All
Does anybody use Craftsman National Estimator cost books?
I down loaded the National Insurance Repair and Renovation Costbook a couple of months ago for about $25.
I have mostly been using it to work along side my normal estimating method.
Does anybody rely on this to quicly put out estiamtes?
I would appreciate any comments.
http://craftsman-book.com/products/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=39
Rich
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Replies
All
I guess the answer is no.
Rich
I tried a decade ago..it wasn't all that helpful except helping me rememeber things like subfloor adhesive and stuff that youcan easily forget in a est. The pricing wasn't near right and with flucuations so frequently after hurricanes and such..I couldn't place a lot a faith in it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Sphere
I guess I feel like a need a resource to help with the labor end of estimating.
Excessive optimism sometimes.
Or if I wanted to punch out a SF # really fast. I don't like to do ballpark #s.
They currently update the electronic version monthly for free for 1 year.
The last time I checked cost / stud and /sq of shingles was almost identical to my local lumber prices.
Rich
I use it.
I have the CD's.
haven't updated them in a while ... this is actually my second set.
first ones couldn't be updated anymore ... so I went with them a second time.
some stuff seems high ... some low ... but I too like having a second set of numbers to compare against on something new. I also have those "project estimator" bboks they sell at HD and Lowes ... have whole projects ... Interior and Exterior.
Those are good for pulling out and showing a customer real quick that $15K might be more than they expected for a bath remodel ... but the books $8K average is way higher than their $2K expected!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
JeffBuck
Yesterday I bought access to the site for 1 year ($64-69) the CDs are $10 extra.
I can download any of the 11 cost books. So far I have downloaded Construction and Framing and Finish. I already had Nat. Insurance and Repair.
They will automatically update every month. You can even update estimates you have already done.
I am going to give it a try this year.
I can handle $69 cost once a year.
Rich
I may have to revisit them. Of late I have not had the need tho'.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I have been using the NCE for several years. Download all 11 cost books for $64 plus $10 for backup and get a 10% off discount code in their ad in the back of Fine Homebuilding!
Here's the trick for me. Common sense and experience. I just did an estimate in the insurance cost book for a flooded, finished basement. The crew that dried it out cut off the bottom 10 inches of insulation and drywall. I upped the hours on the 105 square feet of drywall install and finish until I was happy.
Installing and taping 105 linear feet of 1 foot high drywall means, ALL butt joints AND on your knees. So when the adjuster called with his EXACTIMATE number for 105 sq ft of drywall and tried to get me to buy his number, I referred him back to the explanation lines of my drywall estimate. He read the comments and agreed with my number.
Now, had I done my estimate by hand or in Word, he might not have been so agreeable, but a professional looking estimate, computer printed and "official" looking cost me so little compared to the $1,000 I got the adjuster to give for for 105 sq ft of drywall!
HandyDave
Handy Dave
I have been taking numbers out of NCE and building a spreadsheet that can run parrellel to my regular method of estimating.
So if I have 500 SF of drywall on sheet #1 where I have my lumber yard price and I put my labor # in another column.
Running parrellel to that, when 500 SF is entered into Cell C4 on Sheet #1 then 500 SF is automatically entered into C4 on Sheet #2 with NCE prices. And 500 SF is entered into E4 for labor.
So I get what I think it should take to do the job on sheet #1 and sheet #2 will tell me what NCE thinks it should take to do the job.
Rich
Cargin,
I've been using them for 10 years. They are not a perfect source but it is sort of a way to double-check my numbers perhaps.
I currently have every estimating CD they make... I think.... Painting, Plumbing, Concrete, Heavy Const, remodeling, insurance, steel framing, or whatever they all are. I think there are 9 total.
I believe I only paid like 150 bucks to download the whole set... maybe less. The last set came with free upgrades so I haven't had to update for awhile... even though this stuff doesn't swing too drastically anyhow.
You do have to be mindful of certain material prices though.... this does not update when sheetrock and OSB go through the roof, for instance.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Pete
I am mostly concerned with the accuracy of the labor numbers.
I can estimate materials, but the labor estimate is where I need help.
Excessive optimism can suddenly overcome me when it is time to do estimates.
Rich
Excessive optimism... LOL, I know the feeling. Screw up enough and that optimism will wane.
I guess nothing really replaces experience when bidding but I do find myself often double-checking my numbers with Craftsman.
I do think their pricing is often too low and is probably based on production work by specialized tradesmen, who are more efficient.
Also, those prices are Sub-Contractor rates, not GC rates.
And then a lot of what I do is so minor in scale (compared to a major project where prodcution can occur) that the pricing doesn't work out.
For example, I am building some interior partition walls this week. Surface area of about 70 sf. Oak trim, bead board and wallpaper finishes. I doubt craftsman would get me close to $750, if I am lucky... my real price is $2,800.00. Again this is due to the fact that it is all fairly involved work with tying in and short returns and whatnot. Overnight work too.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Pete
I do think their pricing is often too low and is probably based on production work by specialized tradesmen, who are more efficient.
Also, those prices are Sub-Contractor rates, not GC rates.
Good to know. I'll make sure I adjust the /hr rate high or build in a %.
Thanks
Rich
On intermediate jobs I find myself adding 50% normally. Small jobs aren't even close... although large jobs are prety much on target. SO I guess it becomes a matter of combined experience in bidding and in using Craftsman.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
try this:
http://www.hometechonline.com/
They are printed for your area and are geared towards small remodelers.
better product IMO
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion"
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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I have Transcended the need for a Humorous tagline...
Mister T
Do you use this to do estimates? Do you have the book or the computer version?
Do you trust it?
I used to have the Hometech book, last issue I bought was in 2002. I found it to be highly variable in pricing. I could never survive on the priceing for hanging sheetrock and finishing it. But if I could get anyone to pay me what they quoted for installing some plumbing stuff I'd be happy.
With the book, they gave you the $ cost for labor but not the #hours. If I had the hours then I could plug in my own labor rate.
With the Craftsman you can change the rate per hour, your markup, your profit.
Last time I checked Hometech was about $500 for the computer version. Craftsman gives you 11 different costbooks for $69 and updates for 1 year.
Neither one is worth a thing if it is not accurate.
The computer version is handy and quick, but sometimes i just want to have a book in front of me. That way it would help me to find it on the computer.
I was fooling around at noon and I did an estimate for Gene Davis I'll post it below.
This is not the version you would give to the customer, but you can take from here and develop an estimate to give to the customer.
Thanks for responding, I like to talk about estimating methods.
Rich
I have the remodeling book this tear last year I got the kitchen and bath book and the handyman bookthe handyman bbok is good for those small jobs because it adds for all the extra PITA stuff that cant becovered by a flat rate or an hourly rate.I use it so do the last two guys I worked for and another guy I know on his own now.It is pretty accurate but with any estimating book you have to use your own judgement to adjust things.I have a craftsman book from 2005 and will refer to it for things I don't find in the Hometech book. but just as a guide..
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"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
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I have Transcended the need for a Humorous tagline...