I did a commercial plan review today or part of one. It was a review to be sure a new bank was to be built to code . He has missed four items so far . Two of which were big ones ;
No attic venting and no soffit venting shown on plans any where with a steep pitch roof.
Supposed to be a boys and girls bathroom and he has two unisex . Wont work for 38 people figgured .
No drinking fountain
No handicap access shown for employee entry. mmmmm.
He charged some big bucks for that plan too.
Tim Mooney
Replies
does the fire marshall do a seperate review for commercial buildings in your town ?
they do here in RI....
go get 'em tiger
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The fire marshal does do a fire review of the parking area and entrance - exit.
I do the fire review on the building from a text in check point style.
Tim Mooney
While Im at it :
Nearly my whole set of code books are from the national fire code which excerts the international building code , but is more stringent than , plus includes fire, electrical , and a bunch of sublines such as insulation , glazing , etc. I was told the whole purposr behind building codes are fire . I never knew that till now.
Ive got a master book that lists it all and then gives book number and page in a 15 volume set. In the master is a commercial building review guidelines and check list to copy off and use in the performance of said review. The full set is quite expensive but very easy to answer a question with how well its indexed.
Maybe archies dont have such a tool or use it . The full set is close to two thousand dollars . For an inspector its worth it because its used daily in reference . Its an easy , quick method to solve questions. You dont have to be up on the codes of all the trades to inspect with these books.
Im not beating my chest as the books make it simple.
Tim Mooney
my IBC is a 3" ring binder.. with the RI amendments and is just the One & Two Family Code..
some cities have a very formal review process.. and you have to march the prints around .. others you have to give them 3 sets... one original we get back , one for the BI, and one for the Fire Marshall
lately.. more and more applications are falling under Planning Board review... another power grab...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I just got off planning and zonning when I took this job. Its a power grab as you say.
Tim Mooney
I'm always suprised at the content of plans received from the architect.
There almost always seems to be a code issue uncovered in the plans review, and there always seems to be a "uh...how is this supposed to be built" question, in that what's drawn literally can not be built. Lines don't match up in plan or elevation, etc.
The good architects are good. The bad ones? They're expensive.
A city council member contacted me last night after this post was made . He questioned whether the city should pay me to do the building review . He thought our own civil engineer should give his stamp of approval instead of me .
I called the city engineer at 8 am this morning and asked him this question. He told me code enforcement was to be my specicalty and it was definately my job . Thanks but , no thanks . He told me if he was in error over some code violations it would be his gonads in trouble and he doesnt specialize in that direct area of all the codes of building. Even if he assisted me , or I assisted him , my review would be needed to pass the project final with out a fire ball happening over having a bathroom that wasnt there . So , Ive learned that a plat review is quite necesary and after further checking , it happens all the time . I have to keep sending them back until its in compliance with the codes I have to enforce. So, I cover the fire marshal and the archies butt , while trying to find the drain plug in the swamp. Or that is one of my attemps at least if Im to be successful. Of course city goverment wants a good job but doesnt expect any waves. Somebody mention election year and Im an appointed official?
Tim Mooney
Since you mention the mistake prone plans , Ill try to mention my feelings about it when I posted the thread .
When some one has asked me to do a job that is very important , Im a little caucious to say the least . I installed an inlayed glass shower door once and it probably took twice the time. As I reflect back I think of many such types of jobs that one try was it such as a sheet of expensive inlaid floor covering that had a seam or a muriel on a doctors waiting room wall.
I thought this should be one as such that it has to be right or else . I guess Ive learned that it isnt and I had the knowledge that it wasnt but Im in awe . Im also aware that things get on plans that cant be built , so I guess it shouldnt blow my mind that a whole design of a building will have to be changed to accomadate codes.
Tim Mooney
while trying to find the drain plug in the swamp
Tim, if you find that plug, leave it alone. Thousands of EPAs and tree hugger lawyers are waiting.
Joe H
"The good architects are good. The bad ones? They're expensive."
Yeah, kind of like contractors! <G>!
---""The good architects are good. The bad ones? They're expensive."
Yeah, kind of like contractors! <G>!"---
Someone told me that they read in the Sunday paper that the GC on our house was named "Builder of the Year".
Guess that we are not the only ones that think he is good.<G>
I did a little more checking this morning . It is my job to assist a part time fire marshal to enforce the fire codes. If the fire marshal was full time and paid as such it would be his responsebility. So theres the ruling on that . You probably have a full time fire marshal to do those inspections.
Tim Mooney
Fellers , what Im really thinking in this post is that I was shocked to uncover it as a new inspector . I felt" under them" really and I guess I got shocked . Im still in awe that these mistakes were left to build. If I would have let these plans go through , it would have cost the bank several thousand dollars later to fix. I should not have caught anything on a plan of that cost. JMO
Tim Mooney
Tim
I watched some of that Hilton/Arkansas show and all that code stuff only applies to the other 49 states! :)
Oh and congradulations on the job thing.
Doug
BTW, I was in a new HD and they have a His, Her's, and family restrooms.
