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What are some feelings regarding hooking up elec receptacles. Either pushing the wire in the back or wrapping around the screws. I like the ease of just pushing in the wire but the screw seems to be a longer and safer hold. I’ve had the wire pop out of the back a few times.
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Replies
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I'm not an electrician, but a remodeling contractor that does a majority of my electric myself,in an area where permits are required. When in trade school a rep from a fixture manufacturer came in and gave a talk. They recommended always using the screws.The theory is that electric pulses cause the leads to vibrate constantly.The plug ins on the back are friction fit ,and the vibrations can loosen this over time.They also stated the vibrations could possibly(they stressed unlikely)weaken the metal contacts that are providing the friction fit.I always take the few extras seconds to bend and screw.I have heard that there are locations where local codes do not allow back wiring.I don't think any electrician is that short on time to take the quick way out, I just don't see the point of not using the screws.Jeff.
*Wow, right answer but wildest reason I've ever heard. Electricity does not pulse in a way that causes wires to vibrate, atleast not in house type wiring. What does cause push-ins to loosen is repeated movement of whatever is pushed into the receptacle. This is often seen in outlets behind headboards, where the plug gets bumped a lot. Any way, you are right that screws are the way to go.
*The newest receptacles, at least the 20 ampers I bought (commercial), have lugs just like GFCI's have and I think real electricians are saying thats the way to go.
*I agree with the others.A pair of linemans pliers a Phillips and a few seconds and you're done.The electrician at Ft. Leonardwood that taught us also instructed us to wrap the side posts and completely around the recepticle or switch with 2 wraps of good quality electrical tape.His reason was that some future moron would try to work on the outlet without turning off the power. He said they turn out those type of people every two weeks at Ft. Benning. I think he said their names were Infantrymen.
*Hey there SSG - Infantrymen don't spend too much time screwing with electricity, because they are too busy way out in front of the engineers making the world safe for democracy. They have to secure the forward areas to make sure some future moron doesn't try to work there without checking to make sure it's clear first.But then again, I could be wrong.
*I disagree that house wiring doesn't vibarte. You should hear my electical panel buzz from my electronic dimmers. I do agree that this is not the main reason for not using the push-ins on the back of cheap outlets. The push-ins use a metal spring to make contact with the wire. Over time the metal "creeps" reducing the spring tension on the the wire. This in turn causes the connection to increase in resistance. This in turn causes heat to be generated from the increase in resisatnce. This in turn causes the spring to loose tension. And so on and so on. The Author of "Wiring a House" by Taunton says he went to a house where a recepticle using the push-ins was hot (temperature) with nothing plugged in. However, there are good outlets that you can backwire. A good quality outlet (spec grade) that has side and back wire options are great. They do not use spring tension but the same system used on breakers. There is a metal plate that squishes the wire when you tighten the screw. I used these exclusively in my house. They are about $5 a piece, but how much is your families saftey worth. I used a Hubbel outlet, but most manufacturers make a model also. Pass and Symore has a version that is a little more cost effective than the Hubbel.I know a family that lost their son in a house fire. A recepticle outside their sons bedroom caught the house on fire. They couldn't get into his room to save him. Since I did my own wiring and I have a 6 month old daughter the $5 is a small price to pay. I
*Bad joke David,A lot of people here are vets, and quite a few were infantrymen. We forgive ya though. Anyway, In my area, back wiring is against code. Nothing will fail an inspection faster than to back wire an outlet or switch. Electrical tape over the wire nuts or screws is also a no no. This will also fail inspection here.I wouldn't back wire even if allowed. I have seen outlets that lost power because the metal tab that has the spring tension on it melted when hit with a power surge. If some of these hadn't have melted, they surely would have overheated, or possibly arced. Bad scenario anyway you look at it.But then again, I could be wrong...James DuHamel
*James, Didn't mean to offend. I not only a a veteran but still an active member. I deeply respect those who have served before me. In todays Army there is a friendly rivalry amongst not only other branches but between different career fields. The Combat Arms fields have the greatest rivalries. As a veteran you would be happy to see us today. Because of the downsizing we, most servicemen, have come to realize the jobs we are asked to do cannot be done alone. It takes all of us. I plan on venturing into the Tavern with this because that seems a better place.As for the electrical tape why will this fail? Does the inspector want to see that the connections are correct? I was always taught that by using tape over bare wire added a measure of safety.
