Hi!
I have a 60 year old maple floor that i have stripped down and sanded. For a finish i have chosen linseed oil for two major reasons. 1) this is a very high trafffice area and i don’t want to re-sand the floor every three years and 2) i have two 70lb+ dogs with long nails who love to scratch floors.
Does anyone have any tips on applying linseed oil? Can i do it progressively or do i have to do the whole floor at once to avoid seams?
Any advice/experience would be apprciated. Thanks!
Edited 2/16/2007 9:15 am ET by EKLSE
Replies
I love linseed oil, I think nit is the most perfect wood finish.
I personally would not use it on a floor.
Someone with explicit experience in LO'ing a floor may chime in with mo' bettuh advice.
SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
Here ya go...have fun!
http://www.waterlox.com/site/493/default.aspx
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
If you are sold on linseed oil, be sure to get the "boiled" version. Seams won't be an issue - it is a renewable surface, and blends readily. It also hold dirt well.
I have mixed it with paint thinner to get it to spray better and/or dry quicker - some people like to add a drier as well - I have never done this.
Linseed oil will gum up if the wood is not very dry - your old floor should not pose a problem.
Just be prepared to re oil periodically... and pick out the ocassional dog hair.
I am not necessarily sold on linseed oil, it just seems like the best option for a floor that will have to be re-finished often.....i am however open to other suggestions:)
It will take a long time to cure between coats and will be easy to scratch and will need repair more often. Water lox is better than plain linseed, being plymerized or whatever they do to it, but is still repairable easily.
I would not think of using linseed if you are living there. The fumes and the length of cure time will make an untenable situation
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What piffin says is dead on. I've done floors with BLO. The cure time is outrageously long. While you can start walking on it almost immediately, it will offgas and smell for weeks and weeks and weeks. I ended up putting a layer of poly down just to try and seal in the smell.
If you want a non-film or low-film finish that is easily repaired, I'd recommend one of the wipe-on polys. They cure fairly quickly, and are usually a blend of BLO, poly and a quick drying solvent. When you need to repair, just give the whole area a scuff sanding, and wipe on a fresh, thin coat.
"If the trout are lost, smash the state."
I going to disagree a bit with the trend running in this thread so far -
IMO an oil finish would serve you well in this situation -
the odor complaints I don't really understand - BLO has minimal oder, and what there is is 'pleasant' - perhaps some of the newer water based lo-vol finishes are 'better' in regards to oder, and by all means, investigate if that is a concern -
Does anyone have any tips on applying linseed oil? Can i do it progressively or do i have to do the whole floor at once to avoid seams?
don't worry much about seams, tho I would break treatments at a board if you are going to do part one day and part next week -
slop it on, spread it out, let soak for an hour, and wipe it off (be aware that the rags used can potentually spontaneously combust - ) - the key to avoiding long 'drying' times is not to leave a film on the surface - I'd do this treatment twice, maybe two-three days apart - the second treatment will not take much oil -
the beauty/advantage of the oil is that it is not a surface film finish, rather the oil enters the top few mils of the wood and polemerizes (dries) - a good cleaning, paint on another layer of oil, wipe down and the finish is renewed -
film finishes set on top of the wood and wear out/thru in high traffic areas -
BTW, you can mix a stain with the BLO if you want -
This is an interesting conversation to me because I'm working on a similar project.
Some friends of mine and I are building a "clubhouse" in one freind's 120 YO wood frame brick warehouse. The floors are very rough, but very thick heart pine (I think...) planks. They haven't been cleaned in decades.
Some people on the floor above us did a thorough mopping with Murphy's Oil Soap on their floors (similar condition) when they moved in and it looks fine for what it is. Maybe we'd like to do ours just a little nicer.
Money is definitely a factor, but labor time and effort is not. (We're doing it all ourselves on the cheap...) So I'd be interested in some ideas about how much more Waterlox costs than bulk BLO.
I had always assumed that we were going to need to sand the floor down to get a good finish on it, but after seeing the upstairs mop job, I'm not so sure. If we could avoid sanding, that would be great since we're looking at about 3000 square feet and most of the interior finish is done.
So reading this thread, I'm wondering: Since the BLO penetrates, I'm thinking that MAYBE... we could thoroughly clean the floor, vaccuum and mop a couple of times and then lay down the BLO. What do you all think?
you'll likely be surprised at what effect a thorough cleaning will have on your floor - I wouldn't hesitate to pressure wash it, if that is an option - if not, warm soapy water and a stiff scrub brush will do wonders - pick up the water with a shop vac - be careful to work evenly, otherwise you'll end up with some areas brighter than others -
I don't know how much waterlox costs - BLO is availible by the drum if you need that much - 3000 feet? - that's probably on the order of 30 gallons, depending - that first coat will soak right in - "there's enough for everyone"
rasher!
shellac. it's cheap, butt simple to apply, and more durable than most floor finishes. (yeh I know but come and tell my 150 pound newfoundland that it won't hold up!
He has yet to need to repair claws marks. (well they're there but in the wood, the finish is still fine!)
$50.00 covers 500 sq ft. and you can be done inside of two hours putting the furniture back in place!
PLus it's the worlds easiest to repair finish I kid you not!
OK frenchy - the proof is in the pictures...let's see your floors;)
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piffan,
Daughter has my camera at her school dance, when she get's back from her sisters I'll take some pictures and post them,,, I can do that you know! <G> great big 'ol ship eatin' grin
Thanks Again Stuart!
