Anybody here from the Phoenix, Arizona metro area? I was wondering if anybody would like to combine resources to save some $$$? Let me know if the idea interests you or if you have any advice you would like to pass along about the process. You can reach me at [email protected]. Hope to hear from you soon!
Mike
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Replies
Spamers aren't welcome here, biz
Excellence is its own reward!
what are you talking about piffin? spammers? I am try to network resources with other potential owner-builders. Before you accuse, get the story straight!
What story ?
You are using a name that screams spam email.
You made no mention of owner/builders until your response to Piffin.
You want to 'combine resources' to save some $$$.
It smells like spam or scam.
If there is more to the story, then give us the full story. Until you do, you'll forgive us if we assume the quack after seeing the walk and the look.
How does this 'networking, or combining of resources' work ? What exactly IS your story, Biz ???
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
Okay Luka....You are absolutely right! Nothing was ever mentioned about being a Owner-Builder and that was my mistake. But in all fairness, I do not think my post screamed spam or scam by far.
Well here is the story....I am in the planning stages of building a home for my family and I. Currently we are looking for the land and I would like to combine resources with other owner-builders to purchase bigger parcels so we can all offset some of the cost of construction. Also share any other resources and ideas like: sub-contractors list for bids, bulk material purchases, and whatever other resources that saves $$$. So there goes the story!
Mike
PS: I hate spammers just as much as the next guy, but I think a more curteous way for "Pifin" to handle this was to ask me what the story is instead of plain out accusing me of spamming or scamming like the others have said. But that is just me!!!!
You invited us to get the storey straight.
How much of your own money are you willing to put up? Land developement is an expensive task, requireing lots of experience. What is yours?
Are you the same Mike Piork involved in real estate repossesions with five brothers? That would be a different kind of real estate developement business if you are.
Apparently you like 'group' activities, not all of them exactly 'normal'.
The normal way to go about what you want to accomplish is to find an experienced contractor that you can trust, and work with him.
..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin:
It concerns me that you know my background without me ever divulging this information!! How did you know this? Yes, I am the same Mike Piork that owned a inspection and preservation company (not a repossesion company) that did work with several major financial institution. Since you obviously know my background, then you should know my good reputation also (not a scammer). Based on your accusing me of spamming, you have created uncertainty among other members about my reputation and character. I still believe it could have been handled in a more curteous way by you.
As far as my business experience......I am aware that this is totally different than the inspection & preservation business. But what you don't know is that I also owned residential multi-family homes in New York, where I did most of the rehab work. I have absolutely NO EXPERIENCE with building a house from scratch, thus trying to educate and combine resources (not using other people's money, but equally sharing in the cost and split of the lot). Everybody knows that you get more acreage per $$$ if you buy bigger parcels, which means more land for the buck. All splits would be handled by a Title Co, not me personally!! And yes, some of my businesses are out of the ordinary, but I pride myself on that. What is wrong with doing something different as long as it is legal and ethical?
It seems like the group has already passed judgement on me, so I will do all of you and myself a favor and voluntarily remove myself from the group. It is sad the way this turned out!!
Mike
You say "What is wrong with doing something different as long as it is legal and ethical?"
And you are concerned about how somebody can know about you. You posted your email adress here which was a gateway to your Yahoo page that somebody else posted the link to above. It's all stuff you put out into the public domain for all the world to see. So explain how you can claim to be all aboveboard and ethical and all that when you brag for all the world to see that,
>>>>>"We like meeting new people that are real, down-to-earth, not pretentious and know how to get into a little troubl
Latest News: Recently had our fantasy come true. Enjoyed 3some with another female. Great experience....I think we will be doing that again ;-) Favorite Quote"Looking for normal people that are for real.....okay, forget the normal part, but must be real. Friendship only for now!!!"<<<<< (quoted from your Yahoo page)
I would probably have had far less concerns about you if you had written your last couple posts first, but the way you came across - well, Luke already went into that pretty good. You posted in a style that fits those who warrent further investigation. Aparently your lifestyle is abnormal. A reasonable conclusion is that your business ethics are too. Everybody feels pretty comfortable here because of a certain amt of trust. Like all things worthwhile, it is something to be earned, not taken or presumed upon. This is all a reaction to your words, not mine. I just turned on the light..
