Replies

1. 
   DaveMason2 | Mar 04, 2004 09:58pm | #1

   Yes, the v.b. goes on first.

    If you are going to use 1x2 then I would definetly predrill anywhere you attach since furring that small would split if you didn't. Which means using those blue hex headed screws that are designed for concrete( can't think of their name right now).

     If you're like me ,and I know I am.:-) I would use 2x4s flat and nail them with a powder accuated gun myself.

                                                                                            Dave

1. 
   leftisright | Mar 04, 2004 10:39pm | #2

   Called Tapcons :o)

2. 
   kbranch | Mar 04, 2004 11:32pm | #3

   I could go with 2x4s flat. Do I need special nails if I use a framing nail gun?

1. 
   DaveMason2 | Mar 05, 2004 02:12am | #7

   I don't think you can use a framing nailer for that. You could get you a cheap Remington or Masterset nailer that uses the little 22 caliber blanks to shoot a two and a half inch nail w/washer into the 2x and wall. They have them at most hardware stores, I think the gun is only $20, and the charges and nails will run you another $20. I would get the red charges for what you are doing, they have yellows and greens but they aren't as strong.

                                                                                                           Good Luck, Dave

2. 
   jeepn | Mar 05, 2004 12:13am | #4

   I assume the conc. wall in question is your foundation wall? I'm not sure of your climate, but assuming you're considering a rigid insulation between the furring, I'm assuming it is cold. I wouldn't recommend screwin' or shootin' into the concrete to begin with. Depending on the temp. change, the metal fastener will always expand and contract differently than the surrounding concrete. More so when it is closer to grade. Look at a typical poured foundation wall, you will see that more often than not, cracks start at the form tie. You might want to consider the following wall:

   -1/2" G.W.B.

   -6 mil poly V.B.

   -2"x4" stud wall

   -batt insulation

   -6 mil poly. damp proofing

   -1" air space

   -Concrete foundation wall

   This will end up eating up a bit of the room space, but will save you the aggrevation of finding and fixing cracks and leaks in the concrete wall later on.

   As an added bonus, you can rough in electrical into the wall without the use of special boxes. 

3. 
   RalphWicklund | Mar 05, 2004 12:36am | #5

   If you're not worried about the expansion/contraction differentials between the fasteners and the block wall then after hanging the VB you could stand up full sheets of polyiso rigid insulation, tape the seams if you want and then with your framing nailer shoot the 1x2 or 1x3 furring on over the board with the special case hardened nails made specifically for that purpose. The airspace between the furring will add to the insulaton value. Without looking it up I think it's about R-2, on top of the value of whatever thickness of board you use.

   Measure for your shots and hit the joints or you will blow out the cells of the block. Only need about 3/4" penetration for super holding power. My last case (5,000 count) of 2 1/4" nails cost about $112. + tax.

4. 
   Piffin | Mar 05, 2004 01:19am | #6

   I forget the name of the company and product, but one of the foam insulation outfits make s a foam panel tha tis a couple inches thick and has furring strips milded into it. All you need to do is foam glue the panel to the concrete bloick wall and secure it with a couple of Tapcons or cut nails. Then you screw the SR right to the furring strips..

   You end up with no thermal bridging, it is easy to install, and the foam is a VB.

    

    

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   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Mar 05, 2004 02:27am | #8

   i'm with you..... furring to block ?

   we always used cut nails for that... with a  4 lb. hammer... like ralph said... try for the joints... better hold and less spallingMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Mar 05, 2004 02:43am | #9

   A third,or is it fourth, vote for low teck....cut nails in the joints. Cost effective, and I can get them in with a 28 oz estwing.

   Dave

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Mar 05, 2004 02:47am | #10

   hell , i can get them in with a 12 oz. Plumb.... but a little "mass to the #### " never hurt nothinMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Sphere | Mar 05, 2004 03:21am | #13

   2d cuts don't count...the azz mazz does help probly...think a palm nailer would work?...