Some one here recommended poloplaz as a floor finish. I tried it and highly recommend it.I got it at http://www.poloplaz .comI found the best way to apply it is roll it on in small areas then top it with a brush. its amazing to me how it flows out..beautifull.Its tough though, 24 dry time 3 days before you can walk on it and 7 days before you can move funiture on.. It takes 3 coats. but believe me. Its the bomb.
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Thomas Paine
Piffan,
Curse you!
see my post regarding magic smoke!
sure shellac as a good "burn in. But it is not a durable finish. It is not very scratch or water resistant. This is for use in a high traffic area. It would not be the best choice.
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Sancho,
Have you tried it?
or are you just repeating what you've heard?
I have it on my floors.. it's butt simple to do a flawless job and as for durable my 150# newfoundland hasn't been able to destroy it yet! He leaves his muddy foot prints all over it and we sweep them up with a dust mop when we get around to it!
So it doesn't scratch as well as most finishes do, it's reasonably durable and insanely cheap and fast to do.
Plus and here's the real item.. If it does get scratched you simply dampen a cloth with denatured alcohol and rubadubdub scratch-be-gone!
Oh and in the future say 5 10 or 100 years from now to remove it you just get a rag wet with denatured alcohol and wipe it off. The new shellac will blend in perfectly with the old because the nature of shellac is that the new coat melts into the old coat..
poloplaz.. yes i have tried it..in my own home been 5 years with 3 kids, angry wife, 2 rabbit and no julie the super dog.shellac just isnt adurable ffloor finish. do they use it on gym floors? No. if not then there is a reason for that. Do they use polo plaz yes, and there is a reason for that too.you however can use what ever finish you want. it is a free country. you can mess up anything you want b/c you use it on your own home. wont find yourself being sued...yelled at by the wife..but sued no.heres some info for yaADVANTAGES1. Non-yellowing when compared to varnish and cellulose-nitrate based lacquers.2. Quick-drying. Many shellacked items can used the same day or shortly thereafter.3. Wide variety of colors available.4. Superior adhesion -- no other type finish can surpass it.5. Excellent hardness -- it can be sanded and rubbed out well.6. Excellent as a sealer coat to raise the fibers of the wood for subsequent sanding. Also seals in finishing contaminants such as silicone, waxes, dirt and oils.7. Ease of repair. Because shellac re-dissolves in alcohol, scratches and other minor surface imperfections can be invisibly repaired by re-applying shellac to the damaged area. The new shellac melts into the old shellac allowing for perfect repair work.8. Ease of removal. Old and new shellac can be removed with denatured alcohol which eliminates the need for harmful and toxic strippers.9. Can be wiped on (padded), brushed or sprayed -- all with good results.10. FDA approved -- safe for food utensils and children's toys.11. No unpleasant or toxic fumes.DISADVANTAGES1. It re-dissolves in alcohol so perfumes and strong alcoholic beverages like whiskey will mar the surface.2. Forms white rings on contact with water. This is more of a problem with shellacs that have wax and old shellac surfaces.3. Tendency to show scratches. The resistance to scratches can be improved by a simple waxing.4. Has a shelf life after mixed in alcohol.5. Not resistant to alkaline compounds. Alkaline chemicals such as lye and ammonia discolors and mars shellac because of its acidic composition. These chemicals are frequently found in household cleaning products.6. Sensitivity to heat -- shellac starts to soften at about 150 degrees F. Hot items can mar the surface.Keep in mind that some of the disadvantages, like scratching and marring with alkalis, are easily repaired because of one of shellac's great advantages -- its ease of repair.
I guess if you want a high maintence floo go ahead use it what do I care "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"Thomas Paine
Edited 2/19/2007 7:56 pm by Sancho
heres what I recommendMoisture Cure Urethane
PoloPlaz offers two different Moisture Cure Finishes, Regular and Non-Yellowing.Regular Moisture Cure Finish is an aromatic urethane and Non-Yellowing is an aliphatic urethane. Both products provide an extremely hard, abrasion-resistant floor coating. Both products cure very quickly (set to the touch in 30 minutes) and will dry hard in four hours.PoloPlaz Moisture Cure Finishes were specially formulated for wood flooring subject to especially hard use. Schools, gymnasiums, racquetball courts, and dance floors are all excellent applications.However, these products are now also used extensively in commercial and residential applications where durability is a prime concern.CHARACTERISTICSFast drying
Set to touch in 30 minutes
Surface dry in 45 minutes
Hard dry or recoat in 4 hours `
(varies with conditions)Air dry 3 mil wet film, 40% TNV, 50% Rel. Hum. 72 FAbrasion/Wear Resistance
Taber Abrasion Test
CS 10 Wheel: 18mg.'
CS] 7 Wheel: 28 mg
Hardness (sward): 38
Tensile Strength: 5000 psi
Elongation: 85% -
Impact Resistance
Direct: 160 inch pounds
Indirect: 140 inch pounds
Taber Abrasion Weight Loss
1000 Gram Load / 1000 cycles
Instron Tester Films pulled at 2 deg. per min.Formulation
Weight per gallon: 8.1 Ibs
Color
Regular: Gardner 2
Non-Yellowing: Gardner 1 max.
