Here’s an example of how not to do business.
Nearing the last 25% of building my first house. It’s been interesting.
Just came back from meeting the owner of the drywall company. Somewhere during hanging and taping, his crew damaged the brand new tub. Looks like abrasion marks (about the size of a dime) on the front corner on both sides of the tub (tub and install—about $400).
He insists that it couldn’t be his crew because they look like chips and it couldn’t possibly have happened from the tapers. He feels that I need to share responsibility for the damage.
Are you f)*$)(*$W! kidding me? I know for a fact (unfortunately I don’t have pictures) that the tub was perfectly fine last week. The only people on the job site in the last week have been his crew.
I had (stress that…HAD) two more jobs lined up in the next 6 months worth about $40-50K . And residential business is slowing way down in Seattle. I know for sure this guy won’t be getting the jobs.
Replies
Brutag ,
That's the pits.
Some years ago I was doing the cabinets in a new house and in the upstairs bathroom the big Jacuzzi type tub had not been installed yet when the dry wall finishers were there doing their thing . You could see the floor joists under where the tub would sit and a few pieces of scrap plywood created a a few ares to stand or support a ladder while the drywall lid was hung .
A few days later I came back to finish my job and the builder said in a kidding way you did it right ? I said sure what did I do , he showed me a hole in the ceiling in the bedroom below the bathroom and a hole the size of a few legs was busted into the ceiling .
They would not cop to it so the home owner also a builder (commercial tilt up carpenter) checked the ankles of the crew as they came to work until he found one guy with some redness around his ankles .
The contractor said he was done with the drywall folks for good after that. Heck the fix was probably 3 or 4 hundred dollars only .
dusty
Come on man! You too. A GC needs to make sure that those floor joists are covered over safely with full ply tacked down so nobody gets hurt. Not just a couple scraps of ply laying around. You are lucky not to get sued for negligence on your part for leaving an open hole. Why should a drywall sub want to work for a GC that leaves unsafe jobsites like that?!
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Easy lad ,,, cool your jets
I'm just a box builder / wood butcher sub , it was on a job I did the case work , but I had nothing to do with that part .
dusty
Sorry, missed that part about you trim guy and not the GC
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I did a roof one time and the HO called me one month later. She showed me a hole in the sheetrock where someones foot came through.. It was by the front door, she had lived there one month and nobody ever looked up to see it. I think the helper did it was scared swept up the sheetrock and mum wuz the word.. I started to be a good little SR repair man with that crew.
no worry
So who's kidding who? What did you do to protect the tub? Sounds like a couple of layers of blue tape in the vulnerable areas would have done a lot to save you this trouble. Were you there when they were working? Did you talk to his guys about working carefully around the tub?
I have a job going right now... almost done... and the risks are huge. A $20,000 glue-together bamboo floor. $30,000+ in maple and VG fir cabinetry. $20,000+ in tile and stone. $25,000 in wood/clad windows and doors. Scratch or chip any of this stuff and I am either fixing it, throwing it out and replacing it, or begging the owner for mercy.... not. I am watching everyone who is working, talking to them constantly about how to protect surfaces, sweeping constantly, covering things with masonite, door skins, dropcloths, and blankets. It is a major job at this point to prevent damage from occurring. Don't think that you can just open the door and let guys in to work.
So from this lesson, I've learned that next time I'll go thru and take pictures of everything before they start.
The tub, in fact, was protected. We had tub liners in both tubs. Both of which the drywallguys crumpled up out of the way. And that's supposed to be my fault why?
Look, I understand that things happen and I'd be happy to work out some thing with someone who's being reasonable. But someone that is immediately defensive and trys to blame me for something that happened on their watch is not acting reasonable.
My point isn't about the tub being damaged, it's more about the extremely poor way in which the owner of the drywall company is handling it.
"The tub, in fact, was protected. We had tub liners in both tubs. Both of which the drywallguys crumpled up out of the way"
You really think paper tub liners are protection? When ever I'm having anything done around the tub, a full piece of 3/4" ply goes over it.
I think the offer to split the cost was fair.
Fair is firing a$$wholes and never using them ever. I would also offer unsolisited references to anyone I happened to think might care. times are tight and people who should have been taught manners and ethics as children will now have to learn the hard way.
