I’ve recently signed on to act as GC for a mid size renovation. My client is not against using my subs but (in these times) he obviously wants the best deal he can get.
What’s on your bid package that you give to various sub-contractors?
First things in my mind are, Insurance / workmans comp policy, proper licensing, and fixed timelines. What about over runs (both time and money) and what about fines levied for unwarranted delays that postpone progress of the job.
Thanks for any advice in advance. I would really like to assemble a relatively generic package for this project that I could hand out to any potential subs. I think it would help to have a standard form of some sort (even if only for office use).
Family…..They’re always there when they need you.
Replies
If it were me and it isn't....
I would educate him in the fact that timing is often everything. The subs I use are reliable, fair priced and commited. Mix new with the established and you run the risk of jumbling up a usual smooth running job.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I never use a mixed group like that cause usually the homeowners guy screws up everyone else and then the home owner is all into you. never works does it.
I've mixed in a couple of the homowners people over the years and I guess I've been lucky. I gave them the usual advance notice well ahead of when I would be ready for them. I did emphasize that if god didn't get involved I would make that date of being ready. And as luck would have it, I was, they showed and the end result was fine. However, sometimes it doesn't work that way and look who looks bad.......not the homo and certainly not their "guy".
If I'm in charge and there's a way, then I'll bring the entire package.
I remember one case that really broiled me. Their floor guy. I get the room stocked with board on Friday. Come in Saturday to make some final adjustments and what do I see?
Floor guys tile stacked in the middle of the room.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I'm with you on this and I am pushing my guys, but the ho already has a cement guy lined up, so I have no choice in that (though I may show my guy anyways).
I totally agree with you. I can rely on my guys and I know exactly what kind of product they will deliver.
Sometimes you gotta play ball though. Also over the years we have developed a good relationship (me and the HO) and I know he would be pretty understanding about delays caused by subs I dont have a history with.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Congrats Mark on landing a job up there in the depression zone.
YOu might be the only building permit in the office so it probably should go smooth.
It may go smoothly except i've heard bad things about the planner in this city. He made us jump through a few hoops just to get on the plan revue schedule.
We'll see how it goes. With the budget as it is, we may have to do this job in phases.
How are things going in Texas?
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Which city? You would think the planners would be glad to get something on their desk to revue eh?
Texas is a mixed bag for me personally because I'm not a fan of remodeling but overall the economy here in Austin is actually pretty healthy. The big nationals have slowed down so there are more contruction people out hustling but that just started this past fall/winter. There are signs that the stimulus money is stimulating sales in the big new subs but there isn't any opportunity for white skilled framers or framing companies, which happens to be my chosen specialty. I suppose I could hire a couple truckloads of dayworkers and jungle frame it too but that ain't my style.
The ice cream shop is about ready to open. We are waiting for the service trailer to be wheeled in. That could happen any day. The electrician is wiring up the fans in the patio areas. The water line is completed and we are waiting on an inspection. I won't be involved in any day to day operations there but I will be on the tasting and testing commitee.
I also have agreed to a new business arrangement with a fellow MI business guy that I've mentioned here several times. Hes the guy that operates the roofing business in MI that has been quite successful. He's coming to evaluate the business model here and see if it will work. If it will, then we will start up immediately. The preliminary findings seem solid. He wants to test/use our market as a franchise opportunity and qute frankly, I think it will work. I can't tell you much about why I think it will work because that info is proprietory. This guy is a sharp guy and he's still selling roofs in MI right now! It helps that he has an MBA in finance, has won awards, and has specialized certification in the roofing industry.
We'll see how it goes once he shows up.
The thing that appeals to me about roofing is that you can establish a unit value. That is huge because you can use basic business practices to create your pricing model including markup and profit. Contrast that to framing which is subject to too many variables. Framing was fun but I would hardly call it a business. It was more like a starving artist's canvas. You might get something beautiful created but it might not pay the bills. Also, everyone needs a roof! Even if they delay in getting one, when the water starts dripping on their head while they are trying to sleep, that will convince them LOL. The hail storms in this town make it an appealing model too. I had to stop by to collect a check from a bath remodel client and half the houses in the neighborhood had roofing signs on them! The lady told me that the other half had already contracted to get new roofs too but they just didn't want the signs up!
How about your landlording biz? Are the tenants paying. That would be my main concern there in MI. I'm sure there are lots of decent folks that need to rent now but I'm not sure they will have the money when the rents due.
