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Back priming cedar bevel siding

prairiescl | Posted in General Discussion on October 30, 2009 05:13am

The siding I have is from Mary’s River – one side smooth, the other rough. I’ll put the smooth side out. Priming the rough side is a big drag because it is rough, take a lot of work to cover it well and uses a lot of paint. Should I try to return what I have and try to find siding with both sides smooth?

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Replies

  1. DanH | Oct 30, 2009 05:23am | #1

    You are using a roller, aren't you?

    A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter
    1. prairiescl | Oct 30, 2009 05:37am | #2

      No, a brush. Just a prejudice because I think it works it into the surface better.

  2. ptp | Oct 30, 2009 06:14am | #3

    I've never seen new siding with a surfaced back side. I'd recommend a thick nap roller to really slop the primer on there. You can back brush it to work it into the wood. Or you could spray it on and back brush it. Even with the time to clean up the sprayer it would probably be faster or at least less aggravating.

    1. prairiescl | Oct 30, 2009 06:32am | #4

      Thanks, I'll give that a try.

      1. User avater
        BarryE | Oct 30, 2009 04:51pm | #6

        It's definitely NOT a waste of time to backprime the cedar siding. Unless you like the look of extractive bleeding. It's highly recommended by every cedar siding association known to man. :)what are you using for primer? Unless you have a big open area an airless can be overkill by the time you protect everything around it. A roller will work just fine..if your really worried follow up with the brush, but not necessary. If you are priming the front also I then roll and backbrush

        Barry E-Remodeler

         

        1. prairiescl | Oct 30, 2009 05:15pm | #7

          I'm using Benjamin Moore Fresh Start. I'll prime the front as well.Should I put a finish coat on the bottom edge of the back back & the top part of the front where they overlap? I would guess that water could wick up between clapboards at that point, so I am guessing a topcoat will protect it better than just primer.It's raining today, so I am painting in the garage, putting the boards to dry on a rack I made to store the stuff before it goes up.

          1. User avater
            BarryE | Oct 30, 2009 05:23pm | #8

            oil or acrylic?I usually prime, install and 2 coat finish and have had no problems. Once or twice I have primed, 1 finish coat on the front, install and 2nd coat...depends on my time constraintsIf I were going to finish coat the edge where it laps I would do the whole side so there are no lap marksSounds like you have it under control

            Barry E-Remodeler

             

          2. prairiescl | Oct 30, 2009 05:46pm | #9

            Acrylic.I see what you mean about the lap marks by putting a finish coat on the top edge of the front where they lap, so maybe I'll do one finish coat on all of the front prior to install. I'm doing a rain-screen install. Do the furring strips need to be primed, or just covered with Tyvek? Are lathe strips good for this? I was going to use 1/4" exterior grade plywood, but I can't find it around here anymore.

          3. User avater
            Jeff_Clarke | Oct 31, 2009 02:50pm | #21

            The proper primer for this application is a high-hiding alkyd - I always specify Cabot Problem Solver alkyd (oil) primer.   They even have a quick dry formula now.  I suspect you will have LOTS of problems using acrylic primer on cedar (bleeding).

            This is right from the product description for B-M Acrylic All-Purpose Primer:

            Product Description

            A premium quality, 100% acrylic interior and exterior primer formulated for sealing and suppressing most bleeding type stains: including crayon, graffiti, grease marks, water stains; cedar and redwood bleed; asphalt, creosote, rust and smoke. In cases of severe bleeding, a solvent based primer should be used to prevent stains from reappearing. Fresh Start All Purpose 100% Acrylic Primer combines many of the qualities desired in a primer: high hiding, excellent adhesion (even over chalky surfaces), blister resistance, quick dry, spatterproof and minimal odor with excellent flow and leveling.

            Cedar substrate is a case of potentially 'severe' extractive bleeding and even B-M says 'use a solvent primer' ie Alkyd.

            Also, you can get pre-priming (factory priming) on siding - saves a lot of $ and you can usually specify the product.

