Replies

1. 
   MisterT | Oct 07, 2006 02:28pm | #1

   nothing quick about THAT question....

    

    

    

   Namaste

   "The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character." -Big Cal Stew 2006

   "There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who divide the world into 2 kinds of people and everyone else"   -Gloria Steinham

   "The shrub administration is a bunch of Focking CrIminals" -Me

   Well lemme tell ya li'l cowpoke...

   when a snake falls in love with the spaghetti, it's time to buy a new hat... - Scott Adams

   I may not want to admit it but I'm a fool for your stockings I believe... ZZ-Top

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 07, 2006 06:45pm | #6

   lol...everything about the question was quick....short and to the point  :P

   I think you are referring to the answer not being so quick.

   how bout ..yes, no.... or sometimes  :)

   Edited 10/7/2006 12:01 pm ET by alrightythen

2. 
   DonCanDo | Oct 07, 2006 02:44pm | #2

   Well, for the potential customer it's free...

    

    

   ...unless you actually get the job.

3. 
   MikeSmith | Oct 07, 2006 03:14pm | #3

   we don't give Estimates..

   we charge for preparing Proposals

    

   big difference

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
4. 
   MSA1 | Oct 07, 2006 05:29pm | #4

   Depends, want me to look at your bathroom? Not a big deal. Your whole house and i'm spending two days on the estimate, gonna cost you something.

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 07, 2006 06:50pm | #7

   So  in a bigger scenario, how do you charge it...up front they will pay you x dollars for a propasal?

   do you base it on time or have a flat rate depending on size of proposed project?

1. 
   MSA1 | Oct 07, 2006 07:58pm | #9

   I dont do as many full renovations as i'd ike to but i've heard it mentiond around here that $500 for a full proposal is not out of the question. Seems fair to me. If i'm spending a day working on your numbers its still time just as if I was framing your addition.

5. 
   PAH | Oct 07, 2006 05:54pm | #5

   Some are "free" while others, typically the more involved hydronics systems, carry a design fee. If we're awarded the work, those fees are often reduced or eliminated - depends on the size, dollar volume and complexity of the project.

   In all cases, the costs are included in the proposal. We don't get all of the proposals we submit, so that portion becomes overhead. Each proposal is categorized by type of work and they eventually create templates to facilitate quick proposal turn-around time. No sense repeating the same tasks if they can be consolidated or eliminated.

   For complicated renovations (I'm heading out for one to unravel next week), we charge consultation fees.

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 07, 2006 06:57pm | #8

   you sound like you have it togeher...I'm reading "running a successful construction company" BY Dave Gertal" which was recommended to me here on BT. You sound like you are right out of his book. ( as one of the good examples)

   "Each proposal is categorized by type of work and they eventually create templates to facilitate quick proposal turn-around time. No sense repeating the same tasks if they can be consolidated or eliminated."

   I'd like to know more about your process for creating your templates...if you have the time that is...

   Thanks for your feedback.

1. 
   PAH | Oct 07, 2006 09:09pm | #10

   I keep all proposals in a "folder" and within that, I have sub-folders for each category.For instance, my hydronics sub-folder for new boilers holds proposals for steam, hot water - standard eff, and high-eff condensing modulating units. Say you're a potential (or previous) customer looking for a quote (I don't give estimates - I give exacts) for a new hot water boiler and you've got standing cast iron radiators. My quotes are categorized, so I can pull up any of the ones where the system characteristics match. In them, the customer receives a number of good, better, best options (much like a menu) and they have control over which one best fits their budget. It's not yet my money, so the choice is theirs!I'm often surprised (pleasantly) to see they've chosen the best of the options. In order to get them to that point, it's necessary to provide them with the proper tools regarding the ROI (return on investment) the best option presents. That means a fair amount of time invested in research on my part with detailed cost analysis. Pull up the closest fit, change the name, update pricing and print. We're a 106 year young mechanical contracting firm. Thanks!

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 08, 2006 03:27am | #11

   I like that... Good -better - best.

   I find that when I do trim for example. to do it the way I want can be very time consuming if you start scribing for floors, coping joints  etc. whereas alot of guy will give them a price to throw it up.

   how can I compete with that unless I explain the options and difference, and give them the choice, along with the price.

   Thanks PAH for the good feedback

   EDIT: that's not to say that I'm going give them something that looks like crap, for a few lousy bucks, because when I leave my name will still be on it.

   Edited 10/7/2006 8:31 pm ET by alrightythen

1. 
   nikkiwood | Oct 08, 2006 06:44pm | #14

   <<"how can I compete with that unless I explain the options and difference, and give them the choice, along with the price.">>I'd call that the "educational" component of the sales pitch. If you're pitching your work to the high end, I think it's important to be able to explain what that means to a potential customer; that is, you need to be able to articulate and then "sell" the value of what you're doing.I lot of people don't know what a "quality" job consists of. But once they understand, they are willing to pay for it. On the other hand, some don't really care, and they are looking for the cheapest price. In that case you will have to decide if you are willing to compromise your standards, or if it would be best to walk away from the job. All of this is a delicate balancing act, and depending on the nature of the job at hand, you sometimes have to walk a fine line. If you're doing remodeling work, you can tell a lot just by walking through the existing structure. I work mostly in turn-of-the-century houses, so it is pretty easy to convince a client that should not do hack work in a house where so much craftsmanship has been invested.But in any case, before you start making statements, you need to ask questions about what their expectations are. Once you have a good idea of where they want to go, then you can tailor your pitch to what you have determined are their wants/needs/budget.********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

2. 
   alrightythen | Oct 08, 2006 07:56pm | #15

   I appeciate you good feedback.

   right now I've got a mix of clientel. I am just starting out on my own. Having just built my own house, with my background being a framer. word has got out about what I can do and my phone won't stop ringing.

   alot of work is from people I know and don't live in high end homes. They appreciate the level of work that I do but can't necessarily afford the all out approach that I like to take. nevertheless, thus far I've been able to provide a fairly high level of work considering the circumstances.