*i The Author of "Wiring a House" by Taunton says he went to a house where a recepticle using the push-ins was hot (temperature) with nothing plugged in. Perhaps the outlet was warm, but not from a bad connection.If nothing was plugged in and there was no current being drawn, the outlet won't heat up from the electric. No matter haw badly an outlet is wired, no matter how faulty the connections are, without a current, nothing will happen.No I realize that a catastrophic failure like a short or a broken wire could certainly heat a an outlet or even start a fire but it sounds like the author is claiming that an outlet in good condition with bad connections will heat up when not in use. I doubt it.Back to the topic: the back wire connectors are UL listd and therefore tested and approved. I believe they are okay to use, especially if wired properly in a fire proof electrical box that is also approved. That said, I always use the screw terminals. You can't be too safe.
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Another reason for not back fastening.I do alot of rehab
work for the county that usually requires receptacle
replacment. More often than not the wires that are pushed
in the back don't have enough slack to twist the recptacle
around enough to get them out,then you have to cut the
wires shorter and add to them.Think about replacment also
when considering your options.
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Just goes to show you that just because something's made that way and available for purchase, doesn't mean it meets national or local code. Just as the UL mark doesn't assure code, either.
As to Engineers, back when I was in OCS at Ft. Belvoir, I was asked if I preferred to be Engineer or Transportation. I chose the latter, reasoning that I'd rather deliver to the club than build it.
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Ryan, Better think about your response! Just because there was nothing plugged into that particular outlet doesn't mean it wasn't feeding through that outlet to something downstream. In fact, that is really where the problem lies. Most outlets (unfortunately) are used as feed through outlets to other outlets on the same circuit. The cumulative effect of building up a maximum load on an outlet that is backwired can very easily heat the receptacle and cause problems with those bad connections. The new electrical code does not permit backwiring 20 amp circuits, but I think they should ban them on all circuits. The commercial type receptacles with the screw connectors on the back are a totally different deal.
*
I stand corrected.
*Household current can and will pulse and vibrate while completing the circut. Electricity can also create magnetic fields, and jump the expected path to the most direct ground.Treating electrical circuts and devices like they will always perform in a perfect world is asking for trouble.Examples of too much faith would be the added workshop outlet I found in a customers home with the metal box on the ceiling joists touching the cold water line going out to the hose bib, or the dishwasher install I looked at where the Electrician shut off the garbage disposal(live) switch at the counter, unhook the disposal wiring and wrap it around the water lines to keep it out of the way. All she had to do was be doing the dishes and forget and flick the switch!Jeff.
*No offense taken, David.As an active member of our amred forces, I salute you, and thank you for your service. Serving in the armed forces is a sacrifice that does not go unnoticed by us, nor will it ever be forgotten.I personally was in the Navy, so the infantry remarks don't bother me at all. It just might offend some of the vets here, but that is speculation on my part.Code here will not allow any connections to be covered with tape because they want to see the connection, be sure it is correct, and be able to tell if a connection has come loose. I have run into inspectors who will fail an inspection if less than 6" of wire is hanging out of the box. I learned to leave about a foot, so they can't say anything. Sure makes the other electricians on site happy to have some working room too. James DuHamel
*If you build it sir then you get to be the first to drink in it. This usually ensures the best seat as well. That would be the one by the Tap. Wouldn't want the beer to warm up on the slide down the bar.Head over to the tavern I have a new post.
*The Leviton backwire/screw outlets are about $2. Spring backwire bad, but obviously enough electricians love it that they keep making them.
*Just my 2 cents...Never use the push-in spring connectors - Don't be lazy, use the screws and make the connections tight.Never wire the receptacle in series. Wire nut your pass-thru connections with one set of pigtails to the receptacle. Never cut your leads short. Your work will be easier and any future work will be easier and your thoughtfulness appreciated.Spend a few more cents on a better receptacle. Your client (or your wife) will be upset when the vacuum cleaner plug keeps falling out of the outlet or losing contact.And, if you can, try to leave a courtesy loop when stapling your wire near the box, just in case.Ralph
*Ralph, I was all set for MY 2 cents worth till you stopped me dead in my tracks.My experience: As a (perhaps) typical DIYer, I've always "backwired," and never, ever had a problem, at least in the average 5-6-8 years occupancy of houses where I've backwired. The house I'm in now, built in '72, had all its outlets backwired. I changed them all from dirty ivory to white. Been here 6 years, no problems.BUT, BUT, BUT.........I think everything you said makes absolute sense. Even if, statistically, one is PROBABLY not going to have a problem with backwiring, why take the chance? And, while one is at it, why not look ahead to the next guy, er, person? Hell, the few more minutes spent are only going to be subtracted from some dumbass thing on TV.