             

            Jeff

            Edited 10/31/2009 7:55 am ET by Jeff_Clarke

          4. User avater
            BarryE | Oct 31, 2009 03:52pm | #23

            As I mentioned above, best to use a long oil. Not a quick dry oil. would rather use a latex than fast dry oil. the long oil dries slower of course, which allows it time to soak into the wood pores and binds much better than the fast dry oilsand Cabots? I guess if that's all you can get. <G>

            Barry E-Remodeler

             

          5. prairiescl | Oct 31, 2009 08:22pm | #24

            I'll get some B-M oil-based primer. I have the corner trim 1x4s and a pair of 14' bevels done with the acrylic. Should I over-coat the boards covered with the acrylic primer? I've heard oil over acrylic is a no-no, though I don't know what the result is. I could use the acrylic-primed bevels as-is at the top where they will see little water.

          6. Piffin | Nov 01, 2009 02:33am | #29

            Oil ove latex not good - don't know about acriylic 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          7. DonCanDo | Nov 01, 2009 02:56pm | #34

            The word "latex" is used very generically.  At least around here.  It refers to any water-based paints paints including acrylics.

            I have also heard oil over "latex" is not a good idea, but I don't think it really applies to primers.  In this case, I would use an oil primer right over the acrylic primer.

            And to the OP, since you mentioned that your're using Benjamin Moore, I assume you're planning on their Fresh Start Penetrating Alkyd Primer 100.  Here's a similar product that I've used and have been very happy with: http://www.muralo.net/products/exterior_primers_X200.php  I don't know if Muralo products are available in your area.

          8. User avater
            BarryE | Nov 01, 2009 05:22pm | #36

            Just don't use the fast dry oil.The advantage of a long oil primer is the ability to soak into the wood and the resulting binding power. I don't see the advantage of using the oil primer over the latex. The advantage is gone..and could cause problems down the road.Use oil primer going forward and if worried about the latex primer put a 2nd coat of latex primer over the 1st coat and follow your suggestion of where to place this wood.The reason for not using oil over latex is that especially in the outer coats it can cause alligatoring or checking. You may get away with it in the primer coats, but not worth the risk of future problems IMO.Just like the wood temps cause paint to contract and expand. The reason to use acrylics as the top coats is the elasticity of the resins. This is why it is preferable for the primer coat to be harder than the outer coats. Unless given plenty of time to dry the latex primer will be softer than the oil primer. Plenty of time would be more than a few hours or days.The longer the primer is exposed to air, it oxidizes and hardens. Up to a point this makes the best base coat for the acrylic topcoats. I would 2nd coat the latex primer with a 2nd coat of latex primer, use it in the most protected places and continue with the oil primer on new wood.

            Barry E-Remodeler

             

          9. DonCanDo | Oct 30, 2009 07:46pm | #11

            You're really better off with an oil-based primer front and back.  It adheres better and provides a better moisture barrier.  And while I agree that back-brushing after rollering is usually a good idea, I don't think it's necessary on the back of the clapboards.  Just roller.

            Also, if you use oil, the unexposed part of the siding is protected well enough that I don't think it's necessary to paint it before installing the next course.  You should, however, paint the bottom edge.

          10. User avater
            BarryE | Oct 30, 2009 07:54pm | #12

            um...ok?

            Barry E-Remodeler

             

          11. DonCanDo | Oct 30, 2009 08:04pm | #13

            Oops, looks like I was trying to channel through you to the OP.

          12. User avater
            BarryE | Oct 30, 2009 08:08pm | #14

            :)I agree with you on the oil. long oil not the fast dry stuff. But it looks like the OP is well under way, so I figure that the latex will do a better job than none.

            Barry E-Remodeler

             

      2. runnerguy | Oct 30, 2009 06:35pm | #10

        I backprimed 8" lap rough cedar siding using a thick roller years ago and it worked great. Spread out all the pieces on scrap 2X's, attached a long handle to the roller and walked around and did it. Very easy and quick.

