Hey, Everyone-
Is it OK with the UBC to put a dog or cat door from the house into the garage?
Thanks a bunch for your input.
Dale
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Replies
If it's fire rated and self closing.
________________________________________________
"I may have said the same thing before... But my explanation, I am sure, will always be different." Oscar Wilde
plain and simple no . the are'nt. I could give you all the reasons but no
Bob & Frame Boss-
Thanks for your replies.
Dale
How can ya think 2 different people for 2 different answers?
We're back to where we started! Now I'm curious.....
betting Bob's right..........if you can find the fire proof/self close.........but maybe frame boss knows that animal don't exist?
Jeff..............Al-ways look on......the bright......side of life...........
.......whistle.....whistle.......whistle........
Here here !
I think he can do any thing hes big enough to do. I cant see an inspector saying ; " been turning down a lot of jobs over these damn dog doors ! "
But of course Im off the question . What he needs to do is read his code book.
Tim Mooney.
Hey Tim & Jeff-
Gracias to the two of you also!
I looked at the code book as Tim suggested and no unrated openings from the house into the garage are allowed. Sorry fido, you're going to have to hold it until mama gets home.
Have a good night you guys.
Dale
Edited 12/4/2002 12:59:52 AM ET by ELAD22
So now I gotta know...does the fire rated/self close dog door exist? Too late for a net search....eye's too blury from proposals...
So far...looks like everyone's been right...that's no fun.
If there ain't no doggy door for a flaming pooch.....I think we all just found our invention to retire on!
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I do have a small question, why a dog door to the garage? Do you really want your dog to do his business in your garage? I've seen dog doors from the garage to the outside, in fact I have one, but from the inside to the garage?
Just wonderin'Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
Justus,
You are obviously missing the obvious. If the dog needs to run out for a pack a smokes he obviously needs to get to the garage...it's obvious.Ditch
some folks have two dog doors: house to garage and then garage to outside. i have seen several in my nabe...
And some folks leave garage door open all day long as they putz around working in there and or the yard, so in effect the doggie door to the garage is a de facto door to the outside.
come on Mugs, that's like saying that since the kitchen light is on most of the time we should just hard wire it and do away with the switch. If the idea is to let the dog come in and go out as he pleases (which is nice for you and the dog) put the flap on the back door and be done with it.
(and for Pete's sake, please don't anybody take anything I say too seriously, this is all in good fun.) Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
LOL, you're right of course. But I do actually live that way most of the year. If I'm home and it's not too cold, the garage door is open. My wife can't stand having the inside door open for a variety of reasons. While I don't have a doggie door, the amount I open and close the inside one for the dog has had me thinking about adding one. I don't want one directly to the outside for the reason AndyC mentioned. (Though racoons is only one small concern. )
I may be way off base here, but a lot of people's entry door from their living area to their garage isn't fireproof, so couldn't you put the pet door in a solid wood entry door? Then, even if the code boogers come back at you, all you have to do is replace the door.
What usually happens is a regular door is installed between the house and garage. The house is inspected and permits signed off. Then the dog door is installed. What the inspector doesn't know about he is unlikely to complain about. This won't make the fire department any happier or you any safer and I don't advocate the method but it does happen. I have seen it done two or three times.
A safer alternative would be to install one on the kitchen door, the one not going to the garage, and install a second one in the side door that dose lead to garage. The idea being that muttly can go from garage to yard to house but not directly from garage to house. I have also seen, it was a bit unusual so I remember, a dog door installed into a regular wall. Looked to be framed as a tiny door frame with just enough room for the dog door. A thought if you don't have the necessary doors available.
so what does the code book say about a dog door in the common wall to the garage?
Same issue. Limit the dog door in framed walls to exterior ones only.
Unless the inspector had already signed off and you feel lucky.
i know, i simply restated the question, do you have specific code on this? what is the section number?
I remember watching a show once on how much carbon monoxide leaks from the garage through to the house. Sometimes it's enough to kill a whole family. Just starting the car in a garage with the door closed , and backing out almost immediately, raises the CO level in the whole house.
So why the hell would anyone want to make a hole between the garage and the house ---- is it so you can speed up the dying process? Let the dog walk. Save your kids.
code doesn't allow dog door to garage for good reason, carbon dioxide concerns are also extremely important, and doors that meet fire code don't adequately prevent CO2 infiltration. I have meticulously weather sealed such doors for clients to prevent this. I also recently installed an impressive quality thru the wall pet door for a client that came from Pet Doors USA I believe. D.
>>Just starting the car in a garage with the door closed <<
whoever does this deserves to get gassed, natural selection and all...
Same thing. All the codes say the door has to be a one hour fire rated door. If you poke a hole the size of a racoon in it, the rating doesn't exist anymore until you prove otherwise..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
piffin
the code is referring to the egress door not the dog door...
