A realtor had me doing the repairs required by house inspector before escrow closes on a 1970’s condo. One item on the list was to remove asbestos tape from ducting coming out of the top of the FAU. I told him that I am not qualified to do asbestos removal work.
Thinking about it, it would seem to me that removal would release asbestos particles into the air, so it might be safer to passivate that old asbestos tape by covering it with new, high quality duct tape.
What do the experts think?
BruceT
Replies
The liability risk is too great. Don't touch it.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"The liability risk is too great. Don't touch it."Thanks. I don't intend to touch it, but to suggest they contact a HVAC contractor and ask about covering it instead of expensive asbestos removal.
BruceT
Asbestos tape in the 70's, I doubt it.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
just because it was know to be bad back then, doesn't mean that some folks A) didn't believe it or B) ignored the dangers. Heck, folks still take up smoking these days despite medical warning.
Edited 11/28/2007 9:55 am ET by msm-s
The only way to know for sure is to have it tested. The old asbestos tape was very thick, 1/8" or so. Regardless, it's easy enough to encapsulate with commercial duct tape like Scapa 443.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Exactly.
Regualar "duct tape" is not that good of product anyway and will come off in a couple of years.
But the current practice is to cover the asbestos with a passive material.
On TOH a couple of years ago they redid a kitchen and found heating pipes covered with asbestos insulation.
They covered it with wrap coated soaked in a resin. Did not need any protective clothing while doing this.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"They covered it with wrap coated soaked in a resin. Did not need any protective clothing while doing this."Thanks for the confirmation. Was that a HVAC contractor who did the encapsulation or asbestos remediation contractor?
BruceT
I think that it was some one from the abestos industry, but not sure. It was a couple of years ago..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks, I'll suggest that my client contact a pro for asbestos encapsulation.
BruceT
They should contact someone certified.
Encapsulation isn't always best in the long term - it is much more difficult to remove encapsulated asbestos when it does come time to be rid of it. When it is not painted or encapsulated it can easily be wetted during removal to help prevent airborn fibers. On the other hand, if the duct can be taken out as a unit and replaced without disturbing the tape, it may not matter.
Thanks Nat. I'll pass your suggestion along to the HO.
BruceT
Needs to be a specialist. Encapsulation is FAR preferable to removal.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks, I'll suggest that my client contact a pro for asbestos encapsulation.
BruceT
Encapsulation is FAR preferable to removal
Encapsulation is ####. Hides the problem, then in a few years some poor schmuck gets a load of tremolite while working on the HVAC. The proper thing is removal, hiding it is like leaving a loaded gun pointed at someone else.
A few years?Whose estimate?tests taken in schools where asbestos has been professionally removed to "protect" the kids shows greater amopunts of airborne asbestos two and three years after removalthan before that step is taken.The whole 'science' on asbestos gets pretty wacky. My opinion stands. Encapsulation is safer
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That is not what I said, and a school is much different that a SFR.
On a minor job, like the HVAC of a SFR, there is a high chance that the knowlege of the asbestos will be forgotten in years to come, after several changes of ownership. Then you have a huge chance of someone getting an unknown exposure, because the asbestos has been hidden. This is especially possible when asbestos flooring is covered up.
So you are telling me that there is no chance of a future HVAC technician cutting into that asbestos covered duct in the future, not knowning that it is asbestos? If the asbestos can be seen, and removed, it should. Encapulation is just legal hiding, and is BS.
tests taken in schools where asbestos has been professionally removed to "protect" the kids shows greater amopunts of airborne asbestos two and three years after removalthan before that step is taken.
Source?
You are dealing with some small CHANCE in the FUTURE.I am making a real recommendation for here and now.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
>>So you are telling me that there is no chance of a future HVAC technician cutting into that asbestos covered duct in the future, not knowning that it is asbestos? If the asbestos can be seen, and removed, it should. Encapulation is just legal hiding, and is BS.I'd say the odds of such a screw up are pretty low.For issues like this, memories are long and encapsulated asbestos wrappings (of which I've seen many) are pretty obvious.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
I'm curious as to your "credentials" for that opinion.Personally, as a home inspector, I have attended a lot of seminars by various experts over the years, and the consensus (there's that word again) is that in most cases encapsulation is better, especially in this scenario.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
I'm with Piffin on this one. Encapsulation is not hiding it, its encapsulating it. Painted asbestos doesnt magically become invisible you know.
Hello,
I've done quite a bit of remodeling in old hospitals and colleges. We ran across asbestos weekly. Sometimes it was encapsulated from a previous remodel. Sometimes we were the first to uncover it. In both situations, we removed it. The hospitals were federally owned, the colleges were state owned. When asbestos is encapsulated, it needs to be properly identified so that the next person to open up the wall can know what they are looking at.
In this situation, the sample needs to be taken by someone who is certified, analyzed by someone who is certified, and abated by someone who is certified. If you are being paid to do this, and you are not qualified/certified, you are taking huge unnecessary risks. Let them hire a pro, or some less responsible contractor who will do only what they ask.
My home was built in '73, and I've found that all the original kitchen and bath flooring was asbestos containing material, and the drywall popcorn, splatter texture, and joint compound is also asbestos containing material. As a homeowner, I can do whatever I please within my own house. I just can't dispose of the ACMs without alerting the landfill. As a remodeler, if I see potential ACMs in a project, I call the pros to test it, and the pros to abate it. I don't want the liability. Sometimes a homeowner won't care if they have ACMs in their house or not. When I tell them that I reccomend abatement, they generally dismiss me and hire a less responsible contractor to complete their project. That's ok too.
Main Point: Don't mess with the potential ACM
>>Needs to be a specialist. If hired out. Basically, there are no restrictions on homeowners aside from disposal issues.>>Encapsulation is FAR preferable to removal.Yep.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
As Bill said.
In some cases, simply painting it with latex paint can be effective.
DON"T wrap it with duct tape: the adhesives in duct tape have a very short life, and you'll create a bigger problem down the road.
Use of asbestos materials was significantly in the 70's, and pretty much done by '78.
I'm not so sure about that "1/8 inch" bit, but don't definitively know one way or the other, although I've seen tape on old gravity furnaces which was very likely to have asbestos which wasn't that thick.
May your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
"We Live" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kuBgh0VCqI&mode=related&search
And Annie Ross's "Twisted" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lqivrCIRGo&mode=related&search=
IMO best bet, if it doesnt need to come out, you can paint it to seal the asbestos and keep the fibers contained.
You're right that disturbing it would likely release fibers into the air.
Asbestos certification has always seemed a bit funny to me. I'm not making light of this but essentially all they do is encapsulate themselves, spray the asbestos with water and remove it to trash bags.
I'll assume the cert has more to do with proper disposal.
Bruce,
While I'm not an expert, I have seen a lot of duct work go in over the years. The standard practice when I started working in the mid 70's was using Hardcast to seal sheet metal duct joints.
It is a two part system consisting of a white, mineral/fiber impregnated tape, that you ran through a bucket of liquid sealer, then cut the tape to length and pasted it on the duct. I haven't seen anyone use it since the early 80's, and to the untrained eye, someone could mistake this material for asbestos I supppose.
http://www.hardcast.com/products/pdfs/2PARTII.pdf
If it really is asbestos tape, and you decide to encapsulate it, Hardcast makes a number of water base mastics that are used to seal ductwork. Here's one that is UL listed and approved for use in the city of Los Angeles.
http://www.hardcast.com/products/pdfs/2PARTII.pdf
Thanks, I'll pass that along. Looks like they still need a specialist if only to determine whether it's asbestos or not.
BruceT