I always buy the white, dry 2x4s stamped “stud.” But I see the ones that labeled green douglas fir that look like they’d be more difficult to work with, and they cost more.
Why would they cost more? Are they a different grade of wood that is better suited to some applications?
…
Lighting up an exterior isn't just about ambiance— it's also about code compliance. Here is what the code says about safety and efficiency when it comes to outdoor lighting.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Lumber grading is actually pretty arcane:
http://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/forestry/g05053.htm
http://justwoodworking.com/charts/soft_lumber.php
Of course, treated lumber (which will generally have an odd color) is another category to itself.
And hardwood is graded entirely differently.
In general, Doug Fir has the highest allowable bending stress of the softwoods and is best for framing.
But I don't imagine green (i.e. undried) lumber would be good for framing. ;)
It's great for bending though.
Just leave some in the back of your truck for a week.
Joe H
But I don't imagine green (i.e. undried) lumber would be good for framing.
DFir doesn't split as easily, which is goodness. Recall I used all green DFir for own house, studs and joists, of course doing DIY they had 6 months to dry before the drywall.
Recall I used all green DFir for own house, studs and joists, of course
Well I stand corrected. I figured (wrongly, apparently) that the shrinkage would be a major issue.
Do you need to make sure you don't "mix" green and KD lumber if undertaking such a project?
Recall I used whatever was the less expensive at the time - do you beleive in 1973 I actuall got DF 18 ft 2x10 #1 for $64 a MBF!!! (price adjustement at the yard right after Nixon's price controls, I loved him!)
There was some shrinkage problems in places*, easy to deal with DIY, probably a disaster if you did the work for high priced hire to a picky customer!
*Cathedral ceiling 'wept' some drop of moisture for a year while drying out.
Dan's answer with the link is good.
But , yes there are different grades of lumber , from #3 (lowest ) up to "select structural graded for appearance, free of heart" and "Scaffold plank "
People have been building with green lumber for as long as people have been building with wood. No problem if the lumber has a chance to dry out before you put it into the plastic bag we call moisture protection these days.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Actually, the range for DF is wider than that. In the mills I worked in, there was "economy" which would be #4 and ( I mention this as factual; no insult intended) when economy grade was worth more than grinding it for hog fuel (for steam boilers in the power plants), it was unitized, strapped and shipped by rail to Texas where the building codes found it acceptable.
#3 is Utility which is OK for non structural application i.e., fire blocking and dog houses; there is the #2 and Btr suitable for most framing; #1 which is usually small tight knots with size limitations; Structural Select which is NOT an appearance grade, but is defined by closer rings per inch, very limited knots and shallow slope of grain; Clears, which may be flat sawn or VG....
"Free of heart" is usually a description applied to beams and not boards; Scaffold plank must be clear of defect with minimum (specified) slope of grain.
And then there is Cross-arm stock, Tank stock, wood gutter stock.....most of these are a thing of the past; with the demise of the majority of the Old Growth Doug Fir supply and the facilities to cut it, a lot of the special purpose wood has become engineered.
BTW, there is no problem framing with green DF: most of what is available in the yards in the PNW (where most of it is milled) is sold green and, unless it comes from a mill that is cutting really fast growing young timber, it works just fine in application.
The primary reason to dry it for distribution East of here is to reduce weight for shipping.
Tank stock
Hey Frank, it has been 20 years since I had any 'tank stock' (maybe should be called 'pipeline stock'?), and that was recycled stuff even then. Old Seattle pipeline, mine was 2nd time recycled, it had been already recycled when used for a barn near North Bend WA, and had probably been part of the barn for 80 years then!
For those unfamiliar, perfectly straight grain, not even a pin knot, 24 ft long or longer, maybe 20 growth rings or more per inch, etc. ........ Stuff I had was milled like 2x6 or 2x8 car decking, but with a radius and tight T&G.
Tank stock is beautiful stuff; alot of it was sawed in Springfield, Or, and I'd bet those big mills in Snoqualmie Falls and Everett cranked a lot of it out.
I recently tore out a rotten walkway someone had built along a steep hillside above a nearby lake; the only thing not rotten was the stringers which were recycled crossarm stock....5" X 7" and heavily creosoted....I actually thought of you when I brought them home!
notchman, You are correct. I didn't know about the special stock for tanks, cross arms etc. myself but was aware of the others. I was in a warehouse a few weeks back that must be 40 x 60 and 12" ceilings that is stacked to the maximum with old fir tank staves. All stickered and open to air circulation. As soon as I realized what the stuff was I thought to myself that it must be worth it's weight in gold . I didn't mean to make the "free of heart" sound as a grade although when I read what i posted I see that i did just that.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Tell me where that warehouse is...I'll hitch up my big trailer, swing by and pick you up and we'll do a midnight raid....I still have pretty good stealth skills....
If we get caught, we can just claim to be a couple of old duffers who aren't responsible for the misfiring synapses in our failing brains. :)
you guys need a helper?
We should probably have 3 loaders and a couple of lookouts....
Are you old enough for our little party? :-)
There used to be some big trees here.
Was able to go thru the 1900 then 'state of the art' Weyerhauser mill in Everett in the '70s before it was torn down, steam powered double sided band saw with 10 foot throat. Smaller version in pix.
One old-timer said they had to drill and dynamite-split some logs to fit.
Photos copied from arboristsite.com or Everett library.
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
View Image
Great photos!
Somewhere I've got a video copy of an old film of the Everett mill in operation....a convoy of logs riding the log chains and entering the mill was quite impressive.
We'd get som big logs like in your pics occasionally in Springfield....we'd save them aside and about every 6 mos. there was a guy who'd come around with a big hydraulic powered chainsaw with a 16' bar who'd rip and quarter them right in the pond. (That was as recent as 1985).
Most of the mills I worked in had 10' double-cut headrigs.
Edited 8/26/2007 9:35 am by Notchman
Nice pics!!"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
A Moffit truck would be perfect fo this job.
I'll throw in with you if I could get a few sticks of that stuff. Premium DF is some kind of beautiful.Call ourselves The New Over The Hill GangTime was when me hunting for 'midnight fir' meant quite a different thing.But time waits for no one.
Notchman,
I am actually trying to track down just who owns the stuff. I saw it when I went to look at a repair job on the side of a gas station/convenience store about 30 mi. from here. Place used to be a tire and farm repair shop. What was the service area is stacked with the old tank staves, I asked who owns it and was told that it belonged to the owner of the building and that as part of the now 15 yr. old lease agreement he was allowed to keep the stuff there. Haven't gotten high enough up the food chain at the operators company to track the owners name yet. I will keep after it though. Oh yea, we would need a quiet manner in which to remove metal siding , sits busy main street, but the place does have a back yard. ;-)"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
I was doing some work on an old building in the Aleutians, an old warehouse built in the '20s. It had beams that are 8x12 & larger, as long as 60', pretty much clear the whole way. Sigh.