Solvent; Xylol-Cellusolve Acetate
Viscosity
Regular 80-120 CPS
Non-Yellowing: 75-125 CPSNOTE: Moisture Cure cans are sealed with a layer of dry nitrogen over the solution to prevent any exposure to air/ humidity during storage.DESCRIPTION
PoloPLaz Moisture Cure Finishes are oil-free polyurethanes designed to provide tough, abrasion resistant, flexible floor finishes.Regular Moisture Cure provides a low-ambering, crystal clear top coat. Non-Yellowing provides the same quality finish but with no amberingBoth products are available as a Hi-Gloss finish.FEATURESClear finish preserves the natural appearance of the substrate.Regular Finish - very low ambering.
Non-Yellowing - no amberingExcellent gloss retention for easy maintnanceSuperior abrasion and impact resistance.Chemical and stain resistant for durability in
Industrial environmentsEase of application assures quick smooth finishes,May be recoated without sanding (within 60 hours),Available in 1, and 5 gallon cans.Click here for a free quote on POLOPLAZ products.Click here for free copies of our Technical Bulletins.but you keep on telling me your product is much better and more durable
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Sancho,
High maintinance? Not so far! As I've explained to others I have a 150 pound St Bernard/Newfoundland cross who thinks he's a big puppy. He runs around like it's a Gym floor and he's playing dodge ball.
I don't care what I say to him he absolutely refuses to trim his toenails. Frankly when he stands up on his hind feet and looks down on me I really lose interest in argueing with him.. (especially if he slurps that big 'ol tongue across my face!)
Not only that but he tracks muddy feet all over!
Now I'm not saying that he doesn't damage the floors.. When he puts the brakes on and switches directions he gouges the wood pretty good.. I mean leaves real divots.. but the shellac is fine!
Even if there were notable scratches shellac is so easy to repair.. I mean you add a little denatured alcohol to a rag and rub it back and forth a little bit and Poof! scratch-be-gone!
As for the white ring story.. you really have to leave it there for a long while for a white ring to appear.. When I spill water on my floor from watering the plants etc.. I just go get a towel and wipe it up, so far no whiteness.
As for if something should happen, say you spilt your single malt scotch and didn't bother to wipe it up, well all you need to do is wipe a spot bare.. with a little denatured alcohol and then reapply the shellac. The new blends in perfectly with the old because it actaully melts together!
I can start from a bare sanded 500 sqft. floor and in less than two hours be putting furniture on the finish. That's with the proper three coat finish! While there is an unmistakable oder of alcohol while you are doing it.. it's not bad and I never felt the need for a respirator (andI use one for just about everything).. Sure I had a window open but it's really not bad.. if you can stand the smell of a hospital you can stand the oder of shellac.. about an hour after you're done the oder is pretty well gone leaving only a slightly sweet smell. that's gone by the next morning..
Nothing and I do mean nothing has the depth and richness of the look of shellac!
they came out with Satin finishes because most finishes look plastic in comparison..
If you vists a store that sells antique furniture they all have shellac finishes. because nothing else looks as good!
If you have a finish that you like for gym floors that's fine.. I don't know about slipperyness when wet or other issues that affect finishes in public places..
I do know that it is really a wonderful finish that is impossible to screw up and wonderful in application.
Plus it's cheap!!
My 500 sq ft. example cost me under $50.00 to do! That's everything including the brush!
Frenchy,
I have an architectural finishes book dates 1921 that recomends linseed oil then shellac, or just straight shellac as a floor finish.
It also has an interesting floor putty or crack fiiler made of :"Another putty or crack filler said to be exceedingly water proof , is made by mixing five parts by measure cottage cheese with one part unslaked lime kneaded together to a stiff dough. This putty will become stone hard. By the addition of mineral colors , such as raw or burnt sienna, burnt or raw umber , VanDyke brown , Venetian or Indian red, this putty can be colored to any desired shade."Radford Cyclopedia of Construction, Vol. X , copyright 1921 Now I might try this if I knew where to find.. "unslaked lime"
Just what is unslaked lime?
Edited 2/20/2007 3:25 pm ET by dovetail97128
Just what is unslaked lime?
'Stone' lime is CaO - Stone lime is developed by heating Calcium Carbonate (limestone) in a kiln at a high temperature - adding this lime to water is called 'slaking' - this union of lime and water produces intense heat and results in the formation of calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2)
check with ag chemical suppliers - or chemical supply companies -
it's hard to handle and store, absorbing water quickly -
"there's enough for everyone"
David,
Would that be the same lime that is sold for lawns or agricultural liming ? If so I can get it 2 blocks from my house.
unlikely - most ag lime is ground limestone, calcium carbonate -
I googled 'buy calcium oxide' and quite a few sources came up - mostly scientific supply houses and such- I would guess that my ag chemical supplier could get it - I wouldn't bet on it being in stock in the local wharehouse - it's semi-dangerous - quite caustic, it will burn flesh -
how much do you want?
http://www.sciencestuff.com/prod/Chem-Rgnts/C1450
12 x 500 grams
$7.19 each
2.5 kg
$24.09 each
4 x 2.5 kg
$16.08 each
"there's enough for everyone"
David,
If it was easily available I would have bought just a small amount to try out the filler that I wrote about.
I will do some checking around here and see what I can turn up. The cottage cheese is easy to find, now I just have to decide if it should be low fat or not. ;-)
Edited 2/20/2007 8:19 pm ET by dovetail97128
Seems to me that unslaked lime is sold as hydrated lime, used (among other purposes) for making whitewash. I worked in an old-timey hardware store in my youth, I remember seeing the recipe on the bags. It was sold in I think 5# bags. The stuff the chemical supply houses sell is probably reagent grade.
