of a change of scenery, as my ex-wife lives there with my kids, I'm pretty tired of the Poconos, as far as the plateu is concerned the lots that are left up here are pretty crappy, barely able to get them to perk.
Mark
I'm in Upper Macungie township. Closer to Brienigsville than Allentown.
As far as work around here? I've not used my tools to make a living since early 2002 so my info is a little dated. I do know however that I see a lot of Hispanic workers on the jobs around here. I also know that one of the largest Trim Contractors around is slow because he is " Priced too high". I always thought he was rock bottom ( Like $22 a door).
In 2002 I talked to a guy who wanted to pay .55 a foot for trim. Never priced it out to see if it was good or not because I won't trim by the foot.
I also install rails and have talked to this guy at least once.
http://www.customraildesigns.com/
He's got work but I'm not sure how he pays. $350 a day seems to be the going rate right now. I have a friend who installs for a shop that sends him to N.J. every day and he averages aboput $400 a day but he puts on a lot of miles.
If you want to go that route shoot me an E-Mail and I'll give you a few numbers of guys who may need rail installers.
As far as living here, it's getting crowded and expensive.
84 lumber is the worst.
There is one less than 2 miles from my place, and I drive 11 miles to deal with a real lumber yard.
Are you down with OPP?
84 lumber is probably the worst yard in town I would rather go to Menards (which I avoid at all costs) than 84.
I had a couple of salesman from there stop by and offer their services to me. I asked them a few questions and asked them to leave because nothing has changed since the last time I had been there. One question I asked was "Can you get me scissor trusses with a 6/12 roof pitch and a 10/12 ceiling pitch?" Yes we can, we do it all the time.
Maybe he heard me wrong, but the whole ya-ya BS is what got them off my christmas card mailing list to begin with.I only golf on days that end with a "Y".
"Can you get me scissor trusses with a 6/12 roof pitch and a 10/12 ceiling pitch?"
I gotta try putting that in our engineering program one of these days and see what I get.
(-:
Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?
According to 84 it's very easy and done all the time. :)I only golf on days that end with a "Y".
Stilletto, without discussing specifics, it is easy to do and it can be done all the time. I didn't understand it in your first post, then still didn't get it when Boss agreed. At this point I'm still not getting it.
Imagine a building with a 40 span. The main roof pitch is 6/12. Inside that building there is a small room, maybe a 16 foot span. It could easily fit a 10/12 pitch in there for a ceiling.
I don't think you should rule out a company because of a clever question that is designed to mentally fool a salesperson. That company might suck, but your example is flawed too.
I hate to be a nitpicker.....but sometimes I am.
SIA (Sorry in advance).
blue
No need to apologize, I asked him the question and without hestitation he answered sure no problem. I'm sure it can be done and is done quite often, heck round walls are framed with straight lumber, I ruled them out because of the problem of telling me what I want to hear just to get me through the door, and dropping the ball repeatedly when it counts.I only golf on days that end with a "Y".
"Can you get me scissor trusses with a 6/12 roof pitch and a 10/12 ceiling pitch?"
I gotta try putting that in our engineering program one of these days and see what I get.
Tall Heels.Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
Ron,
I ran it thru my truss program and got this:
Mr. T.
The Emperor has NO clothes!!!
the emporer has no closet...
the emporer has no clue...
the emporer needs someone to tie his shoes..
the emporer doesn't care about polls (they can be fixed)
Believe it or not, I've worked on a job with some trusses sorta like that...
If at first you don't succeed, aim lower.
whats really nice about that design is the 6 foot energy heel
Mr. T.
The Emperor has NO clothes!!!
the emporer has no closet...
the emporer has no clue...
the emporer needs someone to tie his shoes..
the emporer doesn't care about polls (they can be fixed)
That's one he77 of an energy heel and not much of an "energy peak"
careful there leroy, yer approaching dome status and the rules change.
The true Emporer is Gunner as he secretly is the Naked Carpenter
be a dome dee dome dome...DOME! the story you are about to see is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.
Beware. RFID is coming.
Edited 5/30/2006 4:49 pm ET by rez
I was about to order all my material from them for the last house I did. Thank god I only paid for one delivary of precuts. Just about every single one of them looked like bananas they were so bowed and twisted.
I called them and told them to get that crap out of my yard and I'd even pay the restocking fee (not in so many words). They wouldn't do it. They were by far the worst lumber yard I ever dealt with. I used the pile they gave me for corner posts etc etc. Where I could straighten most of them out by nailing several together. They could care less that I had over a $200,000 order. Go figure.
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
PS...Print up this thread to give your idiot forman after the holiday.
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Well he can't show it to his foreman anymore after what you called the guy! :)
I can't add anymore then what has already been said. They suck. Feel better?
GIVE ME AN............. F!
I'm feeling fortunate. The 84 here has great service and has all but put everyone else out. Most builders go there. Their service, delivery times, everything . . . none better. Guess it makes a big difference who's steering the ship.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
RW -
You're lucky. I have one about 2 miles away. I go there maybe 5 times a year, if that. They have a fair selection of fiberglass insulation and they happen to have a colonial casing profile that I've committed to using. Otherwise, they just don't have the material I want when I need it. It could be as simple as 2x4s, but I've seen them run out. Doors? I need 6, they have 4. Even trim, lots of times, it just isn't on the rack.