No, the code is referring to stopping a fire in the garage from spreading to the house ( and from the house to the garage with all of the gasoline, oil etc.). The door to the garage is not a means of egress, since in a fire situation with all of the smoke you may not find the little button to raise the door or the power may be out and it may not be the best idea to run to an area containing a lot of flammable products.
i was trying to differentiate the egress door from the dog house door, believe me if the fire was on the other side of the house, i would definitely go out my garage door instead of the front door, its closer!
I know what the code is refering to. When you poke a hole in the thing it is refering to, it no longer can stop the spread of fire for anywhere near an hour.
You've got mer laughing now.
This is where engineers get their ruputation for focusing on specifics to the poiunt that they miss the broader, more common sense applications..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Although this is an overseas product and the pet door does boast a 1-hour fire rating, I would be mostly concerned with insurance coverage issues verses convenience or an easily duped code.
http://www.envirograf.com/acrobat/firedoor.pdf
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right
Interesting product Dan! I didnt even start this thread and somehow incurred the "wrath of piff", only asked about whether the code specifically mentioned dog doors or not, or whether there was a product like this that seems to meet code.
Thanks Haole27 ; I’m honored to contribute.
Some prove their better left ignored.
Good Day!
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right
where do you get your mistaken belief that engineers dont have common sense? i thought we had so much common sense that we were boring nerds, so which is it piff? are we exciting, devil may care guys who lack common sense OR are we nerds with more common sense than dates?
why do you resort to bashing people who question you and make these grand psychiatric diagnoses? are you a psychiatrist in addition to being a handyman?
you have mentioned this before, how many engineers have you actually known and worked with? i dont mean the guy that is a tv repairman who claims to be an "engineer" either! i mean honest to God degreed engineers piff, in your line of work (installing closet shelves, shoe molding, removing wallpaper, installing dogdoors, etc) what possible reason would there be to consult with a professional engineer? hmm?
actually it doesnt matter, these stereotypes are ridiculous, are all plumbers fat? do all electricians smoke pot? are all framers gay? are all handymen from maine opinionated, know it alls? do you sit in a bar and constantly say" it is a little known fact"? we have our own version of Cliff Claven here folks, Piff Claven
i think that this is a way to salve your own ego as you dont have the intellectual capacity to be an engineer? so you need to tear them down, to lie in wait on this board to constantly correct and harass, you are sad piff!
Edited 12/8/2002 11:11:02 AM ET by Haole27
a little overreaction here ?... he ain't as mean spirited as you make him out... although he is highly opinionated... much more than you and me.... hah, hah, hah
anyways... i haven't read the new UBC code that RI just adopted , so mebbe you guys can enlighten me..
BUT.. in the old 1 & 2 Family code ( whiche some of my projects are still under ) the one -hour rule is gone.. has been for a couple of years.. the doors are 20 minutes and the walls and seperation are 1/2" gypsum... the old 5/8 type X went bye-bye..
so.. the one hour rule was not a universal rule..
now back to the UBC.. whadda ya know ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
...isn't this all moot? If the door were in the shape of the dog..... ala Wile E. Coyote,...... wouldn't any smoke or flames or vapors have to be the same shape too?If it is to be, 'twil be done by me..
wile..y.......
another childhood hero... perseverence in the face of true adversity
moot is as moot doesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
My goodness, Haole! How did you ever manage to get so defensive? It must be hard work to carry that chip around on your shoulder all day long.
If you go back and read what I wrote, maybe you'd be able to respond to it instead of responding to what you think I have said. If you take the time to read the little names at the top of the post, you'll see who wrote what. But let me explain it to you -
First - It ain't me who described engineers in first one way and then another. Do a little distinction instead of lumping a bunch of comments together and putting my name at the top of the list.
Second - I haven't felt or worded any wrath here. Life is too short for that. I enjoy myself. If you feel put down or slighted, it m,ight be your own ego that needs help. Remember that I'm the one who recommended that you write an article for FHB because I agree with you that many homeowners and builders need a little advice knowing how to decide when they need the advice of an engineer.
Finally - In that other thread, it was a couple other guys who made negative remarks about engineers and I played off it with a funny comment but when you asked why folks had such a negative attitude towards engineers, I replied, explaining where that perception comes from. My comment a few posts back here elaborated further, to help you understand this.
Now, if you want to demonstrate to the world that engineers are not too dry to have a sense of humour, be an example yourself, instead of screaming at every one who disagrees with you about HD, engineering, or anything else. I responded factually to your question. Instead of rationally replying with facts to dispute my answer, YOU chose to go on the attack as though from your condescending position, you thought that I didn't understand your question. You are the one who has come here showing wrath and an angry attitude.
I happen to work quite well with engineers in person, and do hire them often. My jobs range from fifteen thou to a third of a million, on homes some people only dream of walking into. I guess Maine handymen do pretty good for themselves.
