I need help! I am very handy with my hands and I am about to buy a older colonial. The only problem is there is asbestos siding, I want to go over it with vinyl siding. I am just unsure of a few things, first the process of covering it up, and about building the trim out to look right. Any suggestions? Is there a book out there? or A website?Has anyone out there done a job in New Jersey and know the codes? I am lost any help or information would be great?
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Putting vinyl over asbestos shingles. Good luck.
There is a house near me that has asbestos shingles. It has been for sale for almost 5 years. The price is almost rediculously low, and it still hasn't sold. Not even to me, and I flip houses for profit.
Asbestos siding makes everything almost impossible. You can't remove it without HUGE expense. You can't nail through it, because it's just too brittle. And you can't drill through it because of the dust.
If you are not yet committed to the purchase, you should look up the local building code officials. They can tell you what's legal and what's not concerning this stuff. It may influence your decision.
And if your are already committed, well, look up those officials anyway. You'll need their advice.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
Well, there is always the option of just leaving it alone. It takes paint well, and wears better than vinyl or aluminum anyway, as long as you don't break it as it is brittle.
I would not put anything over it, vinyl would require nails through the asbestos shingles to install, and that is exactly what you want to avoid.
It does make it very difficult to do any exterior work which would require cutting the siding, but it is no hazard if it is intact and left alone. Proper removal and disposal (which is the most difficult part) is not a DIY job.
If you can't live with it, get some estimates based on sq footage, there are a lot of companies out there doing abatement work as competition has driven down prices (at least for the labor, not for the disposal).
Edited 2/10/2005 2:54 pm ET by RickD
Wow . . . timely post. I've just finished a reno of an asbestos sided duplex that I've owned for about 18 years. I've posted here and answered questions before about asbestos siding. I've got two rental houses with it.
The renovation I just did, here in south Georgia, involved a dramatic upgrade to the exterior. Bottom line, I removed the asbestos and re-sided with Hardi Plank. Absolutely the best decision for me. Looks like a new house. I've worked with the asbestos a lot over that years, but if you're going to do anything other than leave it in place, you should just get rid of it entirely.
We covered the ground with plastic and cut the nail heads with nippers. Broke a few tiles, but we contained most of it. I didn't use an abatement firm, I used day laborers with white dust masks. I know, I know. Fact is, I don't even know these guys names, my lead carpenter hired them. Hey, they both needed Christmas money for their kids. Better than selling plasma, right ?
So I can handle the disposal - they'll take it at my landfill, they just charge a little more than for typical construction debris.
Give it some thought. You'll be glad of the final result. You might be surprised at the small volume of debris that the asbestos will make.
Greg
Our rules here are about the same. No real added costs to remove as homeowner. Wear the mask and outfit, keep wet, don't eat, double-bag, take to the landfill. Our house has 3 different sidings, 1/3 is asbestos, it will be removed soon-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Have you seen my baseball?"
I live in Woodbridge (central NJ), and had the same situation on my house. We painted the asbestos siding after a good power-washing, and that lasted a few years. Once I got around to it, we had vinyl installed over the siding. As much as it sounds like this wouldn't be possible, the siding subs around here do it everyday with no problems. You nail the fanfold insulation over the siding to level it off (as few nails as possible to avoid cracking shingles), and then install the vinyl over it. As brittle as the shingles are, the sharp points of the roofing nails will often just punch thru them, and the pieces that do crack are contained by the fanfold anyway.
People make a bigger deal out of this than they need to.
Bob
Bob thanks for the help. my only question is did the trim look funny or did you need to build it out? What did you use for trim? Thanks again for everyones input
Like most vinyl siding jobs that cover over existing siding (be it claps, cedar shingles, whatever), you can pack the window trim out with 1x or 5/4 and wrap it all in aluminum. Just make sure you extend any drip caps/mouldings so they cover the extended trim.
Bob
We reside over asbestos with vinyl all the time. Like Bob said, we nail foam underlayment over the old siding at the high point of each lap which provides a nice smooth surface over which all the siding and trim pieces nail. No need to build anyhing out if you are using all vinyl accessories for the trim. We cap existing wood trim with aluminum bent on site with a brake.
Richie
Hey guys, say rpear leaves the asbestos on ... and covers it with siding. Would the following techniques give sound results?
I imagine one could fasten - with screws and adhesive - vertical 2x, 16"oc, to which new horizontal siding (wood, vinyl, hardiplank...) would be nailed securely. Or fasten horizontal 2x to which shingles or board'n'batten could be fastened. I'm suggesting 2x on the flat rather than 1x, for depth, to avoid having siding nails pierce the asbestos.
Is this a workable idea?
Edited 2/10/2005 10:48 pm ET by Pierre1
Pierre-
I've seen that done as well. Some of the siding contractors run 1x's vertically at 16" oc, and use them to attach new siding.
Bob
I would add that the workers need a HEPA-filtered mask as the white dusts masks do not filter out small particles the size of asbestos fragments. In addition, keep the material wet (by misting with a surfactant solution) during removal and bagging. A soapy water soultion should work just fine, and you can use a common garden pump sprayer.
maybe i just like to live dangerously but i think that the health problems people have had with asbestos came from working around it for many years. just as smoking for many years can cause cancer, sometimes. Hardi dust causes cancer and how many people do you see wearing masks to cut it.i know, i'm probably just being tough or something but i've seen quite a few people smoking and talking about how bad asbestos is or house mold or greasy cheeseburgers and so on anyways i'm just hoping to stir up some trouble.
maybe i just like to live dangerously but i think that the health problems people have had with asbestos came from working around it for many years.