Anyway, it was sold in the garden supply section, so any agricultural place or farm supply store ought to have it.
Seems to me that unslaked lime is sold as hydrated lime,...
I don't think so - hydrated (water added) lime is 'slaked' lime - calcium hydroxide -
unslaked lime is Calcium Oxide -
"there's enough for everyone"
The other way around. To be hydrated, the unslaked is slaked by soaking in water.
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dovetail 97128
I know just enough to be dangerous.. I seem to remember unslaked lime as being part of the process of making cement. Can't quite remember the details, but your ingrediants sound like a real challenge to accept. Frankly I'm not sure you'd want a very hard material in wood.. Wood by it's very nature isn't hard. Hard items wouldn't provide the needed flexibility that wood demands as it shrinks and swells according to humidity.
Frenchy
""but your ingrediants sound like a real challenge to accept.""
Yes I agree, I must have read that passage in the book a dozen times just to ensure that I was actually reading it correctly. Be fun to experiment though.
"I know just enough to be dangerous."Right - got that computer working yet?;)anyway - lime is used in mortar, not in cement
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Chemistry of Cement
"The first important reaction to occur is the calcining of limestone (calcium carbonate) into lime..."
ohmygod
I got to teach piffin!
SamT:1Piffin:99000
I'm on my way! wheee!SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
Oh Sheet, I screwed up in front of frency too! I'll never live it down
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ROTFLSamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
Sam,
So should I try using the regular cottage cheese or the non-fat in the mix?
Figured I might help you get to 2. ;-)
I prefer Key Lime juice to the hydrated stuff.SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
lol ,maybe I will try that .
thats great but gimme the moisture cured eurathane any day like I said its your house you can have a do over
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Anyone ever use this product on their floors? We are condering it the next time we refinish, having seen the great results on a friend's oak flooring. I think he used their Interior Polymerized Tung Oil .
http://www.sutherlandwelles.com/floors.htm
Edited 2/16/2007 4:30 pm by pino
And while we're at it, another consideration:
I have a rental house that has some sort of finish on the floor that is starting to look bad. I'd be willing to bet, but I'm not 100% sure, that it's probably a crappy polyurethane job done by a DIY remodeller previous owner. It's possible that it's some sort of older varnish job, but I don't know.
Either way, it's starting to look pretty beat up from sliding furniture and animal claws and such. I'm kind of reconsidering a good sanding and complete refinishing. The wood itself is in very good shape.
I'm wondering now about the viability of one of these "penetrating" type finishes for this floor rather than a more typical polyurethane-type film finishes. Seems like if I had some tenant abuse to repair, that it'd be a lot faster and easier to fix blemishes in an oiled floor than a varnished floor.
In terms of rental properties: Anyone want to compare/constrast cost/benefit ratio of penetrating versus film-type floor finishes?
Thanks!
We have used the same product on a project we are now working on. We have been walking on it and working on it while doing the rest of the finish work. Given the recent weather there is inevitably some moisture getting on the floors.
Our normal procedure with varnished floors is to sand, apply two coats, do the rest of the finish, screen the floors and apply the final coat at the end of the job. We try to minimize the traffic on the floors but we have to do the rest of the work. It can take months. We do not baby the floors. They always look good at the end. We are treating the oiled floors just the same. So far they seem okay.
Our floor finisher, who has fifty years of experience, did not like the product but he is not the most flexible person. He felt he got poor instructions from the company and that he pretty much had to figure things out for himself. The floor looked fabulous when he was done. Time will tell if it stays that way and if it is as easy to refurbish as is claimed.
BLO will not offer your floors any protection. As somebody suggested in an earlier post Waterlox is a excellent choice. I have used it and love it for floors. Another suggestion is good old shellac. It was used in the old days and is great for floors. Visit the Knots board and make a post to Frenchy about the use of shellac on floors. The guy is a wealth of info on this.BTW, you do not have to resand your floors every couple of years, routine maint. like re-applying the finish will do.
If you know lineseed oil then u must know about the fire danger from the rags and spontaneous combustion. FHB had a terrible true story about people putting finishing touchs on new house last thing they did was linseed oil the floors and that was liyerally the last thing they did to that house. My neighbors almost did same thing but caught themselves and found the rags hot to touch.
BLO will not offer your floors any protection...
now, c'mon -
how can you promote an absolute statement such as this?
we can debate the merits of polemerized oil saturating a few mils deep in a wooden board, vs a couple of mils of plastic setting on top of the board- indeed the nature of the surface is entirely different - but your dismissive declaration is patently thoughtless -
"there's enough for everyone"
Just for the sake of this conversation ..
I seem to remember that nearly all the old shools that I attended as a child had wooden floors that were maintaned using LO and wax.
Any body else ? If not LO then what were they using.
I am talking schools built from say 1920-on until the early fifties.
I don't know about the schools, but I refinished my old white oak floors with danish oil and paste wax. Danish oil sets up a bit harder and faster than linseed oil. It's basically part linseed oil, part varnish. 3 or 4 coats of that, depending on how thirsty the wood is, and then paste wax buffed in every 6 months or so.
It's real slippery those first few days after a wax, watch out.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I stand by my statement, BLO is not suitable for floors. Shellac or Waterlox is a better finish.
Sounds like you're waffling here - "not suitable" is a big step down from won't give any protection.I'll agree that Waterlox is better, but it is still essentially a linseed oil product processed a step further.