Excellence is its own reward!
piffen , what's abnormal mean ?
and can you get him to not put me on the sub's bid request list ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You could look it up Mike, but since you're such a good neighbor I'll define it for you.
Ab normal means outside the norm. Could be on the exceptional side. Could be on the other end of the spectrum.
On his bid subs list??????/
I don't think he's looking for quality, he's looking for cheap. .
Excellence is its own reward!
Yes, but I never mentioned anything about me having a contract with Five Brothers doing real estate inspections.....where did you get that from? I have no problem letting people know who I am....if I did, I wouldn't fill out any profile! I see nothing wrong with my profile.....it is honest and upfront. Sounds to me you have a personal problem with my lifestyle......are you jelous that I actually have what most guys dream about no matter if they admit to it or not.....a threesome with two women! Who are you to judge that this is a abnormal lifestyle? Who made you God?
And you are correct....trust is earned.....but by asking questions curteously (didn't your mom teach you how to be curteous?). I have no problem with that! But you plain out accused me of spamming!
And that manner is getting more obnoxious!
No - I'm not jealous. I happen to take marriage seriously. It's a vow where a man and a woman put themselves on the line for each other. Break that vow by polluting it with someone else and it's not the same relationship any more like mixing beer and scotch ruins either. If a wife can't rust her man to be true only to her, then how can anybody else trust that man with their money? Most people I've known who would brag in public about their personal sex life (regardless of whether it's a perverted relationship or a normal one) have got some kind of inadequacies inside themselves they are trying to make up for. When you challenge everybody here who expresses any kind of negative thoughts about your kind of lifestyle and the fact that it is outside the norm, you show yourself to be the kind of person who lives by their own rules - not the ones that society condones. That is a signal that you might make up your own rules about money and land speculation too. You are telling us a lot about yourself. In your own words, ".it is honest and upfront". So it's not whether I have a 'personal' problem with your lifestyle. It is a matter of what your attitude in that lifestyle says about how you might be expected to do business. Who am I to say that your thing is abnormal???? I'm not the one who defines marriage. Society has already done that. You step outside the norm, that makes you abnormal, bud. Grow up and live with it.
I don't see anything discourteous about my stating facts. spammers are not welcome here. You are a guest here as am I. When you registered to come in, you agreed to not post solicitations for sales. It appeared and to some degree, stilll appears, that this ios what you were doing. To do so immediately after agreeing with your hosts not to do so is discourteous.
So now we're both rude, I guess, eh? Life is tough.
Take your name and plug it into a search engine and see what you find out about your self. Then you see where Five Brothers comes from. I asked whether you were he. There could have been a dozen Mike Piorks in this country, not all associated with your email. Anybody wanting to do business with you would have been wise to run such a minimal search, probably more. .
Excellence is its own reward!
What you call obnoxious, I call defending myself!
My lifestyle should have no bearing on my business dealings. Your moralistic views are no concern to me neither should my lifestyle to you. I am smart enough to make my business decisions based on facts and gut feelings rather than taking a hollier than now moralistic attitude. Just for your information, I have been happily married to my wife for 18 years when in society there is a 55% divorce rate (usually only after 3 years). We have a honest, respectful and trusting relationship. I have never cheated on her, nor her on me. Meanwhile I know plenty of moralistic people as yourself who not only cheat on their spouse but are the biggest crooks around. Biggest example are those preachers who end up cheating on their spouses with hookers while embezzling millions in church donations from people who can't afford it. Those are the first people I don't trust. By the way, are you married? Divorced? Single? Are you talking from experience or just based on what you hear a marriage should be like?The lifestyle decision was decided between both of us and should remain our concern, not yours. I expect the same curtesy that I give you when it comes to my lifestyle. If someone attacks me for it, I attack back. I am very passionate about it! And just to let you know, what you think is the norm is not so. There are more people involved in the alternative lifestyle then you are led to believe. They are just not out of the closet because of fear of persectution by people like you. People like you who try to instill your values in them as being the norm. You are absolutely right......I make my own rules whenever possible as long as I live by the golden rule....treat others the way you want to be treated. Also just because society has certain rules, that doesn't always make it right. At one time societies rules made it okay to discriminate against blacks or even own them as slaves....was that rule right? NO, it took a long battle by people with independent minds to fight close-minded people like you. If that makes me abnormal....so-be-it. That is what makes our country great....we can agree to disagree! I have the freedom to live the way I choose and so do you. So all I can tell you is grow up and live with it!