BTW, You've got a hard time accusing me of low intellect. I was a National Merit Scholar, NYS Regents Scholar, top 97th percentile, top half of my calculus class at Clarkson Colege of Technology(which was rated third best engineering school in the country at the time), blah, blah, blah...
So dream up another way to hurt my feelings. That one didn't work..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
hey, piff.. c'mon.. you were a hippy roofer and glad of itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
BTW... my buddy , barry... the one with the clip-on pony tail ?
he was a hippy roofer.....came back from 'nam, didn't know what to do with himself.. wound up in Calif. working in the tracts.. he said it was quite an education..they'd drop him off in the morning.. next to a 17 sq. up & over ranch.. with a ladder and a pallet of shingles..
the first week was murder..
but after a while he figgered it out.. and he'd have it shingled and on his bike by two in the afternoon......
... learned enough to move back to westchester and stick to slate & copperMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
'ben around long enuf I _WAS_ a lot of things.
Made all my choices and glad of all of 'em.
I think this 'tude dude Haole has something worth while sharing if he'd relax a little. How 'bout you?.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
oh, yes... always eager to learn, master ..
just your humble grasshopper.. still hiring talent when i need it ... a glad there's a way to seperate the wheat from the chaffMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
;o).
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
4) I am glad to hear you went to the third best engineering school in the nation! So you are an engineer then? <----by Haeole
Hey Piff and everyone,
My guess is this is gonna get good heh heh. I'll be watchin' this thread. I'd say the L word but he's too articulate and spells well. Haeole and me have had our disputes and words but this one should be a lot better.
Be a wall
Namaste
AndyYou don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
From the "why i went to engineering school thread that you posted >>> Sorry, My off hand comment about engineers is founded in the fact that generically, practitioners of your vocation are known for being extremely specific, to a fault, and sometimes lacking in the common sense to drive a car from the street to the garage, so to speak. Then here you were, criticizing a specific while making a general error. Hope you can laugh it off. Some engineers are also known for not having a sense of humour. << posted by Piffin
After reading your reply to my post on this thread, and above comment you made on another thread, Piffin, you have made several mistatements:
1) You do disparage engineers and you do stereotype, see your above post. Piffin, I have nothing against you, but I do not agree with these stereotypes whether they are directed against engineers or carpenters. I mean what if I or someone else made outrageous statements like, "all roofers are idiots or most electricians are gay". These kind of statements are ignorant and reveal far more about the person who made them they you think.
>>I responded factually to your question<<
2) Sure you did Piffin as you slammed me for simply asking about specific code or product questions. Go back and re-read your post to me that started my response, no slam there against me and all engineers huh?
3) I never asked you why folks have negative attitudes about engineers, you may be confusing me with someone else. I did write several posts condemning stereotyping professions and vocations as it is stupid to do so.
4) I am glad to hear you went to the third best engineering school in the nation! So you are an engineer then?
5) I DO respect your knowledge Piffin, your answers are well grounded but YOU my friend attacked me (and others) on this board first! I was merely defending myself. If you dont like it then perhaps you can word your responses more diplomatically, stop stereotyping, or stop attacking. Personally, I sincerely hope you read this with an open mind and continue to share your experience with this board. Peace.
Movin on...
Haole27
Since you are movin' on we'll have to disappoint Andy.
Maybe we both misread each other and need to start over. I know you misread me so I'm willing to go it equal back at you.
My intentions were NOT to attack you but to explain the stereotype. It exists. I stated it. No emotion attached to the statement. If you want to deal with the stereotype by denying that it is out there, so be it. I can live with that.
No, I'm not an engineer. I left school to enjoy life..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Lions 3.......Christians 0
Hey, Justus and everyone-
Pretty funny comments. It looks like I'm going to get a job to make a "cat litter box room". It's going to be tied into the guest bathroom, it's fan and have rated access door into the garage.
My new slogan, "Kitchens, Baths & Kitty boxes"
Have a good night.
Dale
Simple reasons they would have to latch in case of fire not to supply oxygen and or have to be a seal equivlent to a regular door which a top hinging door usually doesn't give you. Other Issues fire caulk ..... fire rating ect.... Im' with out a doubt if you get an inspector in Mich that really knows code you won't get by.
we used to have a 'cat' door to our garage, but had problems with a couple of raccoons that didn't respect the designation. It's pretty amazing to watch a fat raccoon as big around as a basketball squeeze through a little kitty door..........
I had to read this post cause the house I just bought has a doggy door (that my cat uses). I came downstairs yesterday night cause I heard loud noises. Brought down my shotgun with my heart pounding to find two huge racoons in my garbage can. They ran right back out the doggy door when I flipped on the lights. I think my hearts still racing.
Be well
Namaste'
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Well if the racoons are using the doggy door, your basement opening must be a lot better than it was recently? Our doggy door goes from entry to yard, and anything using it has to get by the dog, if they can do that then welcome home!!
Dan
Andy,
haha that is funny stuff!