"My point isn't about the tub being damaged, it's more about the extremely poor way in which the owner of the drywall company is handling it."I feel the same way about the people I contract with. I want perfection, but I don't really expect it. When a problem occurs, the spirit in which it's dealt with is just as important as what's done. I don't even try to reform guys like you are dealing with. I just cut my losses and I'm glad that there weren't a couple zeros on the end of that damage. I'm no heartless scrooge but I also want to be dealing with men who step up to the plate when they find out their guys are crunching up tub covers... Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"the spirit in which its dealt with is just as important"
its amazing what happens when you raise your hand and say "i did it, its my fault. it was an accident and what can i do to make it right ?"
that actually happened to me once when as a young man i put a dent in the company truck door. when the boss saw it he came out yelling and fired the whole crew. i raised my hand...
he fired us all anyway, but the guys i worked with were so impressed i had another job the next day!
Fired the whole crew over a dent? Fired everyone anyway after you fessed up? Man, what a jerk! :D That guy doesn't deserve a crew.--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
yeah he was a real case that guy, takes all kinds.
worst boss i ever worked for by far.
All you need to do is walk the job with each trade before they start, verify that everything is in good condition (you gotta look too, not just a cursory inspection) and then when they are complete, inspect everything to verify that it is still in good condition.
If not, call them and tell them to inspect as you found damage and it is on them.
I WILL NOT stand over my contractor trade partners and watch them. They are big boys and girls and just need to understand that they are accountable.
I still protect tubs and counters, etc but they all understand that they own their own damage.
I also dont allow any smoking in house, will write peoples names on the cups sometimes just to remind them to make sure I dont see their cups with their names on them again (forces them to throw stuff out)
I then still budget $500-$750 per home for misc repairs, tub polishing, etc. as I know something will get past me.
thats my 2 C worth.
I WILL NOT stand over my contractor trade partners and watch them. They are big boys and girls and just need to understand that they are accountable.
I still protect tubs and counters, etc but they all understand that they own their own damage.
Exactly. Expect the best and prepare for the worst. Accidents happen to the best of us. And sometimes we don't know we've messed something up.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
And sometimes we don't know we've messed something up.(quote)Oh, is that where the "who me?" comes into play. "not me man, no way (insert every trade you are NOT apart of) probably did it."Also seldom do the owners of these sub groups do any wrong.....it's their helpers......seems to me no matter how you play the game you the GC end up buying the ticket.
And sometimes we don't know we've messed something up.(quote)
I broke a storm window when an extension cord slipped off the roof. It whipped ( I guess) and hit the glass on the way down. I didn't hear it and didn't notice the cracked glass.
HO thought I was trying to dodge the responsibility when he asked me about it, but I really didn't know damage had been done. In fact, I just had to go on his word that I broke the window. The extension cord theory was the only thing I could come up with as to how it happened. If the incident ever crosses his mind, I'm sure he still thinks I was trying to BS my way out of replacing the glass. http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
"The tub, in fact, was protected. We had tub liners in both tubs. Both of which the drywallguys crumpled up out of the way"Would have been good to mention this important fact from the beginning.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This is your first house? Then you can be excused, but after this YOU MUST protect tubs, sinks, etc. (vinyl floor also) cause the end guys drywall/electrician/plumber etc. will break and run every time.
Never once (and I had a lot of stuff through the years messed up) can I remember anyone fessing up........it all becomes a finger pointing circle jerk as soon as it's found out ...and a lot of time they'll hide it under sheetrock or pieces of plywood.......
best thing to do in the long run is to use the same subs every time....but even then problems like this are gonna happen. I completely encased my tubs in plywood cause the drywallers love to fill them up with junk and then walk on it.......scratch.....scratch....gouge.....
I was installing bath hardware, and dropped a piece in the americast tub. That cheap #### chips if you think bad thoughts in the same room... I've got a sink, but that's another story.Anyway, I saw a chip in the tub,ratted myself out to the super. He started laughing, and told me the cleaning crew noticed the chip before I even got there... and, my guys are under orders to tell me about anything goes or seems wrong... then I decide what story to make up <G>As for the OP, you didn't cover the tub properly if it got damaged. The rockers are trying to get a job done, and if you didn't stress watching out for the tub, they're gonna roll... and, with out those pics, the sheetrock guy doesn't know if you're just trying to pass off some previous faux pas on him. Can you really blame him for not volunteering to pay for it? Oh yeah, I forgot the dangling carrot...if I took all them to the bank, I'd hardly be hanging around with these BT derelicts<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I think it's up to the drywallers to protect the things they may damage. If they are not capable of that, they should foreward the superintendent and demand that adequate protection be installed. These are men we are talking about..not kids. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim, I've learned assume nothing... if I want something protected, I'm the one to protect it. We have a lot of Latino workers in our area, most sheetrock, paint and framing crews. Very hard working, fast, efficent... but I think protective sensibilities are a bit different where they come from... I get a grin and a si no matter what I ask if the head honcho's not on site... and then the stain grade fiberglass gets painted... I learned<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I agree, the drywallers should be more careful. So should the plumber, the electrician, the cleaning crew, the painters... the whole lot of 'em. But then there's reality. If you hold out for the perfect subs the whole project will be at a standstill. And if you nickle-dime the pretty good subs, they'll start charging more or stop working for you. That's why it's up to the builder to fool proof the working area.