Nothing about my post had anything to do with solicitation of sales. So that excuse is not cutting it....instead it is a copout by a person with a weak character that can't fess up when they did something wrong. And it is funny that there is a classified section here for the sale of tools, materials, etc...Face it, you were very discurteous, not me....I defended myself! Yeah, life is tough and I am a fighter who won't let life defeat him.
And just for your information....I would expect anybody that plans on entering a partnership with anybody (including me and you) do their due diligence. I have no problem with that at all. Do you?
Mike, I hope you stick around.
I also hope ultimately to find that there is no reason to doubt your sincerity or honesty.
: )
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
Ok, maybe I shouldn't have jumped the gun about you being not my sort of business partner. There was very little about you on the yahoo site, but I got the impression that you like to get in trouble. I have enough of that already. Now you seem argumentative, but you set yourself up by being so vague at first which got everybodys guard up.
Hey Mark....I appreciate your post and hear where you are coming from. I don't actually look for the kind of trouble that most are thinking of on this group. It is actually just a figure of speech, jokingly saying: hey we like to go out and have fun and looking for like-minded people (may it be dinner, dancing, movies, or whatever). Believe me, I am the last person looking for the other type of trouble, but I am argumentative when I feel that I am being attacked. I already admitted that I made a mistake with the initial post being so vague, but some others can't admit to their mistakes. They try to keep justifying what they did when in actuality they just made a assumption of me based on my screename. Plenty of people with legitamit businesses use their biz name as a handle and never send any spam.
I am a 35 yr old grown man with 2 kids and don't have time for that kind of trouble. But I really do appreciate you admitting that you jumped the gun.
Take care
Mike
See my reply to Luka for answers
Mike,
First of all, no one accused you of being a spammer or scammer. We have said that what we saw in the first couple of posts by you, seemed like spam or a scam. We then asked you to prove that wrong.
On the surface, this response would seem like you have tried to do so. But when looked at cold, it seems purposely vague. I am sure that you understand that we want more than vagueness as response. You'll please forgive us if we press for something more concrete.
We will consider this post as a start, and thank you for that. Now, we need more info.
I can see that it would be a smart move for anyone attempting the job you want to do... to try to find other owner/builders and share with them, the sub contractors names, what the costs are, what kind of job was done, etc... But it SEEMS like what you are really pressing for, is some kind of scheme where people are throwing in financial resources.
My instincts clamor for attention when someone I have never met, and don't know from a hole in the ground... asks me to throw my finances in with theirs to do something like this. I have never yet known a situation like what you are describing to be anything other than a money-making scheme for the person proposing it.
If you are on the up and up, you will not mind sharing with us exactly what you mean to propose to the person who would respond to you.
The word "scheme" does not necessarily mean scam. There are many schemes that are completely healthy, honest, worthwhile and wholesome. But there are many more that are no more than a scam. And there are some that are in between.
What you have given us so far seems more like that in between kind. You have a 'plan' You hope to come out of the end of the scheme, much richer than when you went in. Either you do not have enough money to finance the whole thing yourself, or you know what a risk it is, and do not wish to risk any more of your own money than you need to. Better to get others in on it, and let them risk their money. This is exactly what my gut is telling me about you right now. Now please prove me wrong.
By the way: As for screaming spam... I was referencing your email address, not your post. Your post didn't 'scream' anything. It just set off the low-level warning buzzer. Your email address however... If I got an email from someone with the name XTREMEBIZ2000(at)yahoo.com, I would have one look at the email address, and delete the email. Having confidence that it was just another of the many spam emails I get every day from addresses that look just like that.
Your email would be treated the same as the emails that come from such names as...
largesendingpromo
marketingpros
yourbizz
replicash
AmericanCash
profitbooster
mindcontrolmarketing
mikeritzprofessionals
ritzmarketingpros
smartoffers009
guerrillamarketingbombshells
yourbizzmarkatingpros
consultant
yourbizzmarketing
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
http://profiles.yahoo.com/xtremebiz2000
Not my type of business partner.