   I will definately apply what you said as I look at different jobs.

   thanks again.

6. 
   AJinNZ | Oct 08, 2006 01:41pm | #12

   quick question answer.....

    

   Yes

    

   But,......if you dont get the job, you lose. Get a bunch of tire kickers you can rapidly find yourself working 2 jobs and getting paid for one.

    

   I started charging for doing them. those that wouldnt pay were never going to give you the job anyhow.

   Recently I didnt charge as I needed to get more work coming in to keep the guy I hired busy.

   Backfired. 3 in a row were time wasters. Wont be doing that again.

    

   Not an exponent of the DILLIGAF system.

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 08, 2006 06:37pm | #13

   so how much would you charge for doing an estimate...I guess it depends on size of job, so do you base it solely on time?

1. 
   AJinNZ | Oct 08, 2006 10:14pm | #18

   I base it on time taken to work it out for them, go and see the job etc.

    

   I also tell them right at the start when I call round to look at the job that there is a charge for the quote. I show them a sample one, explain the reason for the charge and the benefits of getting a quote prepared in such a way ( for the info it contains for them ) etc.

    If they wont bite I walk. I loose maybe 20 minutes and avoid spending 1/2 my nights in the office.

    

    

     

   Not an exponent of the DILLIGAF system.

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 08, 2006 10:54pm | #19

   that all makes alot of sense... do you find that most of your quotes turn into jobs when you come at it with that approach? obviously they ( and you) will get an intitial feeling for if you seem like someone they may want to work with.

   also what kinda of jobs do you do?

1. 
   AJinNZ | Oct 09, 2006 08:22am | #22

   Doing it the way I do doesnt by any means assure me of the job, but I get enough comments on the WAY the quote has been prepared leave no doubt that it is well worth the trouble.

    

   The ones who want a job done right and are prepared to pay a realistic price for quality will most of the time accept.

   The cheap ones wont and were never going to. The idea of telling them of the charge is to weed them out right away.

    

   The ones who sit in the middle area.......when I was keeping track of it, I was getting 4 out of 6.

   My prices have gone up since then and I havent kept score either.

    

   However......if my numbers say a job cost 'X'.....then it does. No amount of gasping, looking for cheaper or any other stunt by the customer will change it. If I drop it.....the difference comes right out of my wallet. The whole point of going to work like this is to make a living, not make it easier for someone else to at my expense.

   some people give me a bad feeling and I step away from those. Usually I get the impression that I will either get screwed or that the process will be so stressful as to make me wish I never saw them.

   with those ones, trust your gut. It rarely lies.

    

   I do all kinds of work. Lots of bathroom re-fits, install some showers, do some house extension stuff, just completed a large renovation on one......in summer I might do some decks, the odd fence/gate etc.

   Whatever comes and makes the money is OK.

    

   A variety keeps the skills active and prevents boredom. 

   Not an exponent of the DILLIGAF system.

2. 
   alrightythen | Oct 09, 2006 08:57am | #23

   Thanks for response...I'm learning to trust my gut...

   and also not to chase jobs around... guy gave me number of guy looking for someone to do a deck...called the guy several times, leaving messages..finally hooked up with him. he wanted to use precast blocks as opposed to footings....I noticed the fascia was shot on with gun nails.

    I gave him a price for footings included, I knew he wouldn't use me.

   now if people want to refer me I tell them to get them to call me.

7. 
   ccal | Oct 08, 2006 08:17pm | #16

   The quick answer is that nothing is really free if you want to stay in business.

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 08, 2006 08:38pm | #17

   what's your approach?

1. 
   ccal | Oct 09, 2006 02:04am | #20

   It is added in as part of my overhead. I know about how much time I spend in an average year on estimates and that is all added into my overhead expenses to come up with my hourly rate. I have gotten much better at prequalifying customers over the phone so I dont waste much time on jobs that I dont want or have no chance of getting. I can also ballpark a lot of costs based on square foot numbers to see if the potential customer is in the ballpark with what he expects it to cost. I dont want to waste time on a 50k estimate when they are looking to spend 10k.

1. 
   alrightythen | Oct 09, 2006 02:30am | #21

   Yeah..I actually got in the middle of something like that...I was going to be the sub on a deck job. contractor priced it for 40 k when they were looking to spend about 10k...

    The contarctor and the client got into a fight. I had to be very diplomatic ( it's a long story) which as it turns out, good thing I was, as I just so happened to be doing some work for some friends of the client, who in turn raved about me to them. they put 2 and 2 togther and figured out I was the same guy.