"These are men we are talking about..not kids."
mmm... I don't know about that. Maybe somewhere in between. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
We always protect tubs with a frame and osb before the drywallers come in.... because we don't use drywall around tubs.
Good point. :)--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
No drywall in the tub...that would be bad idea, would it not? ;-)
It's another issue all together. and the tapers floated drywall compound a good 18" over onto the tile backer (Custom Easyboard) and sanded away...hence the abraded areas on the tub.
"But then there's reality."Exactly!anywhere from 80 to 100 guys will work through a house as it is going up on all the different crews. Expecting that every single one of them will perform perfectly up to snuff with never a mistake is unreasonable.Rather than cry over spilled milk, I pour it into a tippy-cup so it won't spill. Murphy's Law prevails
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There might be some folks in your area that can do repairs on minor blems.
Back in the day, it was almost "normal" for some sort of damage to fiberglass and acrylic units to occur.
Called in the repair guy, he matched up the gel color, filled and buffed out the repair to everyones satisfaction.
Most of the time it was the plumber who damaged the tub ........ I think he kept the repair guy on retainer :)
I agree a new tub is over the top, a repair first then see how that looks. then decide where to go.You buy a new car drive off the lot stop at the market and get a grapefruit size dent from an errand cart. You don't get a new car you get it repaired. same here.Sorry it happened but that is what he should of offered to pay for a repair. A good repair mechanic can get it right on what happened occurs all the time.Wallyo
Your analogy strikes me as completely wrong. Maybe you buy a new car and the factory assembly line worker had dropped the radiator and smashed it but installs it anyway.
Do you get a new radiator or does the dealer charge you for the repairs? Or how about you take your car through a car wash and it comes out with a dent and scratch on the drivers door. Are you responsible to pay for the damage or is the car wash? Either way it is not the purchasers responsibility to pay for the repairs or replacement for damage done by others.
The owner hadn't taken possession of the final product yet. I had one where the plumbers dropped a sawsall box into the bottom a brand new special order tub, damaged the bottom . Plumber asked for the right to repair instead of replace, I Ok'd that, but only on the condition the owners be completely satisfied and the original warranty was adhered to. Weeks later, with the tub still unrepaired, the customer of mine decides the tub is just wrong for the house and is willing to pay a restock charge to change it out.
Plumber refused to consider it at even a 50% restock charge.
I told him take the damaged tub out, I would only accept a brand new tub, not a repair if he was going to play that way. Owners got the tub they wanted .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I never said it was up to the home owner to pay the repair I think the dry waller should pay.As to the shopping cart I should of go to more detail that the cart was pushed by another shopper or the lot attendant let go of it. My point is more so that you do not get a new car.The OP should of been a bit more diplomatic as well as the drywall owner. Instead of walking in saying you did it and need to buy a new tub.It should of been more like I have a concern. Well what is that. In X bath there is a chip in the tub can you check with your guys to see what happened? Yeah I will do that and get back to you.Yeah I check Jim dropped his rocking hammer, how about I arrange a repair for you.Chips happen all the time, I have a friend that does marketing for a tub Manufacturer they are always arranging for repairs and sending bills out to subs and contractors for on site damage. They are dam good at it, they repaired my own tub could not notice it.Wallyo
Edited 6/2/2008 9:38 am ET by wallyo
I recommend using the tub protector from Protective Products. Watch the dry wallers like a hawk next time, they all need it.View Image
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Yup, I specify that tub liner and it works well, so long as you don't 'skimp' on the coating (thinner is harder to remove). Still it should not be considered 'primary' protection but rather secondary.
Jeff
That's why in bigger jobs like yours, we do the bathrooms ourselves.
DW guys are NOT allowed to even step foot in the baths.
[email protected]
See, now that's what I'm talking about. Ya want the job done right, ya gotta step up to the plate. Now here's someone who's in charge of the situation!--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
We've hurt a few all by ourself's, don't need any help![email protected]
I hear ya!
I scraped a rather expensive tub installing durock around it. Careful as I tried to be, I slipped. Home owner wasn't too torn up about it. Called the manufacturer and they recommended someone to repair it. Cost me about $200, iirc. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
Now that I could have tolerated.
BTW...I AM the homeowner....not a G/C.
