I got the green light to go ahead with this arbor design, it should look great with their existing cape cod style home.
What I’m puzzling back and forth with is the dimensions of the posts and cross members above. The inside dimensions between posts are between 42″ to 48″ side to side and roughly 42″ front to back. The height is going to be somewhere between 7′ and 8′ tall. The model I have drawn up has fluted 6″x6″ posts with 2″ x 10″ cross members on top.
Because the structure as a whole is pretty small I don’t want it to overpower the small side walkway that it is going to inhabit. I thought that 4″x4″ posts might be a little too small though, so I went with 6″ x 6″. Any thoughts on this post size? I had also thought about cutting them down slightly, to more like net 5″ x 5″, and the cross members net 1.5″ x 8″.
I will probably tape the structure out on the ground to get a better feel, but I was checking to see if anyone out there has a better sense of proportion for a small arbor that needs a good presence without being overpowering.
I’ll attach a jpeg of the sketchup model I’ve been working on.
Thanks for the input,
Paul
Replies
Looks great as-is - don't go with smaller posts!
Forrest
This one is about the scale you're talking about - but MUCH more casual. Kids are typical size ; about four feet tall. I went out to get a better pic, but it's too dark.
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Forrest
Edited 5/3/2009 7:47 pm ET by McDesign
Thanks for the pic. It actually helped a bunch to see it in proportion to a human (especially a small human!)It looks like yours is about 7' tall or so? I think I will go a little taller because they'll be using it as their main entrance even though it goes to the side of the house.It also looks like your top members are maybe 2" x 6"? Or a little bigger? I think I'd also go just a little bigger on this one only for the formality.That's a huge help though. For some reason I found lots of pictures on line but none with a good human for reference.Much appreciated.Paul
6x6 sounds right to me. Go to Google's 3D Warehouse and pop in whatever 3D person looks right to you. They are all to scale.
You will probably see a lot of arbors and pergolas there, too, just to compare to what you've done?
Isn't SU the greatest design tool ever? Shadows, fog, grass, plants, use all the goodies to dress it up, if you want.
These two pics were done in something other than SU, but you can see the effect of including shadows, people, and the house settings.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Hey that's smart advice right there. I'm still new enough with using Sketchup that I haven't gotten into the groove with thinking how to use it most effectively.Putting in a person to scale will definitely help. And it just looks so darn cool.I do really like it as a design tool. I'm better at building in 3d than I am at sketching in 3d, but using the computer makes it so much faster to draw something up dimensionally. And it really does help with presenting it to clients. The folks I'm working for now are VERY visual people. I had remodeled their basement last year and ended up taping out everything: all the built-ins, the floorplans, door swings, even the light cast and tile patterns. (below pics)Paul
I like the toilet/fish!
Forrest
Thanks for everyone's help on this.... the arbor turned out perfect.
The homeowners love it, I love it, and even though I work mostly by word of mouth I handed out a half dozen business cards while I was building this.
Fun little project, looks great in the end, and I had it up in time for them to enjoy Memorial day without fear of their kids or dog running out to the street.Paul
Very Fine, Sir(That's better'n Good)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thank you kindly......
I aim for fine, so I'm happy when I can reach it.I like building and feel pretty confident about it, but I'm still finding my feet when it comes to design work. It's a strange (but good and humbling) feeling to be on the lower rung, at least it keeps things fresh.
Wow! Nice job. It's certainly a feast for the eye not to mention a nice addition to your portfolio.
Runnerguy
OK so my last post was a tad late. It looks great. Did not know it was a pass thru for a gate.
Gene,Good advice on putting in a person. Now with a person in there for reference I can see that the height I have for it is too high. It's close to an 8' height and feels way too big for the structure there. I'll spend some time playing around with it again, but I have a feeling I'll end up dropping it down at least 6" to 8".Man I love me some technology.Paul
"I thought that 4"x4" posts might be a little too small though, so I went with 6" x 6". "
I like it.
Nothing worse then a slim post. Structurally, perfectly sound, but upon viewing, the eye begs for collapse.
Runnerguy
Is there any way you could put up the posts and see if they look right?
I know it sounds like a pain but sometimes that is the best approach.
If you think 5" would be better then you are probably right.
I've learned to follow my feelings on this sort of thing.
Will Rogers
pop, I think I will probably put them up to see. I'll be using clear cedar (not very inexpensive!) so I wanted to make sure I was going to use 6" x 6" instead of 4" x 4". I'm pretty much convinced that 6" x 6" is the way to go, so I can at least buy them now and then rip them down if they seem a little too heavy.I'm with you on the gut thing. There's so many ways that anything can be done, it's usually best to trust some gut feeling or else you can go crazy trying to rationalize it!
