Are these windows installed correctly? Stucco prep questions.
After doing tons of research on the internet on window and stucco installations over the past couple days, I decided to post here for input since I have concerns about this garage addition on my house and will be starting the 3-coat stucco this week. I’m a modern/contemporary architecture enthusiast and am really focused on the details here. The contractors I am working with are experienced with traditional jobs and are starting to get annoyed with how particular I am with the project. I am located in the southeastern PA region. All the pics are shown in the photobucket link at the bottom.
The windows are Andersen 400 Awnings and we used the leftover ice shield on the bottom of the rough openings as pictured before installing the windows. There is nothing else around the rough opening and research tells me otherwise. The pics show the steps.
As for the stucco, I have four concerns, starting with the drainage plane. The stucco guy plans on using a weather resistant barrier with two or three layers of either felt or grade d paper. In theory, the outer layer of felt paper is supposed to wrinkle after the scratch coat is applied, causing a “drainage plane” and I wanted to get thoughts on using this method versus an actual rainscreen system.
The rest of my concerns are purely aesthetic, starting with the window head flashing, which I takes away from the contemporary/minimalist look I am trying to accomplish. If head flashing is necessary, is there any way to blend it in with the windows? The stucco guy is using trim coil that matches the windows but told me he wants to install the flashing with a small overhang as seen in the pics of his work on another home, which I’m not a fan of.
Because the garage is 8′ block with wood framing above, stucco guy wants to use a weep screed where the wood meets the block. Makes sense since this would allow moisture to drain and would allow for an expansion gap between the wood and block. However, I don’t like how this would cause a line in the middle of the wall, once again, taking away from the clean look I am trying to achieve. Would it be possible to install a rainscreen product that would cushion the wood/block expansions such as Waterways or Delta-Dry and relocate the weep screed to near ground level while preventing cracks? Also, the weep screed he wants to use does not have an insect screen on it, which I think would pose problems.
Another product the stucco guy wants to use is EZ-Bead, which replaces the backing rod that goes around the window. While the EZ bead website claims to provide a cleaner solution (no visible signs of the EZ-Bead are visible in the website pics after the final stucco coat) you can see the ez bead in the last job the stucco guy did in the pics below. I’m not too crazy about how he did the windows.
Stucco would be a smooth coat to match the rest of the house, but the contractor and the stucco guy are afraid the smooth coat over the wood framing would show some imperfections. I feel that a good stucco guy sould be able to attain a smooth finish with very minimal noticeable imperfections. I wouldn’t blame you if you’ve had enough already, so I appreciate your inputs since that requires time and effort.
http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/KoreyConstable/library/Windows%20and%20Stucco
Replies
Couple of things right off the bat that seem questionable:
1. Window pan flashing seems incomplete
2. Bottom window wrap going over the window flange is incorrect. This directs any bulk water that may get to window pan flashing back toward wall sheathing.
3. WRB integrated with window flashings?
Also, the membrane that was used to wrap the window opening and flash over the flanges looks like granular roofing weather guard. I would question full adhesion to sheathing in general and to itself (at overlaps). You might want to check that this type of material qaulifies as acceptable by Anderson. IMO a peel and stick type flashing membrane like Grace's Vykor or Huber's zip tape is better.
I recommend you check with the manufacturer of the synthetic stucco (if that's what you'er using) to make sure that the drainage plane materials your contractor is using qualifies for warranty. I don't see any WRB in place in your photos. This definitley needs to be integrated into your window flashings.
We like HOme Slicker PLus for a quality drainage plane over Huber's zip wall sheathing system when doing synthetic stucco jobs (see attached photo).
It will be 3-coat stucco. We used leftover ice shield around the windows. Stucco guy is supposed to put up the WRB and 2 or 3 layers of felt paper/grade d paper before laying down the lath.
i would have an issue if this was the extent of the flashing. did you ask him what he was using? looks like ice/water shield but surely its not that cause he is stapling the piss out of it.
what part of the country are you in?
i can not imagine this being standard for stucco prep anywhere. not an effective way of waterproofing your new windows or framing.
Located in southeastern PA. It is ice shield we are using. Contractor's been in business for at leat 20 years so I'm surprised.
What's the difference between a rain screen and a drainage plane?
A rain screen is an actual system that allows for an air gap and drainage plane. This can be attained with furring strips over felt paper or several products such as Waterways or Delta-Dry which is more of an all-in-one product. A drainage plane can work without a rain screen system as in the case in the outside layer of felt paper that wrinkles after the scratch coat of stucco is applied and its effectiveness is questionable. If it were up to me, I would install a rain screen system.
My first reaction is to tell you to get another stucco guy. You obviously don't have faith in this one.
Second, if you want a rain screen then you should have one. Why isn't it up to you? It's your house, your money, so its your decision. Good grief.....
Third, that window shown in the photos is wrapped incorrectly. Don't use the leftover roofing material. You've one chance to keep water out of these openings. The proper peel and stick is cheap. Was that your decision or the contractor's?