        Runnerguy

  3. andybuildz | Oct 30, 2009 04:33pm | #5

    personally I think it's a waste of time on clapboards.

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    1. Piffin | Oct 30, 2009 09:58pm | #16

      That one is definitely wrong 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. bobtim | Oct 31, 2009 01:16am | #17

        I with you on that! I was always taught that all 6 sides get primer or at least a dab a paint on the cuts.

         

        That being said, I ran into a guy who was prepainting his claps on the exposed side only. I asked him why? He said there was some controversy as to back priming and his research led him to believe front only painting was the best approach. I have heard of no "controversy" in any manner, have you?  Unfortunatly I was in a hurry so I didn't have time for a good discussion with him.

        I will be keeping an eye on the house.

        1. Piffin | Oct 31, 2009 02:00pm | #18

          Hundreds of houses have continual paint peeling problems because of moisture moving thru the claps from back side, And oil based back primer stops this, latex slows it.
          Additionally this job is dedar. The tannins in cedar bleed and stain a paint job more than other woods. goog oil primer can seal and stop that from happening as well.
          Finally, hot sun on siding can make it curl, depending on how much moisture it has on board. The both sides poil primer stabilizes this. I can't think of any good reason for not prepriming clapboards 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. IronHelix | Oct 31, 2009 02:23pm | #19

            And the sad point in this discussion is that oil/VOC ladened paint products are gradually being phased out of product manufacturers inventory to satisfy environmental standards.There are those specific applications that cry our for oil based products and our selection of good products becomes smaller with time...........Iron Helix

          2. Piffin | Oct 31, 2009 02:49pm | #20

            My painter let on how he gets oil based primer still.Ben moore's super spec I think s the primer, i'd have to check a can again or call him - comes in either latex or oil. He lets on that he has metal to prime and needs the oil based. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  4. Piffin | Oct 30, 2009 09:57pm | #15

    a roller makes it easy work and I doubt you will find cedar smooth all sides

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  5. edwardh1 | Oct 31, 2009 02:55pm | #22

    hardie plank has smooth sides.
    we all need to stop using wood siding.

    1. Svenny | Oct 31, 2009 11:37pm | #27

      "we all need to stop using wood siding."Couldn't disagree with you more.John Svenson, builder,  remodeler,  NE Ohio

      1. User avater
        Jeff_Clarke | Nov 01, 2009 12:01am | #28

        Me too!   Easiest thing to repair.

      2. Piffin | Nov 01, 2009 02:45am | #30

        It's all part of hope and change.change to siding that'll give you silicosis and hope for the best under the natl health care package. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. Svenny | Nov 01, 2009 02:51am | #31

          I sure hope that changes!John Svenson, builder,  remodeler,  NE Ohio

          1. Piffin | Nov 01, 2009 02:53am | #32

            such a quick wit! 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        2. DanH | Nov 01, 2009 02:58am | #33

          The more I listen to you guys bicker over siding, the more I'm glad that I have Masonite on this house.
          A strong nation, like a strong person, can afford to be gentle, firm, thoughtful, and restrained. It can afford to extend a helping hand to others. It's a weak nation, like a weak person, that must behave with bluster and boasting and rashness and other signs of insecurity. --Jimmy Carter

          1. Piffin | Nov 04, 2009 09:36am | #37

            Hey, You're the chief bickerist around here 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      3. edwardh1 | Nov 01, 2009 05:18pm | #35

        and repair and repair and repair and repair

  6. RedfordHenry | Oct 31, 2009 10:45pm | #25

    Return it all and get buy it pre-primed! You'll be installing it on Monday, and not worrying about the best way to prime the backside.

    1. Geoffrey | Oct 31, 2009 11:29pm | #26

       

      Just be sure to specify clear grade vs. Finger-jointed (which most pre-primed is)when ordering

      Also, you can get around the Low VOC (non-oil based paint) by purchasing in  bulk....5gal. or larger, and claim it's for commercial use, which is still allowed.

           Geoff

       

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