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Waterlox is not linseed oil processed a bit further, though to be completely clear one must say which Waterlox. The company makes three kinds of traditional resin varnisn Satin, Original/Sealer, and Gloss both in original and VOC compliant versons. When the term Waterlox is used without qualification usually original/sealer is what is meant.
Waterlox is not an oil at all, nor is it an oil/varnish mix, it is varnish, with enough thinner added to make it suitable for wiping on. (Varnish uses oil as an ingredient but after the heat induced chemical reaction with the resins it is no longer an oil, but is a new compound, varnish.) Moreover the primary oil used as an ingredient is tung oil, not linseed oil.
As a varnish, Waterlox will be dramatically more protective than linseed oil. Part of this is because it can be allowed to build a film on the surface rather than having any excess thoroughly wiped off as with linseed oil. Linseed oil won't prevent water spots and it won't protect wood from dents or scratches because cured linseed oil is softer than the wood. It does give an attractive color.
You may be totally right about all of that. I was going by what I'd read once before, but Waterlox the company is famous for being totally closemouthed about exactly what it is made up of, so I'm wondering how you know...Not a challenge, just a question.I totally agree with your last paragraph
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I want to address the situation described where the oil finish 'attracts dirt' - this is an issue if too much oil has been left to dry/cure -
slop it on, let it soak, wipe it off - wipe it off well - if free oil sets on top the wood, it'll be gummy/sticky -
different people have made good points about the differing nature of various finishes - I'd certainly agree that there is no single finish that is suitable for all applications -
there was a time 30 years ago when I did a lot of sanding/refinishing of floors - for myself and others - - polyurethane was the finish of choice at that time (at least I thought so) - I have not seen a single one of those floors that has aged well - and because of the nature of the poly, the only way to renew is to sand and refinish - a big deal -
perhaps the new poly's are better, but I doubt I'll ever use it again -
"there's enough for everyone"
be and that's a fact!
is it Saturday yet?
Waiting for some floor oils to dry is like...
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I think I first saw in info in Bob Flexner's Understanding Wood Finishing but it is stated directly on the Waterlox web site. They have a pdf download that they title a White Paper (or technical discussion) on Hardwood Flooring Finishes. Well down in the document in a paragraph headed Waterlox Tung Oil Finishes spells it out. Try this URL
https://www.waterlox.com/Portals/Documents/654bf579-4862-4bc1-9ab3-c4498901e5e3.pdf
It also discusses shortcomings of oil as a finish.
"your dismissive declaration is patently thoughtless -"No, it most definitely isn't!It's thoughtlessly patentSo there!;)Your comments about odor struck home with me. I love the smell, but I get to hear plenty of complaints of the opposite opinion too, so that's a matter of taste - OK, Matter of olfactory opinion
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Your comments about odor struck home with me
ya - I had the thought later that some people cut the oil with turpentine or mineral spirits for better penetration - under those circumstances I can understand odor being an issue -
"there's enough for everyone"
I used a moisture-cured urethane on my wood oak floors. After 9 years, not many scratches. I had a 110 lb dog for about 4 years and now have 5 bassets. Very durable finish. Benjamin Moor sold it. They said it was used as a commercial sealer in kitchens and the like. Do not clean with acid and it will last a lifetime
I used a moisture-cured urethane on my wood oak floors<<<Moisture cure WAS the BEST!!!
All really poisonous things usually are...lol.
Can't buy it anymore : )
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The product I used was in a black and gray can, said Industrial Maintenance Coating. This is still available at Benny Moore, checked a month or so ago, $42 dollars a gallon. Cut is xylene.
Hey, at least you can still get Waterlox! In CA there is one distributor in the whole state, and all they sell is quarts. Doesn't meet VOC regs.
OOPS - all that's legal in NY post 12/31/2006 is quarts. Any stock left in store has to be gone by 3/15 - stock up now!!!
https://www.waterlox.com/site/457/default.aspx
Of course, they do claim to have a VOC-compliant version, but I haven't seen anyone's VOc stuff come close to the original. If you have used it (the compliant formula) I'd love to hear how it's worked out for you.
In my living room I bought my wide pine plank flooring from Carlisle Floors http://www.wideplankflooring.com/wood-floor-installation.aspx
and they sell their own brand of waterlox-ish but I believe its mainly Waterlox with their name on it cause I saw Waterlox on the back of the label.
BTW...That company is way over priced so I'm not pushing them. I found a way better company for the rest of my house.
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I've used the compliant Waterlox. Read the MSDS. The fluorinated solvent they use to bypass the regs is nasty stuff, and expensive. The product works fine, but I'll be buying quarts of the original instead. One plus is an unopened quart stays a lot fresher than a half-empty gallon, even with using Bloxygen.Bill
I formulated a special floor finish, ultra durable, a breeze to apply, quick curing and long lasting. It will be added to a MAJOR manufacturer's inventory and heavily marketed. You may have caught the Superbowl ad. I call it "Carpenter Ant Oil". Binds instantly to wood because...it is wood, naturally digested by the ants.
Contact PT Bartum for a prospectus.
Not available in China.
Yer kidding, right?
Just checking....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
If linsee is at all like Tung oil keep it away from floors, nevers seems to dry, no shine eaither attracks dirt too
no shine eaither attracks dirt too<<glad you said that...and I thought I was hullucinating...well maybe that too but I think it attracts dirt as well! How ever possible that is...
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The not drying is why you cut the boiled linseed oil 50% with turpentine.
