Getting ready to change the SEP at a home – Federal Pacific, circa 1976 – needs to go away……
Have been cleaning up the existing wiring for a few days — tracing / mapping circuits, fixing open grounds, changing outlets, removing back stab connections, etc.
In the course of the work, I have discovered that one of the circuits to a small 2nd floor bedroom also feeds the 2nd floor bathroom.
Right now, this entire circuit is protected by a GFCI breaker in the panel box, and the outlet in the bathroom has a wall box mounted GFCI.
Probably just by lucky chance, the bathroom outlet is at the end of the run.
To fulfill all of the requirements, it would seem that I should install a arc fault breaker at the SEP to provide the bedroom AFCI protection and then install a wall box mounted GFCI in the bathroom outlet box.
Will this work properly – will the devices fight with each other? I am pretty clueless as to the actual “mechanics” of AFCI and GFCI’s (and probably would not understand an in depth explanation!).
Thanks in advance.
Jim
Replies
It should work fine
The worst problem is that you have to check two different places when something trips.
Corporation: n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. --Ambrose Bierce
It should work.
But be warned you might run into other problems with multi wire circuit or neutrals that have been joined or grounded.
You won't on this circuit because or else the GFCI breaker would have tripped.
But those thinks sometimes cause problems.
BTW, the last time I looked (probably 1-2 years ago) may of the cities in California made it clear that they did not require upgrade to AFCI's on a just a service change.
So you might want to check locally.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Also, if you are trying to meet code, bathroom receptacles should be on dedicated (20 amp) circuits (or receptacles and other equipment in a single bathroom can be on a dedicated circuit). So it being fed from the bedroom would be a violation.
That is why I mentioned that usually service upgrades don't require bring everything else up to current code.There are probably a dozen other places that need to be rewired..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Edited 10/17/2008 11:06 am by BillHartmann
Many thanks to all who replied.
The purpose of the SEP change is merely to remove the 1976 FedPAC SEP from service - will replace with SquareD - same 150 amp rating -- plenty for this home.
In response to some of the comments:
multi-wire circuits - none present, have opened every outlet, switch, junction box and light fixture in the entire house. Grounded everything, corrected several cases of reversed polarity. Replaced every outlet and switch.
neutral to ground - see above
dedicated 20A to bathroom - understood and was aware of this - not in the cards to change at this time
have two places to look when tripped - hope it does not trip too often since that will involve a four floor (round trip) hike to the basement if it is the AFCI.
To bring the home fully to current, new construction code will take some fairly extensive work mostly due to "too few" outlets. Later..... Most people would say "there's plenty of outlets", but I know there are several rooms with spacing problems.
DW and I bought this home to ultimately be our retirement home in 10 or so years. Meanwhile, it will be a rental property with a lovely view of the Chesapeake Bay and deer in the back yard.
Thanks again!
Jim
To fulfill all of the requirements, it would seem that I should install a arc fault breaker at the SEP to provide the bedroom AFCI protection and then install a wall box mounted GFCI in the bathroom outlet box.
Will this work properly - will the devices fight with each other?
That MAY work - it depends on the particular devices and how they are implemented. They may also interfere with each other, so that neither one functions correctly. Unfortunately, there is no practical, simple way to test if they are working together correctly or not. In any event, unless the AFCI and the GFCI have been tested and certified together, the circuit will technically not be code compliant.
A better approach would be to use an AFCI breaker that also incorporates the GFCI. Many do, because as you note the functions are similar and adding the GFCI to an AFCI doesn't require much.