Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 20, 1999 10:48am | #1

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   Todd, have you considered using trim head screws?

   Geoff

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   Guest_ | Jul 20, 1999 03:30pm | #2

   *I think Geoff is onto something here. McFeely's makes screws just for that purpose. You can get them at (800) 443-7937 or at http://mcfeelys.com/.

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   Guest_ | Jul 20, 1999 04:21pm | #3

   *Todd,Geoff and Ron are right on. I apply trim over steel all the time. The trim head screws are the way to go. Get the ones with the Robertson heads, I like Grabber brand. You can use a regular pneumatic finishing nailer if you prefer in anything up to about a 20 gauge stud, use nails that would be over size for the job. In this case 3" or 3 1/4" and angle in two shots in opposite directions. The nails tend to curl after passing thru a stud, and hold pretty good. Try it on a piece of scrap mock up and you'll see what I mean. Use some construction adhesive if you like, especially if you go with the nails, but I wouldn't risk getting that messy foam on all that beautiful fir. Good luck.Richard Max

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   Guest_ | Jul 20, 1999 05:43pm | #4

   *Todd we have to deal with this all the time. 99% of the time two nails with construction glue behind the trim will work. Trim screw are used when radius walls are used or when having to pull doors in frames. I'm not a fan of the foams as they seem to want to go every place but where you want them.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 20, 1999 11:58pm | #5

   *Magnets. If you imbed little magnets in the back of the trim every few inches, you don't need to nail, screw or glue it at all. It stays there by itself. This makes repainting easy since the trim can be removed instead of masking. Any modifications or repairs are easy, too.

2. 
   Guest_ | Jul 21, 1999 06:08am | #6

   *I think the problem with trim screws is the length which must be greater than 2 1/2" My trim gun also only shoots 2 1/2" finish nails. As I use steel in much my remodeling, but on a snaller scale, this problem interests me as well. There are nail guns for steel studs, but when I checked, they do not shoot finish nails. I calculated out the labor cost of shooting screws every 2 feet, every 30 seconds at $25.00 per hour and came out around $20,000 in labor assuming no breaks. Would it be possible to shoot a backer board with the guns before the dry wall is applied and they finish nail into that? Would this be cost effective? Dennis

3. 
   Guest_ | Jul 21, 1999 06:42am | #7

   *Mike,Very funny......I think you've got to stay away from the Tavern for a little while.Ed. Williams

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   Guest_ | Jul 21, 1999 06:46am | #8

   *Todd,Shooting the trim on in light gauge steel studs seems to work fine in the jobs we have done in the past. We will add a cant strip behind the crown mouldings and screw that to the wall and then shoot the crown to the backer (cant strip).Ed. Williams

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   Todd_Goertzen | Jul 21, 1999 07:56am | #9

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   Thanks for MOST of the input. Of course using trim head screws is the obvious attachment. The problem is that having to penetrate 1" worth of wainscot, two layers of 5/8" GWB and getting past the RC void into a stud requires a long screw. Not at every attchment but at many of them. They screws that I have found, Hilti, Fastenal, McFeeley's all go to a larger head once you get longer than 2 1/2". This head leaves a hole that I'm concerned about. I agree with the mess the foam adhesives can produce and will not go that route. We will try a mock up using nails, two angled nails, etc. The backer or nailer options could work in some instances but all wood in the walls must be rated due to the type of construction. Also the backer is not accepted in a hotel where sound ratings are required. The scope of the job is such that many attachment methods will need to be used. Thanks again for the useful options.

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   Guest_ | Jul 22, 1999 02:19am | #10

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   What is the 1" wainscot material? Not a sufficient anchor there? I suppose this trim is going to be getting more of a thumping than it would in a private residence, but wouldn't a combo of glue and screw be enough to keep it on?

   Probably missing something, Joe H

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 22, 1999 05:58am | #11

   *Todd,In residential we ask that the builder put 5/8 plywood behind wainscotting or paneling instead of 5/8 sheetrock. It may not be something within your control in a comercial job. I know that most comercial codes call for non-combustible backings.Sorry I couldn't be more help, but our business is mostly residential.Ed. Williams

4. 
   Todd_Goertzen | Jul 23, 1999 07:37am | #12

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   Joe,

   The 1" wainscot is a panel system made up of 1/4" fir plywood with 1x fir top and bottom rails and 1/2" vertical battens. The 1" is top and bottom. You're right, screwing and glueing will be the way we attach this. As I've outlined, we need to use a fairly long finish screw which has a head that leaves a pretty large hole. The filling/plugging of these holes is my main concern and I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas or experience with nailing or just glue. There are alot of differnet conditions in this project - double layers of sheet rock, trimming over hollow metal frames etc... Our guys will use alot of different methods. Any other ideas are appreciated.

5. 
   Todd_Goertzen | Jul 23, 1999 07:37am | #13

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   We are doing a job which requires approx. 34 miles of CVG fir trim in a hotel. All wood is to receive a clear finish. The details are such that we will need to use 2 1/2"+ screws which gets us into screws with large heads. My experiance sez that putty in large holes does not work. Plugging would look OK but take too long. I've heard of pnuematic finish nailers (or nails) for this application but can't find a definative source. Anyone out there have experiance with these? Also, I'm considering using a foam canister type polyurathane adhesive. Any thoughts on that?