First I'm no expert in any way. But I've notice there are basically two types of people that will get in the way of doing good work.
One kind is just get it done and do it as cheap as possible. Get the check and you're good. So if you talk to them about putting them up and seeing if they are right you get the look. Like you are somehow wasting time.
The other type, (and I have to watch myself on this one) thinks about all the different ways you could do it but never starts. Or starts and then gets bogged down.
I think somewhere in middle is where you can think about different designs and have the work ethic to get out there and work through your different ideas.
It's pretty amazing how few people can do this. It's not hard and you don't have to be that smart. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
It could just be the perspective, but the crossmembers feel heavy to me. You might try drawing them an inch narrower.
Pete
Pete, you're saying an inch narrower height-wise?
I might try it to see what they look like. I have it as 2" x 10" but it may be able to go down to 2" x 8"...or I can rip a little off of the 2" x 10" to get in between.This is one of those great jobs where I've done a bunch of work for these folks, and they're not concerned with how much it costs, but rather that they have someone that they trust wants to make it as perfect as possible rather than just slapping it up and collecting a check.
So I may buy the larger members anyway and test it out/cut them down, until I find that perfect sweet spot. I don't want to waste their money, or lumber, but I do want it to be just right.Paul
I think 2x8 will be plenty for the joists and I would make the bases smaller also.
I also like Forrest's arch for making it look more asthetic.
What are you going to make your lattice with?
My last 2 I have been ripping 2x4"'s and I really like the substantial feel it gives.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Andy,I might go with 2" x 8"'s, or may go a little bigger (as per above reply)I had played with arches before, but ruled them out as they had had an arched gate and arbor before but it didn't look quite right with their very linear Cape style home. I thought it looked ok, but they thought it was a little too fussy. They have a new very linear arbor out back, and I'll be pulling details off their front entry nearby (fluted columns, crown molding, etc.), so I want to keep it pretty straight.I'm with you on the lattice. I had planned on going 1 1/2" x 1/4" or 5/16". I want this to feel very substantial without being massive. That's why I'm still mulling over the top pieces. It's a fairly formal house on a fairly formal street, so I want it to feel very present but without overpowering anything. It definitely can't feel delicate or spindly, even though I don't mind that in certain situations for a /different feel.
I would ramp the adjacent fencing up to give a visual connection to the fence and earth so it doens't look like something bought at a garden center and plopped into place.
John,Are you thinking more like an exponential ramp up in height on the fence? (see the pic)I had played with that, but I don't think they want the curvature of it. One thing that may or may not help is that I may only be putting the fence on one side now. After looking at the space again with them, it looks like we may offset it, even though I'm a stickler for symmetry.I also didn't want to go that route since one of the pictures of an arbor that I liked, I found online as a prefab kit and it had that same kind of fence, but I didn't like it in the picture.But your point is well taken about it looking a little box-store-ish. I definitely don't want that. I had also given them a design with more of a frame and panel style fence and gate, but it looked too heavy for the space. I think we're going with this because it's still light and open without being chintzy.I may revisit it once I get the arbor itself built. I will be able to see the proportions in front of me and mock up the fence to check it out.Paul
Yes, that's better. If the ramp up doesn't fly what about stepping up the height of the adjacent fence to do the same? I like to see some kind of blending between the pergola and the adjancent fence and surroundings for it to look right to me. Others may disagree.
I might play around with that a bit. It's a tough call because I have a good feel for what they like and don't like. But it's always good to have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. pair of eyes and opinions because it's easy to miss some obvious things.If I have some sketchup design time, I'll mix it up a little; otherwise I'll put up the arbor and then tack up some boards to get the right look.
To give you an idea of what a 6x6 would look like check the posts of this timber garden room I'm trying to finish up for a customer this week.
Roof panels hopefully will be here tomorrow.
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http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Now that there is a gonna be a thing of beauty. I have to admit I sure do like the look of wood. (and especially with stone)I just about shed a few tears as I was putting the first coat of primer over the cedar posts. It was some of the loveliest clear VG cedar I've seen in a while. But I guess you gotta do what you gotta do.I had the posts milled out of some rough stock down to 5 3/4" square but when I got them back to my shop and stood them next to each other they looked too big. So I brought them back and had them shave off another 1/2" down to 5 1/4" and it was perfect. Any smaller would have been too small, any larger would have been too big. It's amazing that the eye and the brain can look at something like that and be able to see when it becomes just right.
I would stick with the larger post. If you have the room you should make it a little wider, otherwise it might feel a little cramped.
When I made this one I used 6X6 post's and is about 6' across.