Asbestos can have a 25 year latency period before sypmtoms show up. The thing to keep in mind with asbestos exposure is that the fibers you breath generally lodge in your lung tissue and are not expelled. The fiber fragments have barbs that embed in the tissue. The body will form a scar around the fibers. Scar tissue is not elastic. In addition, as asbestos is a known carcinogen, it can exponentially increase the liklihood of cancer when combined with exposure to other carcingens (smoking, chemicals, solvents,etc).
Also, if you hire workers to remove the asbestos siding, or even clean up the asbestos contaminated debris, you have a duty to communicate the hazard and provide worker protection. If you are doing the work yourself, on your own home, you can do what you want, as long as there are no visible emissions impacting your neighbor's property (keep the siding and debris wet).
If you are doing the work yourself, on your own home, you can do what you want, as long as there are no visible emissions impacting your neighbor's property (keep the siding and debris wet).
If I'm correct, the snag is what does a homeowner do with the debris? It seems with my roofing endeavors that the only reason to hire the abatement firm was for disposal.Like the Tucson, I shall rise again from the ashes.
" the snag is what does a homeowner do with the debris?"Have you called the dumpster folk?? Depending on where you are, it might be no more than double bag, label, inform, and pay more.Then they deal with it identically to every other load of trach they haul.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Check with the local landfill to see if they accept asbestos debris, and what there container requirements are. Most often, it will be double bagged. The landfill here in South Florida has a special area where they bury asbestos debris. I do not remember if it cost anymore to dump it than regular debris.
I regularly worked with airborne asbestos in the early seventies and occasionally since then. I have yet to find any evidence of trouble. From all I have read, the scarring only developes to a degree that causes disease symptoms in those who worked for years around it and who smoked cigarettes. There seems to be strong indications that the cigarette tars added to the asbestos fibers is what leads to scarring severe enough to be problematic. If you have hard evidence that I am wrong, please lead me in the right path
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From what I remember, scarring (asbestosis), mesothelioma, and lung cancer have been identified in individuals that never smoked. More likely is that the carconigens in tobacco "exponentially increased" the chances of the individual developing one of the above diseases.
Genetics may make an individual more or less likely to develop one of these diseases. Just like some people can smoke their entire life and never develop emphysema, but that does not mean there is no danger!
If you feel comfortable breathing the fibers in, fine, but I would not recommend that someone else does it.
Also, if your initial long term exposure was when you were in your 20's or 30's, you may die by other casues before you ever develop symptoms from asbestos exposure. Some studies say 20-25 years, but I have also seen some quote 35-40 years.
You could Google for a health and safety research site, or even the EPA or CDC for more info.
I've had 10-15 asbestos roofs abated and I've yet to see anyone wearing a mask. Most of the roofing (and siding ) materials just use asbestos for a binder. They are not pure asbestos, like pipe insulation is. The samples I've taken in for testing were less than 10%. If care is used in removal and the material is not friable, the siding should pose no risk. What will tell the tale is having a piece tested. Look in the yellow pages and there should be test lab locally. The last one I had done cost less than $50.00. That way, you know exactly what you've got. Oh, I'm not advocating the non-use of HEPA resperators. I'm just reporting my observations.Scissors cut paper. Rock breaks scissors. Paper wraps rock.
Well again thanks for the information I feel more confident about taking on this siding job. Everyone has been a big help to me!
I do not think respirators are required for removing roofing materials that contain asbestos as long as the materials are not friable, are not likely to become friable (by sawing, grinding, or abrading), and there are no visible emissions. In general (typically), asbestos in roofing materials are limited to mastics/flashing cement, and generally run 2-5%.
Asbestos cement siding (usually 20%-30%, but can be higher) would be difficult, if not impossible, to remove without breaking the material and (potentially) releasing fibers, which I believe would trigger NESHAP requirements (such as wet methods and PPE).
And if someone charged you $50 to analyze an asbestos sample, you got ripped off! I have seen the labs around here (South Florida) do it for $15.
In general (typically), asbestos in roofing materials are limited to mastics/flashing cement, and generally run 2-5%.
I'm refering to asbestos slate - similar to the siding in question.
And if someone charged you $50 to analyze an asbestos sample, you got ripped off!
I said less than $50.00. I knew it wasn't very expensive, but I didn't feel like looking back thru 3 years of invoices to verify the exact amount. But hey, thanks for trying to make me feel like a dumbass for taking the right precautions.
Like the Tucson, I shall rise again from the ashes.
I live on an island in south Jersey and there are a ton of houses that were built in the late 50's, early 60's with asbestos siding. I agree with a lot which was said above. The stuff wears like iron, even in this salt air, and takes paint well after a good power washing. One problem I consistently see though is that moisture gets behind the siding and rots the sheathing. You would never know it from the outside as the asbestos shows no sign of wear, but you remove the siding and there can be almost no sheathing left. I see this quite often, especially if there is a break in the siding where they have tried to work on the house (install cable, put up new downspout straps, change windows, etc.) I have also seen and done many a job where we sided over the existing siding. Obviously, the best solution is to tear down the original siding and to side the house over with whatever you wish. In New Jersey, you have to get a special environmental waste company to remove the debris. I have not done it, but was told it would run around $500 to have it removed. (It's funny, but I heard that in Pennsylvania right next door they will take it with the trash!)
In most cases, we have sided right over the exisiting asbestos siding by insulatating with foam panels then siding over that. No real problem at all.
I've always thought asbestos was a HEALTH concern and never an environmental concern (it comes right out of the earth anyway). As opposed to something like lead paint which is both a health and environment problem.
So why do we need to dispose of it under special regulations? I think it's just a bunch of misinformed do-gooder politicians making these rules.
MERC