Okay I hit that dumb site... does that now mean I am going to get crap sent to me??????????? I am thinking this guys is on the up and up. Sounds like a sick puppy to me.Tamara
So you think this "guys" is a sick puppy that is on the up and up ?
LOL
: )Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
Tamara:
Don't worry, you won't get a bunch of stuff sent to you! But answer this...What dumb site? Yahoo profiles? What was wrong with it? And yes, I am a sick puppy.....don't want to be normal or average!
Mike
Remember, the idea of going into business must be mutual. May I ask what made you come to that determination that I was not your type of business partner based on looking at my profile? What was wrong with the profile?
Luka:
I hate to disagree, but Piffin did accuse me of spamming (copy of post enclosed).
From:
piffin
Oct-19 11:04 pm
To:
XTREMEBIZ200
(2 of 15)
24112.2 in reply to 24112.1
Spamers aren't welcome here, biz
. Excellence is its own reward!
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My post was purposely vague because I didn't feel the need to explain every little detail from A-Z unless the respondents were from the area and were also looking to share resources. If I would have gotten a response from someone that was in my area, also owner-building....I would have been more than happy to explain everything I had in mind! (Example: Someone puts up a ad "Bar for sale".....do you think he puts in the ad all the financials from A-Z......I think not. He puts a basic vague overview. When the prospective buyer calls, he gives them all the info then. Same in my scenerio! Although I have no need to explain the details of my plan (since I will be voluntarily removing myself from this group)....I will because I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.
1) I can get more acreage per dollar by buying 5 or 10 acres instead of just 1 acre!
My plan was to get one or several other Owner/Bulders to invest $20,000 in addition to $20,000 OF MY OWN MONEY and possibly purchase 10 acres. Do a extended closing subject to lot splits....and each person would get their equal share of land. At the closing.....everybody goes their own way with their piece of land....no other responsibility from them to me, nor me to them. With this extra land, I plan to split the lots even more to sell a lot or two to help pay down my mortgage. Now tell me what is wrong with that?
2)I also wanted to see if they were ready to build on the lot in the near future to somehow combine (notice I said "combined" indicating me also contributing my financial resources) resources and coordinate mass purchasing of supplies (ICF, lumber, windows, doors, etc.....) This one is self explanitory....you get the idea. What is wrong with this?
3)Sharing contractors lists so we can get more bids to save money and pick the quality contractors. What is wrong with this?
4)Brainstorming with other owner/builders.....more heads are better than one. What is wrong with this?
Now there is my plan.....I would have equal risk (including financial resources) and equal benefit also!
Mike
PS: Just to give you a idea of my character.....8 years ago I got into a accident rehabbing my building. Due to this accident I lost my business and ended up over $70,000 in debt. For 8 years I have payed off that debt on time (currently 100% paid off) eventhough it brought hardship to my family and I. I could have taken the easy way out and claimed bankruptcy as most people do....including possibly some of the members of this group. Enough said!
I applaud you for paying off your creditors. That's honorable. I've been there too and done same even tho the legal beagles said take bankruptcy. There's a feather in your cap.
But right above here you campared your first post to a sales ad
"(Example: Someone puts up a ad "Bar for sale".....do you think he puts in the ad all the financials from A-Z......I think not. He puts a basic vague overview. When the prospective buyer calls, he gives them all the info then."
Sales ads are not welcome here and that is what you appeared to post and what you compared it too. We did the same and that is called spam here.
3)You may not care much for my advice but asking for multiple bids is not the way to find a quality contractor. Read a few threads around here and you'll learn something about that. It'll just net you the cheapest bidder. Then he'll have to figure out which corners to cut on you to meet his bid.
4) Breaktime is a great way to brainstorm with some of the finest builders in the country. It sounds like you've got a thick enough skin to handle it..
Excellence is its own reward!
Mike,
Good response.
First, Piffin was not calling you a spammer. He was telling you that spammers are not welcome here. Consider it a warning not to spam. Not an accusation. If you are not a spammer, then the statement would have no more meaning to you than the statement that porn is not allowed here.
You have heard the statement before... "It was not what you said, but how you said it".