It all depends on the size and use of the facility . The city had a new gymasium built for the general public. Really its a sport complex for the girls and boys clubs in actuality. They have the same as you mention which makes good sense from two spects .
1. A handicapped person may need family help.
2. Since its a family affair to watch little John or Jane play ball the little brothers and sisters are there in numbers.
Walmart, Home Depot and Lowes are good examples of the same .
This however is a branch bank with a total of 38 people as expected load in 1800 sg ft of quiet commercial use.
Tim Mooney
I don't disagree, but this was the first time that I have ever seen one and I had not heard of one.
Now I assume that the unisex restrooms where one at a time usage unlike the muliple stalls in a "sexed" restrooms.
So if there where enough toliets in enough separate unisex restrooms to meet the "load" for that size of building would it have met code?
"So if there where enough toliets in enough separate unisex restrooms to meet the "load" for that size of building would it have met code?"
Ill explain the process as an answer .
I pick the type building it is and its use . I put the sq footage to the chart . Like A, then B, then C and I arrive at the requirement for bathrooms for that building . The code sometimes gives exceptions , but in this case it didnt offer any. I thought the plan was pretty good though. Restroom unisex in the back for employess hanicapped with a mop sink included . The restroom in front was public off the lobby for unisex. I even commented on the back restroom being unisex to serve either sex as a janitor using the mop sink. This boy - girl thing means that the mop sink have a separte closet also taking up more space. I really dont know how it will be planned as the restrooms were stacked front to back taking advantage of the width for passage and offices . Looks to be a pretty big change in the current plan because it throws everything else off in the center of the building.
Tim Mooney
Tim, If I read you right, your main concern in posting this is that it seems to you that when archies are hired to produce a plan, they should have everything right the first time out.
In an ideal world...
But we are all human and nobody knows everything and we all make mistakes. If it is costing the customer more to have the archies redraw the plans, that is between them.
A good archy will try for a developement conference to determine what special items must I be paying attention to here. I have nbeen hired here locally to act as a consultant to archies from away to negotiate the sometiomes confusing shorelands requirements and to develope a strategy that helps owners make maximum use of their land, within the confines of the legalities. it can be a very efficient process.
I have had other archies be told exactly what the restrictions are and they totally ignore them, designing something that cannot possibly be permitted for that particular lot, even if it is otherwise a nice piece of architecture. They have the attitude that "I don't see why they can't permit it. It is a nice design" They don't live in the reality the rest of the world does and they expect everyone to revolve around their sun.
Most are somewhere between these two and they try but make a couple errors along the way. I am working with a team now for this eldercare home and they are doing well, listenning to us, the local ordinances and they are familiar with the state licensing and fire marshalls rules for such a facility. But it is a process of cross checking between various people.
You are in the position of one of those people.
maybe they tried to make contact with your predicessor and found the office vacant.
Or
Maybe they are lackadasial about the rul;es and you did their work for them
Anyway, that's why you are there. It's good to find fulfillment in the job already isn't it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thats some mighty good writing you did there , and yes , the real world I suppose.
Let me shine this light on it . I would not expect that kind of job from you and as a friend , I wouldnt accept it as your best effort . Maybe because I know you better than that .
Yes , its between them thats very true and it didnt get by me . Its probably because Im old and slow and cant afford the mistakes. I worked under an old plumber when I was young . He told me he was old and crippled and for that reason he had to do it right the first time . That could have been for my benifit, trying to have blazing speed back then and making many mistakes. Still the same , I never forgot it and here lately I think about him alot. I also worked with an old carpenter as did my brothers . They couldnt stand him because he was slow. We were always told to hurry up. Anyway I helped him frame a cut up house from start to finish with a really cut up roof with dormers . He used three hankies in 100 degree heat continually wipeing his eyes as he stood hour after hour at those saw horses and never produced a wrong cut . I waited on the mistake , but it never came . In the end , it wasnt a bad speed considering there was nothing to fix . That wasnt the brothers fortay or mine admittedly. We tried for speed to make money. The old man and I [ a young guy] came in , in the money for a profit after all. He and I didnt make as much as brothers either , so that helped the profit. I remember both those old tradesmen were easy to get along with too which made the process enjoyable.
As for the job , seems like Im getting "my" monies worth getting this oportunity for an experience normally I would not have gotten. So no, Im not griping , but in awe.
Tim Mooney
Didn't think you were griping. Just gertting settled in.
But if you want to gripe, this is a fine place for it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think the "family restrooms" are a good idea. When our kids were small, it was sometimes hard to corral one while dealing with another one in the bathroom.
We used one of the "family restrooms" once in an airport and it was real handy. DW and I both went in and dealt with the kids, rather than splitting them up in the gender-based restrooms.Q: What's the greatest thing about having a woman for President?A: We wouldn't have to pay her as much.
Your new. Everybody is going to dump their mess/work on your lap until you figure out the 'real pecking order' of your local 'goverment' and can determine what is truly your responsibilty. I'm sure you will have them eating out of your hand in no time.;-)