SKLSE
May I suggest another course of action?
Linseed oil has many weaknesses, no doubt you've read them..
Choose shellac instead!
Yep Shellac!
I'm serious!
I have a 150 # newfoundland who absolutely refuses to clip his own toenails, and trust me you just don't want to get in an arguement with him on the subject.. when he stands up he's taller than I am!
I digress.
Anyway In spite of his best efforts at tearing up the floor, he's yet to make a mark in the shellac!
Here's how simple it is to do. since the floor is already sanded.. take a rag and wipe off the dust..
now go to Home depot or some big box store and buy a gallon of Zinzzlers. blond shellac.. and while you're there pick up two gallons of Denatured alcohol and one of those 3M snding sponges the yellow one that's 220 grit.
Here's the prices I pay. The shellac is $23.95 and will cover about 500 sq ft. the denatured alcohol is $9.95 a gallon
pick up a big ol' house painter brush, or if you want to splurge buy a lambswool applicator on a stick so you don't have to bend over to apply it.
(you can also use a pad but it doesn't hold as much so you'll be dipping it back into the can a lot more) Or a rag if you are really cheap as I am.. I was going to apply it with my socks but the idea of stepping in a cold can of shellac turned me off.
Now go home open and stir the can of shellac. about a minutes worth of stirring should get everything raised up off the bottom. mix one part of shellac with two parts of denatured alcohol.. (please do not substitute anything.. denatured alcohol!!!!!)
and now just flood it on!
Do it really quick! don't even worry about runs or drips or anything.. make it the INDY 500 of painting!!
Quick is really important, neat doesn' matter as you'll see in 15 minutes
It's now dry. I know, cool isn't it? 15 minutes! grab that sanding sponge I told you to buy and give it a lite sanding. I mean a real lick and a promise kind of sanding! average about a second to a second and a half per sq ft. big fast sweeping sanding covering a lot of area quickly.
All you are doing is knocking down the nibs that are raised after the sheallac dries..
Slop on the second coat.. it will melt right into the first coat so any runs, drips, holidays, goobers etc. will blend right together!
wait a half an hour and give it another really lite sanding with the same old sponge.. now it should take you less than a second per sq.ft. I am really speaking about a lite sanding job..
slop on the third and final coat. wait at least an hour before you turn your dogs loose on it..
OK so you scrtached the finish. Grab a rag and some of that denatured alcohol and with a slightly damp rag teeach your dogs to rub back and forth for a few seconds..
and abra-cadabra scratch be gone!
a year or 5 or 100 from now you'll want to refresh the finish, grab that rag the dogs have been using to repair scratch marks and soak it with denatured alcohol and rub back and forth for a few minutes and you now have bare wood!
Couple of pointers.. don't spill your single malt scotch if you do grab a towel or something and wipe it up.. if it lifts too much of the shellac up brush on another coat. It will blend right in and make an iinvisable repair!
A little water won't hurt as long as it's quickly wiped up.. if you leave it the shellac will turn white and you'll have to wrestle with the rag the dogs have been using to get it away from them in order to wipe off the white and apply a fresh coats of shellac, (local area only remember it blends in for an invisble repair..
If you get shellac on your clothes, don't dispair it will come out in the wash!
shellac is very friendly.. it's not only safe to eat, drug companies coat all pills with it, and whenever you take pills you get healthier so shellac is good for your health! ;-)
Alcohol is the same stuff you drink but it's been denatured so high school kids don't get a cheap drunk! 2% of something unfit for drinking has been added so please don't drink it. If you are hypersensitive you can wear a paint respirator. I am to most things but shellac doesn't bother me... Open a window if the fumes bother you..
In a few minutes the air will clear out leaving only a slightly sweet smell and even that will be gone by moring
Questions?
Frenchy,After reading your posts here and on Knots and some other reading as well, I've decided to give shellac a try on my hardwood floors. I like the fact that it's more easily repaired than poly and dries faster.Stopped in HD and picked up the alcohol, shellac and lamb's wool applicator on a stick (don't want to bend over). Being on Long Island I guess I have to pay a little more than your prices - the shellac was $30 and the alcohol was $13.50/gal. You mentioned Zinsser Blond but they only had Zinsser Clear. Is it the same? Blond = Clear; Amber = Orange??? Here's what I got:http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=31On the can it says it's a 3-lb cut, so if I mix 2 gals. of alcohol to 1 gal. of shellac I will have a 1-lb cut. Is that a good ratio for this application? I wasn't sure if you started with a 3-lb cut. How long can I store the thinned shellac considering the cans I have are 1-1/2 years old now? Should I return it and find some 'younger' shellac? Zinsser says it's good for 3 years, but it seems other suggest only 1 year.Thanks,
Jerry
Jerry 18
That sounds like the stuff. As to mix ratio I mixed a little more alcohol than that with mine.. more alcohol doesn't make it better, just easier to apply and less likely to have problems..
If you can paint fast and accuritely then go ahead and mix it to those proportions. I can't.. I'm the worlds sloppiest painter. so I mix overly thined shellac and never have a problem.
The real secret to a great shellac finish is thin coats! This is a case where the thicker the coats the more problems crop up.
It dries lightening fast! Don't ever plan on going back to touch up! Get it on and keep moving. If you miss whole spots don't worry about it! The next coat will cover them up and you'll never know!