I approached this with a manner of " hey, this is something that happened when your crew was here and what can we do"
I wasn't angry about it....at least not untill he basically implied that i was lying
You cant just get other rockers, they all do the same thing.
look close at there hammers and you will see notches.
The notches are destroyed tubs.
I have heard them say there not really rockers till they become an ace.
the only way you can stop there evil powers is to be there when they do the bathrooms.
you must talk to them as little children or as if they are mentally disabled.
This does not work with plumbers as they get offended easy.
Best to just be there and ask if they want a coaster for there pipe wrenches they drop in the tub.
By the sound of it, I've been unnaturally lucky. I've never had a sub damage anything, so this issue has never come up for me. But reading this thread has been an education. And I don't much like what I'm reading, either. Sounds like the world's gone goofy, and nobody's noticed.
Part one of the problem is that the concept of personal responsibility has gone missing if a sub can do damage through carelessness, and then turn around and lay the blame off on the GC for not having physically prevented him from doing it.
Part two of the problem is that an awful lot of people seem to think this is perfectly normal and acceptable. It's become the 'standard trade practise'. When someone like the OP questions it, he now gets blasted by GC's who don't see anything wrong with this completely bassackwards illogic?
Yah. I don't think so, Gertrude....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I agree Dino. In most cases, when the drywallers are in the house, there is no other work going on. So, if the tub is not damaged before they start, then it's damaged after they are done, it's perfectly logical to assume they did the damage. Does the drywaller really think the HVAC guy made a special trip over to a jobsite that he's not working on to give a tub a whack?!!!!!The drywallers simply get their training when they get their check docked. Personally, I refuse to be held hostage by subs with low standards. If they think they can crumple up a protective covering, scratch away at delicate surfaces and think I'm going to eat the expense because drywallers are hard to find...they've got another lesson coming. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You gotta be kidding me!
As a GC, you don't protect the tub before letting a drywall crew work around it?
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I won't go back, but I think he did say there was tub liners in the tub. But...they aren't worth a shid.I plywood over everything, including prefinished flooring. You can reuse the ply. Now I use the new rolls of protective contact plastics they have for wood floors and carpets. On top of the plastic I duct tape sheets of luan in the areas that are going to have any kind of traffic.Counter tops, same thing.Sinks & tubs, always.It's extra time I know, but I really don't care about that, because I know the subs will do their jobs and I don't have to worry.More than once I've seen a schwoogie carpenter or drywaller wreck a tub finish.
I have been lucky enough with most sub crews to have decent guys. But I also cover and protect stuff. tub gets that protective film over, then a carboard cushion, then a plywood that they can stand on.
I don't know that kind of product the OP mentions.Still, halfway thru the thread, I notice more info - that he is the HO also.Most subs who are used to dealing with HOs directly charge them more because they don't know how to prep a job and get more picky about stuff.The drywall subs should not have damaged the tub sanding, but stuff happens and the GC is the one who absorbs it when he fails to control his subs or to protect his jobsite. This HO is the GC so he gets his turn learning what we all know.The worst one I remember like this was a plumber's helper. I had done a custom bathroom - really high end. custom mahogany vanity with barrel vaulted over and marble sink/top. The wood floor was already finished when the plumber sent his helper to hook up the sink trims. I had placed a furniture pad on the floor in front of the sink and rolled out a runner from the door to the bathroom.The idiot walked in and kicked the pad out of his way.I caught him there and asked WTF did he think it was there for.So he squattted down on it after oving it in front of the vanity again and DROPPED HIS TOOL BOX ON THE FLOOR NEXT TO HIM, THEN SHOVED IT ACROSS THE FLOOR TO MAKE ROOM for his feet, scratching the floor. I took his tool box out and told him he could walk in and out to get what tools he needed and that the repair would be coming out of the bill.Then I called the plumber and told him not to send his help alone ever again - and why.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You just described and intentional act to cause damage. You were much too nice. I would have sent the guy packing immediately and billed the plumber for the floor repair. Control over the subs is accomplished with the checkbook. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Plumber did pay for the floor repair, but I was on a deadline schedule or the tool box would have been chucked out the window and him after it. I used wax to fill the floor scratch, showed the HO, and refinished the next winter.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
BTW, I don't think it was intentional. He was just dumb as an ox. Should have stuck to cutting off floor joists with the sawzal instead of doing finish work.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was ready to agree with Jim about the intentional damage thing, but then I got to thinking about some of the helpers of subs I have known and I believe that you are probably right.
Some of those guys I have seen are about as dumb as fence posts...actually I give the fence posts better scores since they're doing something useful. I have no idea why or how they ever get hired.