The help is about average and there's nothing special about the place. I go to a real lumber yard.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
the one here is....
no waiting...
nobody in the store....
huge discounts...
cashier has a problem getting it rung up right...
convienet parking...
whole parking lot is empty...
no service and nothing in stack either...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
whole parking lot is empty...
Thats never a good sign, especially if your the owner!
especially if your the owner!
They must be doing something right. Joe Hardy, and his daughter, are worth about $2 billion.Are you down with OPP?
I built an addition on my own house three years ago and deided to use 84 Lumber for my framing, sheathing and LDL, as the savings were substantial.
I found out there's a reason the savings were so big. First of all, they delivered the wrong size roof rafters, they shorted me two I joists, got the insulation order wrong, but the worse was the quality of the lumber. I had to send most of it back and I demanded they bring me something I could work with which they couldn't because they had nothing in stock. It really set me back on my time schedule. I will say that they were nice guys at the counter, but the inferior quality of materials and the service from the order screw ups was absolutely horrible.
I will never use a Lumber 84 store again. The other box stores are a dream compaired to them. There is a HD right down the road from them and I never see any customers at 84. I don't know how they have kept in business.
Interesting - around here (Western PA), my experience is that 84 lumber is more expensive than their competitors, even the full service lumber yards. The local store claims they don't give trade discounts, and they seem to be losing a lot of business to the Home Depot down the road.
It seems a lot of the contractors do use 84 around here. Maybe my volume is just not enough to interest them.
FWIW, 84, the town where 84 lumber started (hence the name), is 30 miles or so down the road.
I used to buy everything from 84 and as such get some purrrty nice discounts. Then "my sales guy" left to go pursue other opportunities. Haven't been back since. If you can find a salesperson that takes on your account and actually cares about what you need and when you need it you are in great shape. If not.... well, it's just another place that sells warped 2X's....
Measure once > cut once > get board stretcher....
They dont even heat the stores! They keep yhe drywall mud and paint in a little seperate room with a heater .Every stick of wood ive gotten from them should of had a Chaquita sticker on it. All thier delivery is outsourced so u onlyhave to talk to 6 people to find out where ur stuff is. The guy at the desk who writes up the ticket loads u so forget getting out of there is less than an hour if anybody is in front of u.U feel like u've gone to heaven going to pull ur hair out lowes after them.
I dealt with 84 Lumber once in about 1979 and never again.
Our local 84 is the pits.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"My foreman who really could not care less, tells me to "Deal With It""
I don't think yer problem is with 84 Lumber itself ....
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
hi Jeff
Yeah I was sorta hopeing somebody would pick up on that. There is a little friction between him and I, but I have to bite my tongue for a while. As far as the work is concerned I think that I have the best deal around. I get a min. of 1 house a week @ .90 sq ft average house is 2400sq ft-garage that equates to about 2000.00 a week x 52 weeks. I commute 10 mins to work. The checks come in like clockwork. I figuere that to do this amount with my own jobs I would have to gross a min of 500-600k a year with employees, right now the only one I have to worry about is myself.
So like I said, I think that I have a real good thing going. The only thing is that it is a dangerous game because I have all my eggs in 1 basket, so that is why I have to becareful with the foreman.
In his defense he is currently 1 man to build @ any given time about 75 houses in variuos stages of construction, so thats why my issues are not important to him.
If the framer roughed it to small "deal with it"
No blocking for handrail "deal with it"
Sends me to a house to trim with no viynl down yet "deal with it"
Framers forgot a wall with a door(closet) well frame it up damm you and leave me alone! in other words "DEAL WITH IT"
So its almost like I end up finishing the houses myself, I'll be the one to tell the painter to go ahead and do the caulk and putty, then let the electricians know when to do the final on a house after I have installed the kitchen if I install one. Heck I even tell the excavator when to do the final grade, as he waits usually to trim before he does his final thing
But because of the money that I am making I have to be carefull not to piss him off to much. Lot of times when he did not like the quality of material being delivered he will complain to me, then I get real cocky and tell him "well you chose lumber 84 so deal with it" that usually gets my point across.
mark
As far as the work is concerned I think that I have the best deal around. I get a min. of 1 house a week @ .90 sq ft average house is 2400sq ft-garage that equates to about 2000.00 a week x 52 weeks. I commute 10 mins to work. The checks come in like clockwork
Thems pretty good clams for a one man show.( Where I live anyway.) No advertising, no employee headaches, no dealing with the general public, no false leads(tirekickers),no weekends spent estimating instead of taking your kid fishing,......Me, I'd deal with it.
Yea, I'd probably beech a little just to try to keep it from getting worse and so he'd know he's getting more for his money than just a trim man, but in the end, I'd deal with it. :)
yeah ... gotta pick yer battles.
or as I say ... better to work with the devil U know.
sometimes ....
always feel better to bitch every now and then though.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Could it be that Lowes, Home Depot and 84 lumber are all one-in-the-same company?