Now how do you intend to sand between coats? If you have a really big area and don't mind spending a few bucks you can buy a DA palm sander and really get the job over quickly or you can use the sanding sponge that 3M sells for a couple of dollars..
As to brands of palm sanders. I found that Mikita is the quietest, fastest ands so far takes the most abuse.. Do not buy a Royobi. Noisy, awkward, and quick to fail.. (experiance) I like the round velcro ones that have the self sticking sanding disks, not that you'll need to replace the disks. Heck I did over 1000 sq.ft with just two and if I'd done the whole thing at one time I could of sanded it all with one! (220 grit)
Turns out that you've hit on a little trivia bit.. I was buying shellac at the "old price" the cans were that old, so I'd be inclined to go right ahead with your 1 1/2 year old shellac. You can quickly find out by mixing a small amount and putting it on a small area.. If it dries in 15 minutes it's just fine. if not a few minutes with denatured alcohol will wipe it right up and you can start fresh. Do just a small area at first, don't worry the edge won't show. Plus it should give you a little experiance before you take the plunge.
If there is a problem Home Depot will take it back and correct it for you.. (they have recourse to Zinsslers)
Shellac is one of those undiscovered secret finishes and if you scuff up the floor fixes so easily you'll never want any other finish..
by the way, how did you sand your floor? What grit did you get to? I went right to buffing pads before I stopped sanding mine and I'm glad I did. The finer the sanding the deeper the finish. I've had friends sand only to 120 grit and while the floor looks nice it doesn't have the depth that my floor does..
Frenchy,No need to be so formal, Jerry is fine ;-)<<As to mix ratio I mixed a little more alcohol than that with mine..>>
<<If you can paint fast and accuritely then go ahead and mix it to those proportions. I can't..>>
I'm a little confused - I got the 2:1 ratio from your other post. Should I add more alcohol that that? I guess to a point, it doesn't matter - the alcohol just evaporates, right?<<Now how do you intend to sand between coats?>>I was going to try 220 grit SP on a pole sander. <<by the way, how did you sand your floor? What grit did you get to? >>I only went to 100 grit on the drum sander. Thats the finest HD had. Should I go finer? Hate to have to rent a machine again, but I will if I need to.Oh, and the shellac is only 4 mos old - a little miscalculation.Thanks,
Jerry
jerry
100 grit? Hmmm, drum sander? Ehhh! I hate to go against experts who usually that's all they go to, but If you've seen a floor done to the buffing pad compared to one done to 100 grit you'll understand what I'm speaking about.. (plus the dust they kick up is much more under control)
Next time go to a rental house and rent one of those square pad DA type sanders.. they have about an 18x24 sanding pad and they work so slick a cavemen could do it..<G> no worries about leaving grooves at start up or stopping. They make quick work of everything and they have much finer sanding papers. They stop at 120 and beyond that is a buffing pad. (which is what I used).. You can tell the differance when you look at wood that is finished with one of those compared to a drum sander..
I don't think you should try a 220 on a pole.. I got on my hands and knees for this stage.. You want to feel that the nubs are off. I use one hand to sand and the other to feel..I work in my stocking feet at this stage because the last thing I want to do is create scuff marks in the floor.. With a DA it's really just about as fast as you can move your hand. With the sanding sponge there's a lot more work involved, but about a second and a half per squre foot should cover it..
Dust off the resulting sanding dust and then wipe over everything with a tack rag.. I'm not a big fan of brand new tack rags but they will work if you wipe something first. Only extremely rarely have I had problems with tack rag goo causing issues but one burnt twice shy. Dust off the window trim with the tack rag or something.
As to more than two to one, you will know better than I what sort of painter you are.. as I said more alcohol doesn't make it better, it simply gives you more to brush it on.. that means you have thinner coats and trust me with shellac thin coats are what you want.. thick coats cause problems..
Frenchy,For this application, (kid's bedrooms) I'm going to try leaving it at 100 grit and see how it goes. (gotta git'er done!) I will probably take your advice in other areas to see the difference. I was initially surprised that I would only be going to 100 grit, but the guy at HD assured me that's how it's done. I would have guessed 220. I was very careful to remove the drum marks around the edges, so hopefully it will look OK. I will take your advice and sand by hand between coats. Thanks again for all the help; I'll let you know how it goes.Jerry
Jerry
Well since it's your kids bedroom what the heck! They will never appreciate the differance. I agree, geter' done! Tell me how long it takes you will you? I'm betting you can be finished inside of two hours, showing it off to everyone.. Since it's a kids bedroom, you might want to wait a day before putting furniture back let the shellac harden a little more to stand up to them..
When I did my first room with shellac I actually walked on tip toes and found myself shushing every one while it dried....?!?!?!
OK I admit I was worried. But inside a week of my dog running back and forth on it without damaging it I came home and went up into the billard room with my street shoes on. When I looked back over my shoulder and didn't see any scratches. I got really cocky!
Try sanding it with those new sqaure pad DA type machines it in your living room or someplace highly visable and see if you don't agree with me..
Between the second and third coat you might not have to sand.. It depends on how the floor feels once dried..
If you can still feel nubs etc.. then sand away but if the floor feels smooth save your effort..
