Prepping to lay some foot square Armstrong Vinyl Tile over an old chopped up but stuck down good linoleum. Plan on screwing down a layer of luan and laying the squares on that.
I usually flash the tiles with a torch to help activate the glue before seating but know some like to trowel on glue also. Never done that. What’s the deal on the troweled glue and is it something that should be done?
What type of glue?
Thanks
Key proposals for the next edition of the International Residential Code tackle room sizes, stair specs, emergency egress, and deck guards, among other requirements.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
I have never used self-stick tiles, but have do 1/8" glue down several times. use the manufacturers recommended adhesive and trowel. Over concrete, the trowel has very very small notches, and the glue flashes in 30 minutes or less. I think you have to use a thicker notch over ply because the ply sucks some of the moisture out of the glue. it's really easy to do. But it's hard on the fingertips. Keep a hairdryer handy, if you warm the tiles first they cut much easier. Just don't warm to the point of scorching, which can happen with a high-watt heat gun, or even a propane torch. Done that.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Think of it like priming before you paint.
My experience with peel and stick is that they are not very accurately cut.
For an average sized room, the adhesive is troweled all at once and left until tacky, almost dry. It's important to let it set up so that the tiles will not move after being laid. The adhesive will remain in a tacky condition for several hours, so no worries there.
The type of adhesive and size of trowel notch should be readily availble on Armstrong's web site. Read all the options to make sure that you're using the best stuff for the conditions.
Lay out lines remain visible through the adhesive, after it sets up.
Troweling the adhesive is really the fastest and easiest way to lay vinyl tiles. Just don't get carried away with the adhesive. Use the minimum amount and be consistent, otherwise it won't set up correctly and you'll be waiting for hours.
Once it has set up, laying the tiles is very quick. Just be sure to place each one precisely as they won't move after they're down. A pair of knee pads is a big help in staying focused and moving right along.
I've used a framing square and a utility knife for cuts. Helps to have a piece of plywood to cut on.
Edited 5/23/2008 4:51 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Try water based contact cement on the underlay.
Let me know how that works out.
Self stick is hard to get to stick down good by itself.
This is a vinyl tile cutting tool similar to one I bought at Home Depot for $50 and I think it is very handy for what you're doing
http://cgi.ebay.com/KUT-ALL-TILE-CUTTER-vct-MODEL-3W-549_W0QQitemZ300225932050QQihZ020QQcategoryZ20604QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
From my experience, You will need to put some effort into pushing each tile tight against the one already in place.
I got tired and I notice even that small gap of 1/32 between tiles
I laid my first tile in the middle of the room.
I worried that I would start the first one crooked and sure enough I did.
Looking back I should have laid the first tile against a straightedge, such as a level, so that I could measure points from each end of the level to a wall, and that way I would know I was starting in the correct place
I have had the 12" peel and stick tile in my kitchen for the past year and I have had a lot of compliments about it. I like them
Good luck!
.
+++
Spring Break = Summer Broke
I usually spread a coat of adhesive first. With sticky tiles it acts like contact cement. I never trust the adhesive on sticky tiles by itself, having seen too many failed applications.
--------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at AWorkOfWood.com
I can see adding a glue if applying over a questionable surface but over fresh laid luan it would seem that the product's self-adhesive should be enough
as I've never had a failed set before but if the majority here say to trowel on a glue then I'll go that way.
Any yea sayers to using just the self adhesive without the additional troweled on glue?
Thanks
I laid self-stick Armstrong Vinyl in a small bathroom over new luaun about six years ago. I didn't use any additional adhesive, and haven't had any problems. These were heavier tile and perhaps better quality than typical.
Rez, It's not the self adhesive that's so questionable, it's the intrusion of water through the cracks. There'll be no adhesive where the water penetrates, therefore nothing to seal the luan.
I'd advise you to forget the peel and stick feature and use plain tiles with troweled adhesive. Much faster and easier to apply that way. More accurate placing too, without having to hold the tile only by the edge. All together a much better, longer lasting job.
BTW, have you experimented using heat to loosen the old linoleum? It may come up easily if you warm it with an LP torch. A flat pry bar and a stiff scaper are all you need to get under the linoleum and peel it back.
when I did my kitchen floor a year ago I put down a layer of luan, then I patched all seams with durabond if I remember correctly and then I put on a coat of paint primer on the luan
When I installed the peel and stick tile I had to be careful because the glue was so sticky
When you lay a piece of tile the glue is so sticky it's hard to adjust it or move it slightly, even those first few seconds
I did not go over the tile with a roller
It's held up really well - we spill a lot of water on the floor etc as it is in the kitchen
Good luck
+++
Spring Break = Summer Broke
Paint primer. That is interesting.
Was it an oil base?
What type of durabond product was it?
