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Asbestos siding panels?

Pierre1 | Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on September 24, 2004 10:32am

No doubt some of you guys work on 1940s or 1950s vintage houses… I’ve been asked to advise on a major reno for a 1954 2-storey with attached garage.

This place is sided with 24″ high and 8′ long overlapping panels. The panels are very thin, 1/8″ or so, fastened with nails (and apparently the holes were pre-drilled as the panels are and always were brittle), then painted with a glossy exterior paint.

The owner (original owner’s son) says his dad told him these were an asbestos composite. Incredibly, these panels are throughout the interior: on the inside walls, inside closets, on ceilings, everywhere. The seams are poorly finished, as the edges are not bevelled like drywall.

I suggested he get an engineering outfit in there to take a bunch of swab samples and see if there are asbestos particles present in cupboards, in corners, in kitchen cabinets, in the bedrooms, etc. I’ll try and burn a piece with a propane torch…

You experienced fellows know if asbestos panels were used in residential finishing in the ’50s?

If I knew how to post .jpg pics (couldn’t find FHB’s instructions anywheres) I’d show you the stuff. There’s a slight swirl of darker and lighter areas on the panels, where they’re not painted over.

All this is too bad as the house’s structural fundamentals are excellent. The wiring and the supply plumbing, on the other hand, suck big time.

Thanks


Edited 9/24/2004 3:34 am ET by Pierre1

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  1. DANL | Sep 24, 2004 03:11pm | #1

    Sounds like asbestos panels to me; though I was just born in the 50's, I've seen the stuff--but usually on the outside and in panels that are ridged like shakes. I think because the fibers are incased in a cement to form the panels, they aren't as dangerous as asbestos where the fibers are loose and flying around (like in pipe insulation). Could you just sheet rock over it to encapsulate it? Maybe put up a sheet-like barrier first, or spray with glue or size to help contain any particles?

  2. User avater
    rjw | Sep 24, 2004 03:13pm | #2

    They sound like they might well be asbestos-cement panels.

    Since they generally aren't friable, they don't pose much of a risk if undisturbed; sanding or scraping them could cause significant problems.

    Have it tested, and if it has asbestos, cya and get a asbestos expert in to advise on how to deal with it



    Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace

    1. johnAwalker | Sep 28, 2004 10:06am | #7

      I've posted an article on The Tavern re: James Hardies screwing of workers down here in Oz, sorry its not about your question but I feel this needs to out there.

      Cheers JOHNhttp://www.johnwalkerbuilders.com

  3. User avater
    CapnMac | Sep 24, 2004 08:16pm | #3

    If I knew how to post .jpg pics (couldn't find FHB's instructions anywheres).

    It's not bad--but it can be very very very slow on dial-up. 

    At the bottom of the page there's five blue buttons.  Right next to "Spell Check" is "Attach Files." (It may be that you need to be in "Advanced View, too, I'm not recalling if that is so just now.)

    When you click on hte attach files button, a new window opens.  Click on Browse to select the file.  Then hit Upload.  This can take a while.  it can take a long while (like make and eat a sammitch while).  After the files are uploaded, the file name will appear in magenta at the top of the window.  Then, and only then should you hit the Done button (any sooner an you are signalling to abort the process).

    Hope that helps.

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
    1. Pierre1 | Sep 25, 2004 05:36am | #4

      Thanks guys. CapnMac, I'm working on this jpg posting stuff, but Olympus' Camedia software does a great job of hiding the path down which the pics are stored. I've got a question into OlympusAmerica, and so I must be patient. Will get back with pics in 3 or 4 days.

      1. User avater
        CapnMac | Sep 27, 2004 05:04pm | #5

        Camedia software does a great job of hiding the path down which the pics are stored

        Ah so desu ka.

        If you "know" a file name (like IMG00056a.jpg) use the Search feature under the Start button.  Under file name enter IMG*.jpg (or whatever is appropriate), and let the machine search the hard drive.  That will give you the path.

        Like as not, it's C:Documents and Settingsuser nameMy Pictures

        If not, it's C:Program Filesolympus (or Camedia)My Photos, or something similar.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

        1. Pierre1 | Sep 28, 2004 07:40am | #6

          Thanks for the help Capn. Search turned up this path, but when I upload, the Breaktime dialog box shows the file size as 0KB. The actual file is named P9210011 and it's size is 140KB.

          C:WINDOWSAll UsersApplication DataOLYMPUSCamedia Master 4AlbumSamples23 Park CrescentP9210011

          Must be missing something.

          1. User avater
            CapnMac | Sep 28, 2004 07:41pm | #10

            P9210011 and it's size is 140KB.

            C:WINDOWSAll UsersApplication DataOLYMPUSCamedia Master 4AlbumSamples23 Park CrescentP9210011

            Must be missing something.

            You'll likely need to poke in My Computer, go into the folder, then under Tools, Folder Options, View, scroll down to find the checkbox for Fide Extension of known file types, and make sure that it is off (unchecked).  The P9210011 file could be almost anything.  If it is a jpg (or jpeg), it should attach during the upload with no sweat.  Pospero (the "engine" that runs the forum) may not "like" files without an extension (the difference being between P9210011 and P9210011.jpg possibly mattering to firewall protections).

            Image files that (seem) to be permitted are jpg, gif, bmp, tiff, & wmf.  All of the sudden, CRS strikes, and I cannot remember the neat online service the experienced folk here use to compress big jpg files (one should pop in with the right answer--or Search the forum for "upload").  140KB is not too big, though--ought to be ok.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

      2. JohnT8 | Sep 28, 2004 09:18pm | #11

        Hey Peirre1, I've got the Olympus 720.  I just use Windows Explorer to download my pics to the PC.

        Or if you're used to My Computer, bring that up and then click on "folders" (brings up the folders window on the left side).  If the camera is plugged into the PC, you should see a listing for 'removable device' (or some such).  If you click on the removable device...and probably into a folder (DCIM or something), you should see the pics on the camera.

        I just highlight them all (ctrl-a) and drag them to my picture folder on C:

        And by the by, my 720 pics come in as jpg's, but most have to be shrunk down to post on the forum.   If I left them at max resolution/size, a dial up person would spend 10 minutes downloading each one.

        jt8

  4. IanDG | Sep 28, 2004 05:06pm | #8

    Asbestos cement panels, 1/8" thick, were very common in the 50s and 60s for siding and as a sub-base for tiles and stucco.

    Although most of them used white asbestos fibre, which is not the type that causes mesothelioma, some of the early stuff could contain blue asbestos so you ought to get a piece tested.

    Mega-bucks for removal if it's blue asbestos though.

    IanDG

  5. ian | Sep 28, 2004 05:40pm | #9

    FWIW the panels are almost certainly asbestos fibre cement, i.e. cement reinforced with asbestos fibres.  There used to be special nails that could be driven through asbestos sheet with a hammer.  

    There ae two main views on what to do:
    1)   use a specialist (OSHA licienced?) contractor to rip it all out and dispose of it
    2)   leave it where it is but make sure you don't generate dust by cutting it with a saw or drilling holes, or sanding it.  Taking to the stuff with power tools is possible, but you would want to kit yourself out with really really good dust collection.  Festo is the only manufacturer I know who makes cutting tools and dust collection equipment rated for carconogenic dusts.

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