Frenchy,Finally got the floors done and they look great! Took me most of a day, but that's really not a fair indication of the actual time spent. I put on five coats. The first one just seemed to soak right in and the fifth probably wasn't needed. I also let it dry longer between coats because I was doing other things in between. I used a hand held lambswool applicator and it was so easy to get a nice smooth coat, just as you said. I mixed the shellac to a 1 lb cut in a clean 5 gallon pail, dipped in the applicator, squished it once on the side of the pail and slopped away. Sanding was minimal and may not have even been necessary, like you said, just to take off any nibs, and there were hardly any. I have no doubt it will hold up just fine and it has a much nicer look than poly. Thanks again for all the help.Jerry
jerry18
I'm glad it worked for you..
With 5 coats you'll have a thicker than proper surface so I'm glad you waited between coats as long as you did..
Shellac just isn't one where thicker is better.
In a few years if you should notice the surface start to darken or alligator don't worry, that can easily be corrected.. just flood the surface with your lambs wool applicator with pure denatured alcohol and you'll wash some of the surplus shellac into areas where things get a little thin..
Save your lambs wool applicator.. when you use it next just soak it in denatured alcohol and it will be as good as new.. In fact the shellac that's in it now can be applied to your next floor be it next week, next year, or next century..
Cool huh? No need to clean up after yourself and yet you get to reuse your tools.. See why I like shellac?
I think the first couple of coats may have been excessively thin, until I got the hang of it. Time will tell I suppose, but it looks great now.Jerry
jerry
That certainly could be, and if not like I said it's butt simple to "fix" I sure wouldn't worry about it!
Glad it worked out for you. gonna do it again any place else?
"gonna do it again any place else? "Sure, add me to the list of shellac converts. ;-) So far, I love the stuff.Jerry
After reading this thread, I decided to try shellac on my east parlor floor. The house is a fairly rustic farmhouse, 1838, so I wasn't too fussy about "perfection." Still I'm happy with the results, and the ease of use.
Did we ever find out what the orginal poster did with his floor?
Anyway, here's a look at my efforts.
View Image
Allen
Hey, did you use an original milkpaint formula on the door and windows?
be a nice beanbag snake under the door:o)
every court needs a jester
Rez, after fussing with this place for ten years, I've decided to just "get 'er done." The fact that there's a woman living here now has a lot to do with that decision!
My original goal was to do a museum-quality restoration, taking the house back to the 1830s, and being 100 percent authentic with the visible materials. But, alas, the time has come for compromise.
The original paint (first layer) on the east parlor woodwork was linseed-oil based Prussian Blue lightened slightly with Lead White. My wife "can't live with" that brillliant blue, so we approximately matched the second layer of paint, colorwise. But using modern latex paint. (If I live long enough, I'd still like to take it back to the Prussian Blue some day).
The floor was bare wood, originally. It may have been covered, wall to wall, with a wool ingrain carpet (there are a lot of tack marks along the perimeter). At some point after 1870, the outer couple feet of floor was faux painted in a whimsical "graining" pattern, alternating flame grain and straight grain effects.
There was a large gap under that exterior door, which I've temporarily filled with a piece of foil-faced foam insulation. I slapped some paint on it for now. I don't have a key for the mortise lock, and have never had the door open. (The original rim lock is long gone).
When I finally opened the other (main) front door (accomplished easily by removing the original 1830s Carpenter rim lock ... no key for that lock either), I found newspapers from the 1940s stuffed around it!
Allen
I read your post on shellac with great interest. I have a 1916 vintage home with oak woodwork. It is stained and finished with some short of satin type finish. But there isn't a brush mark to be found (like there is when I apply varnish). It's like the trim, doors, wtc. were sprayed, but I know that they weren't.
Did they use shellac as the finish coat? I tried using denatured alcohol to initially clean some trim (which did become tacky when I wiped it.) I though I was doing something wrong later when applying the shellac with a china bristle brush because the 2# cut dried so fast (like, as fast as it hit the surface, it seemed), and left brush marks. Was I close to success without knowing it? I gave up and used a low lustre varnish, instead, which also dried almost as fast as the shellac (Benwood quick dry by Benj. Moore - a real pain to use).
How do I know if the finish used was indeed shellac. Does varnish become tacky when wiped with denatured alcohol? If I was on the right track, should I have cut my shellac down more, and finished with a light sanding and a second coat? What (brush, pad, etc.) should I apply it with when doing trim and doors?
Thanks a million!
Tom. DIA
doitall
It sure sounds like you were real close to home.. I've found that the older the shellac the more durable it is so you need to really flood the shellac with denatured alcohol and I even used some 000 steel wool to help it bite in and get off..
Now here's the really cool bit.. unless the shellac has failed you can leave it right in place. New shellac will melt right into old shellac. Yes you did have it too thick which does always in my experiance leaves brush marks and a less than satisfactory finish.. The reason I over thin shellac is because of the really instant drying properties of alcohol..To avoid that you flood it on and runs simply melt away.. Yes you will have runs, don't chase them, get to them when you get there but get there fast.. tidy doesn't count.. fast is great! do the Indy 500 of painting, slop it on and you will have tons of runs but they will blend right togather.
Wait 15 minutes. It should be dry, sand the nubs off with 220 grit. I like the 3M sanding sponge for that purpose.. Don't try to sand to perfection, remember the next coat smooths out errors in the first coat.
The second coat will take 30 minutes to dry then check for nubs again and if you don't have any and the 1/2 hour is up flood on the third and final coat..
I use a good quality badger hair type brush but anything fine seems to work well.
The whole technique with shellac is fast! If you let her fly then do a nice job of masking but any shellac you get on your clothes will come out in the wash..
Never ever go back over something.. if you miss something don't worry the next coat will melt right in and give you acceptable results..