Frank is doing well with his foreclosure servicing biz back there. He tells me that lots of contractors are trying to get into the biz but it takes a lot of hoops to jump through and they better be prepared for the long wait for pay. But, he says the money is good but he's putting in loooong hours 7 days a week. For instance, he gets $50 to haul away a 5 gallon bucket of paint. He says he's hauled away so many ladders that he doesn't bother storing them anymore LOL!
Huntington woods. The plan is very good and very complete so if we have any trouble it will be a politics thing. I think we'll be okay though. Not to surprised that white skill tradespeople arent in demand that close to the border. The other endeavors sound promising, good luck with both. If they're better tenants out there, I havent found them. I have six units filled with very clean rent paying people. No complaints except that i dont have more units. I have one flip for sale and me and my tile guy are looking for one too.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I don't think I ever pulled a permit in Huntingwoods. I think I did some framing there on an addition many years ago but that wasn't really my stomping grounds.
Are you guys able to get financing on the investors homes now or are you using private capital?
I just had a guy (the landlord that owns the storage yard that our bus is in) mention that he was selling the yard in the near future. He mentioned that it would pull in 2250 per month if fully occupied, less management and expenses. He said he would want 150k which includes 125k for the land and 25k for the biz. In the next breath he mentioned that he'd probably give the biz away.
He only has two vacancies on the thirty or so storage units but he has about 6 units for his own stuff.
The numbers look good and I'm going to start hunting for financing. He also said that he would entertain some short term financing. He didn't want to get into a long term loan because of his fears of inflation. This would be commercial property in a decent part of town. The area was hit last year by thieves and hes got cameras now and heavier duty doors on the units.
I've got a new email if you are interested. I think I know someone that will be interested already but a bird in hand...
I'd love to get in on a commercial deal. Thats my goal but right now im broke. I've partnered with my tile guy. Were looking for some cheap houses we can flip fast to regain liquidity. I've got alot of debt to clean up and with business as it is...........lets just say my credit score may not be as good as it was last year.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
My feelings are such that you need to mark the job up as though his subs are partially your subs b/c you know you'll end up having to deal with them and around them. You need to be paid for that. How much is up to you.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Thanks Andy, but I was looking for sugestions as to providing bid packages to the subs. I have a payment arrangement already set up for myself with the HO.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
What kind of bid package info are you thinking about? Wouldn't a set of plan and specs suffice?
YOu might want to check out that link in the Excel thread that is running. I think I saw something there that applied to vendors and subs.
Beside plans I guess i'm looking for criteria for the subs like possibly fines for holding up progress with no valid reason, of course copies of insurance. I guess there's really not much more.
The whole reason I ask is that most of the projects i've done of this size were for myself and I didnt have any problems with my crews cause we all know each other and work together. On someone else's job though, I figure I may need a little more organization.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I understand now.
Grant sent me a subcontractors agreement a while back that I thought was pretty good. I found some clauses in there that I liked and used.
You sound like you need a good subcontractors contract. Something that lays out the contract and also defines expectations. For instance, you might not want rap music playing or any radio for that matter. You might not want smoking, drinking etc. All those would/should be included in the bid specs.
Yes, these are the things i'm looking for.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Another issue is sub contractor loyalty. Does his subs have the right to talk to neighbors about a job or do they have to pass the inquiry onto you?
And, what about proprietory information. Can they learn your secret processes, then tell their regular GC about them and use them against you?
I like the loyality thing though depending on the sub, once the job is finished if they get called back for something I dont do anyway, i'm not going to break anyones balls over that.
I had a friend worek with me for awhile, then I found out that he went back to a job I brought him to without even telling me. When I was real slow he actually told me he'd call this person and see if he could get me back in!
What BS! I've known this guy for 15 years and when he lost his job I did everything I could to keep him busy. Thats how he pays me back.
Mighty white of him, getting me back into a place I brought him.
Oh, did I mention I know this guy from church?
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Edited 5/16/2009 12:56 pm ET by MSA1
Yeh, I know...I suppose I was thinking out loud for myself. thinking that somehow when the HO gets his people involved...thinking he's going to save himself money while I run most of the job...I find myself feeling a little resentful b/c deep down I know "I'm" going to be doing part of the job he should be doing with his sub/s...and to make things a hair worse it's probably not a good idea to explain that to him.
It's part of being able to add jiggle room into your price for unforseen things that always come up.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org