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2. 
   DaveRicheson | Mar 05, 2004 11:48pm | #16

   Actually I've dropped back to a 22 oz. estwing. The 4 lb. shop hammer is to hard on the old elbow.

   Ralph, I don't think my old hitachi coil framing nailer would work for this application. I have seen the adds for the newer high pressure nailers... is that what you are using?

   I think I am only two years younger than Mike, so teach this old dog a new trick!

   Dave

3. 
   RalphWicklund | Mar 06, 2004 03:28am | #19

   I use the PC FR350 stick nailer. Regular pressure.

   If you are just going to shoot 3/4" furring to the block you need the 1 1/2 case hardened nail. The nailer will easily sink a nail 3/4" to 1"+ into the wall (joints) but if you use the 2 1/4" nails your hand and the nailer will bounce back a good 2 feet from the kickback and then you'll have to finish by hand for about half the nails.

   Never brace your elbow against your knee when shooting low. It's easy to use that crutch when the gun gets heavier as the day goes on but you'll get a jammed wrist that'll take weeks to mend. btdt.

4. 
   DaveRicheson | Mar 06, 2004 07:41am | #20

   Thanks, Ralph. I'll have to see about the shortest nail the old hitachi will handle. Maybe the excuse I need to upgrade to a newer nailer.

   Dave

5. 
   billyg | Mar 10, 2004 04:14pm | #21

   I would put the foamboard on the walls using PL300 or another adhesive and get a continuous vapor barrier and insulation layer.  Then build your walls just inside the foamboard using 2x3 or 2x4 framing.  This gives you the benefit of excellent insulation and moisture control, plumb walls, space for 'lectric boxes, and no holes in your blocks.

   See http://www.buildingscience.com/ 

   Billy

   Edited 3/10/2004 8:16:28 AM ET by Billy

2. 
   Sphere | Mar 05, 2004 02:48am | #11

   With ya too...cut nails an a 28 estwing. wore one out on them. no more waffle...GOGGLES A MUST.

   And we all know not to hit that last hit..<G> an ya can't bend and steer a cut nail.

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   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations. 

1. 
   RalphWicklund | Mar 05, 2004 03:21am | #12

   Darn!

   I didn't know you guys were still in the dark ages.

   I will unroll an air hose for one length of baseboard.

   My arm will still drive 16's all day (well, most of the day) and cut nails, too. But, WHY????

   Have you ever furred the whole inside of a CMU building? By hand??

   It's not fun any more. And, time is money. More money than the cost of a $112 case of nails.

   And besides, I'm older than most of you. Except maybe Mike Smith, the acknowledged inventor of dirt.

2. 
   xMikeSmith | Mar 05, 2004 03:25am | #14

   ralph... i doan wanna hear none of your namby-pamby florida ways....

   'sides... i bet i've worked on at least two block buildings ... ok... maybe 5..

    they don't exactly grow on trees up here , now , do they ?Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

2. 
   gdavis62 | Mar 05, 2004 03:32am | #15

   And Dow makes a foamboard product with a formed dado for a standard furring strip.  With that you get a furred wall for sheetrock fastening, and the benefit of foamboard in the entire cavity.

   It is called Wallmate, and is available in 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses.  Sheets are 24x96, so it puts your furring strips on 24" centers.

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   Edited 3/4/2004 9:33 pm ET by Mr. Micro

5. 
   1coolcall | Mar 06, 2004 02:46am | #17

   Nobody has said anything about using liqid nail, as a DIYer, I have been glueing up 2x2s and then a couple of powder actuated nails (yellow 22s into concrete, very old concrete) to keep it all in place until the glue drys, works well if you can only work on a project for a couple hour, a couple of nights a week,  glues hard by the time I get the the next stage.  YMMV.

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 06, 2004 02:55am | #18

   That's fine, as long as you work slow enuf to not get any on the foam and disolve it. Gotta use PL 300 or a urethene foam around foam panels. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!