The sill wrap should cover the wall wrap that lies below it. In the photos the exact opposite occured. Then it looks like they brought the next piece to a few inches shy of the sill. Why would they stop short like that? There is paper to the side of the window that doesn't extend over the lower piece. Why? Every upper layer must overlap every layer below it. And..... they didn't completely wrap the window sill bottom corners. Its best to either use premade corners or flexible wrap. Did they use sealant behind the window flange? Because it doesn't appear that they did. Whenever I've done it, some inevitably gets smeared out of bounds or is gooshed out when the flange seats. I see none in the photo. The manufacturer of my windows (Milgard) spec'd sealant, perhaps your's did not.
And last: I don't like the top of window flashing that he used either. I think something is necessary here, but there is probably a better aesthetic choice. But if you've entered into a contract with this guy already and that decision wasn't spelled out, you are probably screwed or will have to pay extra. And I gotta feeling this guy will really make you pay.
In Calif....
standard practice is that paper flashings the bottom and side go under the nailing flange and over the nailing flange at the top. That's the window installer's job. Two layers of stucco paper go on tucked under the bottom flashing and over the other flashings.
Now I think I understand why I was confused with some of the replies regarding the ice shield in the pictures- the large piece on under the windows is actually a single large piece that goes all the way up to the windows (the top part of that piece looks like a separate piece but it is not). The side ones overlap this large piece, followed by the top. Isn't this considered shingle style? The WRB is supposed to lay on top of these followed by two layers of felt or grade D paper. Does this clarify things?
Clarify what? That's it's wrong. I understood it to be one sheet from the photo...and its going over the bottom window flange. That's incorrect installation for reasons I already pointed out (also see Martin Holladay's mantra in quote #2). Not to metion (again) that the material used is not a P&S membrane...plus the window pan is done incorrectly. As far as rain screen vs. drainage plan, see referenced article. If you wanted a rainscreen (and they are always beneficial, then IMO you're not getting one and this is something that you should have researched BEFORE you started your project, not during.
Anyhow, below is an article by Martin Holladay that you should really read.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/all-about-rainscreens
I have pulled out s few pertinent excerpts from that article for the purposes of this thread discussion (note: the italized and underlined titles of each section are my own words added in repsponse to O.P. issues brought up).
All About Rainscreens
To lower the risk of wall rot, it often makes sense to provide a ventilated air gap between your siding and your sheathing
Posted on Mar 1 2013 by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor
Creating an air space with vertical furring strips. One of the most common ways to establish a gap between siding and sheathing is with vertical furring strips.
UPDATED June 17, 2013 with new product information
Definition cont’d…
[Some purists insist that you can’t call it a rainscreen gap unless you have ventilation gaps at the top of the wall as well as the bottom of the wall. If it only has drainage gaps at the bottom, but no openings at the top, the purists insist that the system is more accurately called a “cavity wall.”] M.H.
Your builder missed this one….
[If you ever find yourself scratching your head, looking for a solution to a window flashing problem, remember this mantra: “Flash the rough opening, not the window.” If the rough opening is watertight and able to direct leaks to the exterior, you’re good.] M.H.
2-3 layers of building paper ain’t gonna cut it for a R.S...
[I remain somewhat skeptical of the value of wrinkled housewraps. My advice: if you want a rainscreen gap, choose a method that gives you a gap of at least 1/4 inch.] M.H.
Can’t go wrong… if it’s done right:
[Rainscreen gaps are always beneficial. Rainscreen walls are more robust than ordinary walls — because a few minor leaks in a rainscreen wall are less likely to lead to a major rot than the same leaks in a wall without a rainscreen. The only drawbacks to rainscreen walls are the hassle of installing the extra details and the added cost associated with these details.] M.H.
Overlap shown in your pictures is not correct.
Tyvek, Typar or similar housewarp WRB should go on the wall before the windows go in, and gets wrapped around the framing at the bottom and sides.
If you are using felt paper as the WRB, then a starter strip goes on the wall below the window, tacked in place only at the window opening.
Window opening should have sloped bottom sill, or a back dam installed. The sill pan then goes over this and laps over the housewrap or felt starter strip. Sill pans have corners completly covered, either with peel and stick, or maunfuactured corners. Ice shield is not the proper stuff to make a sill pan.
If using felt paper, side and top then get wrapped with a starter strips.
Window goes in with sealant on sides and top. Bottom is not sealed to allow any water to drain.
Housewarp gets sealing tape on side and top flanges. Felt paper get layered on with proper overlaps. Felt paper gets tucked up under the starter strip at the sill, and overlaps the side starters and flanges. Seal the felt paper to the flanges.
Top gets metal flashing, and then housewrap or felt paper overlaps that.
In all cases, the bottom window flange is on the outside. I will be visible up until the final siding is installed.
Your pictures show it behind the bottom layer of ice shield. Water will work its way down the sides, and soak in behind the ice shield, and into the house. The adhesive on the ice shield is designed to adhere to a horizontal/sloped application on a roof deck. It will do not stop water on a wall.
I suggest you pull the windows, and get layering correct, and put a proper sill flashing in place.
I see what you mean now, but it was too late to start over- the stucco guys came the other day and finished the stucco prep, They put stick on flasing around the windows and two laters of WRB over top. Thanks everybody for your advice.
can't make 'em drink
K C wrote:
I decided to post here for input since I have concerns about this garage addition on my house...
Awesome! Now you can own those concerns outright...and in perpetuity.