Edited 5/23/2008 11:32 am ET by rez
I got my names mixed up.The stuff I used was "Durhams Water Putty" which dries rock hard.http://www.waterputty.com/pages/view.htmNow that I'm reading their website I'm thinking maybe it's not the best thing for a floor which may have some movement which would cause it to crack and crumbleI primered teh floor with one of the zinser primers. It was water based and it worked just fine..+++Spring Break = Summer Broke
Here's a few pictures of the flooring process+++Spring Break = Summer Broke
Armstronge and Henry have floor patch materials.I think that some is cememt based and some is plaster.Years ago I installed some self adhesive tile from Color Tile. They sold a primer. I think that it was a PVA based product similar to PVA primer or the concrete bonding agent. But it has been 20 years so I might not be remember ing correctly..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
http://www.buyhardwaresupplies.com/?t=5&m=g1&itemNumber=5107974Primerhttp://www.armstrong.com/resflram/na/tile/en/us/article17689.html"Do I need to buy glue even though I'm putting in self-stick tiles?
No extra glue is needed. Self-stick tiles are backed with specially formulated pressure-sensitive adhesive. Make sure the subfloor is clean and free of dust, dirt, oil and paint.Then roll the floor with a kitchen rolling pin after installation. S-185 primer can be used over concrete and wood to enhance the bond. No additional adhesive is recommended."The S-185 primer is sold for use with their floor patch.http://www.armstrong.com/resflram/na/home/en/us/flooring-buyers-guide-vinyl-tile-install-options.html"If the tile is self-adhesive, it's a good idea to apply a latex primer to the subfloor before installation.".
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Something odd happened a couple of years ago
I bought one box of peel and stick tile to do a small bathroom and THE PAPER WOULD NOT COME OFF THE BACK !
It was stuck to the glue
+++
Spring Break = Summer Broke
Thanks all.
Well, I got to thinkin'.
Removed the old linoleum on that kitchen floor today in prep to lay some luan.
This has got to be one of the funkiest floors to deal with. Somewhere along the history of the place the bath and kitchen area was reno'd and what they did was
placed 2x6s perpendicular to the old 2x8s of the original floor joists
only the original floor joists had 7/8" thick 1x12s/1x16s on the joists and 1x4 tongue and groove on top of that.
Then the new 2x6s were placed on these little 8" stilts made from 3/4" t&g and nailed to the sides of the 2x6s lifting the joists 2 1/2" off the 1 3/4" thick original flooring. These were placed about 7 to 8 foot apart on each joist.
Needless to say there are many squeaks and movement when walking on the 9foot wide floor.
Even with luan going down before the Armstrong self-adhesived foot square vinyl tile is there possibility of the movement messing with the longterm adhesive properties or am I overthinking this too much.
I was tempted to trade in the vinyl squares for some rolled vinyl instead.
And one more, what should be used to secure the luan?
that much movement...
go with the sheet goods....
luan....
is it for underlayment as prescibed by the manufacturer????
or the economy junk????
trowel one of the mastics down such as the type rated for paneling or FRP....
set the luan and staple the snot out of it...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
5.2 mm ext. hardwood
does it say underlayment on it???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
No, just exterior hardwood.
this yur project???
go with the sheet goods and hope it doesn't delaminate...
if you use the squares water will get to it as shure as there are green apples and it's history aftwr that...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Makes sense.
how deep ya gonna tear down???
if not at all... glue the sheet goods down only on the perimeter to allow for movement...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Down to the old t&g.
If it was mine I'd sand the floors but dollars and cents look for sense.
renail or screw the T&G and proceed....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Talked the ol' boy into a vinyl sheet and it is the cats meow.
Thanks
good....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
It sounds like a mess. I can't get a clear picture from your description. From what I think you are dealing with, I would go to the primary joists. Rip everything above out. We're not talking a whole lot of money for wood here, even if it is a PITA.
If the original joists are ok, I would build a new floor up from that point. Glue and screw to the joists, and take care of leveling if it is an issue. Once you have your new subfloor in, put in the underlayment. I would use any hardwood 1/8" plywood, such as oak or birch. These will have no voids and will not bleed through like lauan.
I used stainless steel ring shank nails at 4" OC recently, and it seems to hold well. You probably don't need SS, but I go the extra mile. I hand nail to get the head just below the surface. If you go too deep, the depression will eventually show up in the vinyl. If you go too shallow, the nail head will eventually show up too, probably right after you finish the job.
Some people have recommended to me that the underlayment should just be glued to the subfloor. You could do that, but I think that if you do the nailing right, it would be just like wearing suspenders and a belt at the same time.
rez
We have laid quite a bit of self adhesive tile.
I try to have new underlayment. I use the primer that is made for the tiles (Henrys I think).
I start in the middle. I lay straight edge along one axis and lay tiles to that.
One poster mentioned paper being stuck to the glue. Warm it up with a heat gun and they will pull right off. Hence, I think it is wise to have your tiles warm.
I spend the $10 a rent a linoleum roller to make sure everything is well adhered.
We have had good success with prime, peel and stick. But i try to buy the highest grade I can get.
Rich