Had an old timer around here label someone as " Dumber than a Hemlock stump" Image has always stuck with me and made me laugh.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
But I also cover and protect stuff. tub gets that protective film over, then a carboard cushion, then a plywood that they can stand on.
That plywood cover also keeps 'em from pooping in the tub.
I'd rather cut a piece of plywood than scoop poop.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
That plywood cover also keeps 'em from pooping in the tub. (quote)Yeah then they get really classy and use a empty drywall bucket .....seal it real tight and hide it ........the perfect booby trap for someone looking for an empty bucket.....pull off lid and die in toxic fumes.
Yeah then they get really classy and use a empty drywall bucket .....seal it real tight and hide it ........
Yeah, I've opened a couple of buckets of fudge swirl.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
I'm so glad you are back in full force. BT ain't the same without you
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"a schwoogie carpenter"What is the definition of that term?
It's a very local term that a mason friend of mine uses, he may have even made it up. It caught on with a lot of the guys around here. It means jerk, clown, schmuck, dumbkoff, goink, sh!t-fer-brains, stupid numbskull etc.I love the term because of the somewhat onomatopoetic sound it lends to being clownish.We often give it an extra syllable and say 'she-woo--gie'. I use it whenever I can.Be a she-woo-gie for a day, or maybe just an hour.
'onomatopoetic' ?
onomatopoeticYeah. It sounds like something a clown would say."She-woo-gie!!"Maybe ya just gotta be me.Don't lose any sleep over it.
You've got to cover tubs after installation. Fully protected. Not doing so is a huge mistake. No question about it.
I FEEL YOUR PAIN YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR CREW OR AT LEAST YOURSELF PROTECT THE CRITICAL FINISHES OF THE HOUSE. I'LL BET THE CREW OF DRYWALLERS WERE SPANISH DECENT. I AM NOT BEING RACIAL, BUT THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT MAKING AND SENDING THE MONEY BACK TO WHERE THEY COME FROM.
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT WE ARE ALL IMIGRANTS, AND WE SHOULD NOT RAPE THIS GREAT COUNTRY FOR WITH SHE HAS TO OFFER..
IF I,M MISINTERPENTING I APPOLIGIZE, BUT THINK ABOUT IT
hey Mack.....
yur caps lock button is stuck....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
so what, do you have any advise
Advice? Sure, turn off your caps lock button.
Edited 6/2/2008 8:39 pm ET by HammerHarry
so what ya say.....
well so much for nicely telling you you were shouting...
have a nice day Mack....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
do you have any advise (quote)Of course....everybody in here is full of it....advice I mean.You see how all us important (in our own minds ) people address one another?Well, if you use a bunch of caps/bold print it makes us think that you think your words are more important than ours...and of course we know that ain't true. So nobody is gonna take you seriously enough to even read what you say.......cause right now you sound to me like a really angry right wing nut. :-)
.......cause right now you sound to me like a really angry right wing nut. :-)
But he's not a racist. He said so.http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
and I think he said Spanish are decent... but with my command of that lingo, I could be mis-interpreting? If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I think that he is an angry left wing nut trying to shift blame..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I don't know if you are mis-representing or not, but you are damn sure loud in here. Quit shouting and you are more likely to be heard.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Man, it looks like the first time I'm gonna have to put someone in my "ignore" list. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
hey.. mack....... spanish decent ???????
yur speeling sucks and so do your assumptionsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey Mack - I'll hold your coat.http://grantlogan.net
Who got Bo Diddley's money?
and i'll hold bings......
i got my money on bing !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
i got my money on bing !
He's gonna have to get in line behind Buck. There's a pretty long line of fellers that have said they're gonna whip my asss, that for one reason or another have never gotten around to it. Probably 'cause I don't need my asss whipped. A good talking to will probably be suffcient.http://grantlogan.net
Who got Bo Diddley's money?
i thought we could do it with surrogates ...... just as much fun , less pain Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Should we introduce Bing and Mack?
Actually, Bing's all right. I bet he's out shopping for a siding nailer. Whaddya think?http://grantlogan.net
Who got Bo Diddley's money?
if he's as smart as i think he is.... you're right
now.... would that be Hitachi , Bostich ..... 'er what ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
would that be Hitachi , Bostich ..... 'er what ?
I think yer a hack if you don't hand nail. http://grantlogan.net
Who got Bo Diddley's money?
hack........ ? hack ? who u callin a hack ?what this hand nail technique your talking about ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
what this hand nail technique your talking about ?
Haven't you read the Gospels?http://grantlogan.net
Who got Bo Diddley's money?