Those here who have asked you for some explanation of your intentions have done so not because of what you have said, or left unsaid. But rather because of the manner in which you presented yourself.
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
Luka:
Let's not kid ourselves, let's call a spade a spade....he addressed me by "biz" in the email. He was calling me a spammer and that this is not welcome here (that is how he presented it). Why the need for a warning (especially porn)? When and where did I give anyone the impression that I was promoting porn? How did porn get in the picture?
I pesented myself very well. My only mistake was that I forget to mention I was a owner/builder. If anything, factless assumptions were made about me. By the way, I have asked piffin questions that he has not directly answered. Why? He is the one avoiding my direct questions and instead attacking my character. And why are you so hard-up to back him up no matter how wrong he was in this matter?.....are the two of you such good friends that it didn't matter if he was wrong or not?
Golly Mike, I thought I was pretty thorough. Which of your direct questions did I miss? I haven't been attacking your character, just letting you expose yourself. It's all there. You're starting to remind me of the Emporer who had no clothes. He was the only one who couldn't see himself.
Just for the record, I worded what I said in my first post very carefully, so as not to 'accuse' you but to just lay out the facts which is what I continue to do. Generally speaking, it is people who bear guilt that get defensive about something borderline like that. The innocent can shrug it off and get on with life better.
Call a spade a spade. That's funny! I do that and you get upset. My, Oh My...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 10/21/2002 1:40:38 AM ET by piffin
BIZ is a part of not only your email address, but also a part of the name you chose to use here as well, is it not ?
What exactly is it that you read into the fact that he chose to use a shortened version of your name, instead of typing out the whole thing ?
I could just as well have used any other example of a warning. That I chose porn was by chance. Directed chance, no doubt. Since porn and spam are the two most obvious examples of things not accepted on this forum.
Regardless, an example is ALL it was. No one, anywhere, has gotten the impression, nor communicated the impression that you are or were promoting porn. If you choose to read more into my words than is there, then so be it. For clarity's sake, please take another look at what I wrote.
As for the need for the warning... As I have already explained, the manner in which you have presented yourself, had/has lead to a concern that you were initiating opportunity for spam. If what you had written had given the appearance that you were initiating the opportunity for porn, the warning would have been, "porn is not allowed here". If it had appeared you were initiating opportunity for commercial advertising, the warning would have been, "advertising is not allowed here". See how narrowly all that follows along the path that is readily apparently set out by the intial posting ?
You may assume that you presented yourself very well, if you wish. But that is a singularly myopic assumption, when you consider the reaction that every person who has responded, has shown. If your presentment of yourself was so well done, why has every reaction been negative ?
What factless assumptions were made ? Seriously. I would like to be sure that no one has made any such assumptions. If there is something that I have missed, I would like to be made aware of it. Likewise with direct questions to Piffen that he has ignored. I don't see any. I don't think that Piffen has intentionaly ignored any questions you have asked him. Maybe if you will point them out to me, I can help with an answer or two myself.
As for attacking your character, he has made statements which he has in one way or another backed up. If he claims that you have an apparently uncommon approach to your sex life, and you respond saying that you are proud to be exactly what he claims... then where is the attack on your character ? If you are proud of the facts which are presented, then where is the attack in presenting those facts ?
"Hard-up to back him up". I will neither make an assumption here, nor read anything into your words that you did not intend. I will simply ask, what did you mean by that ?
He is wrong in your eyes only. Yes, he is a friend of mine, but you can believe that if I thought he was wrong, I would tell him so. While I would not approach the discussion in the manner that he has, I do not disagree with the basis which his approach is founded on.
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time
lived in phoenix for 7 years,i did all the woodwork at the "Diffrent Pointe of View" mountaintop resort. for the gosnell development company . Phoenix it's the land of the scam ............ and i'm getting a familiar odor even through the puter' here . stick to your local resource's , this is not a sales platform. takecare, goodluck.........
nobody said it was a sales platform...you assumed it! And you know what they say about when you assume
Well then lay that story straight out here so we can see....
After all , this is you very first post here. You have no background of a reputation for integrity here. We're open to good news, but like Luka said, So far what you've shown stinks.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 10/20/2002 11:19:57 AM ET by piffin