*Bravo, Ralph! I totally agree. The guy who remodels gets to learn the value of courtesy in construction. I, too, always wirenut my passthroughs and run pigtails to the receptacle. That in combination with taping around the device helps to reduce the negative impact of DIY errors down the road. Another courtesy move is to provide voluminous boxes so you can give the people long leads, somewhere to fold 'em, and enough space to keep it all nice and cool.I think the inspector who disallows tape is only concerned that it may be concealing poor workmanship. The spring backwires fail, often within 20 years. Screws last as long as house wiring has been around. Newer is not always better.Bill
*Jim, bill, Ralph, I agree 100%. After the drywall is up, it is a lot easier to bring out the receptacle pigtails and wire the receptacle with just three wires than if I had to connect everything to the connector. I believe this offsets some if not all the labor doing the splices. As as you-all have said, it is a better safer job.
*According to NEC, a circuit that's fed thru a receptacle doesn't pass code. Pigtailing is required. Electrical tape is permitted over solder joints. I'm probably the only guy nuts enough to solder instead of using wire nuts, but it does produce a stronger and lower resistance joint. The drill is three layers of 3M type 33: out and back, fold over the tip, and out again.As for screws vs. backwire, absolutely the screws put more pounds per square inch on more square inches of wire. That means less resistance and cooler operation.-- J.S.
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John,
You're right, you are nuts. I'd hazard a guess that you are not an electrician by trade...And I'm suprised that you're on-line, and not communicating by carrier pigeon.
Any soldered splice must derive its physical strength from some element OTHER THAN the solder (which under overload conditions may melt out). I've got some books on electrical wiring from 1900-1920--the variety of splices was amazing. The splicing techniques were used with knob-and tube wiring, where splices were made in the open (not inside boxes). Most of the splice configurations are straight line and look like they will not fit into a conventional box if properly done.
I'm convinced that if you pre-twist a pigtail splice and then spin on a wire nut, or use a wire nut driver (3M) and a small Makita, you get a solid electrical connection that's plenty strong. And if need be, it can be broken open for modification or troubleshooting. The 3M scotchloc wire nut, with a live spring, steel oversleeve, and non-flammable plastic insulation, can't be beat. Pricey though and hard to get.
What does your local AHJ say about your soldered and taped joints?
If soldering works for you, great. Best of luck.
*
John,
I also solder when making joints. I strip equal lengths and clamp the ends in a pair of vice grips. Then I secure the wires together at the end of the insulstion and spin the vice grips. The result is a tight pigtail. Then I heat the tip of the pigtail with a small propane torch and apply rosin core solder just below the insulation. When the solder runs in I pull the flame away and wait to cool. Then I trim to length, file off burrs as necessary, and put on a wire nut. This takes a few minutes but I feel more secure doing it this way. The more wires in a joint the more I like to solder. I only wire for myself. This is certainly not a production enhancing technique and if I wired for a living I would just use wire nuts.
The only recepticles I will backwire are GFIs. Some models have backwire provisions that are secured by tightening the screw. You can free some backwired recepticles by inserting a small screwdriver in the slot adjacent to the wire hole. This releaves the spring pressure and the wires will come right out. Usefull when you don't have much wire in the box and every inch counts.
*Very interesting, Steve. The last time I did an owner builder house (1971) the inspector told me to tape the solder joints, not put wire nuts over them. I don't know why.-- J.S.
*Careful -- solder itself is pretty high resistance. Copper-to-copper contact is what counts.Maybe crimping would be a little easier? Anyway, there are nice backwire plug receptacles, using screw pressure.
*Cap, can you fill in a detail for a carpenter?What do you mean, pre-twist a pigtail splice?blue
*Twisting the copper wires around each other clockwise first, rather than leaving them separate or hoping the wire nut will do it. Makes for a better splice -- more copper-to-copper contact ... and if you accidentally take the nut off a hot circuit, the wires stay together.The pigtail is a lone wire coming off a splice to the receptacle -- the receptacle is just on a "spur" off the main highway, unlike feeding current for other devices downstream ("through traffic") across the connection points on the receptacle.
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blue eyed devil,
got the idea on a pigtail? Three wires coming together (power in, power out, and a tap, or pigtail, for the outlet). An inch of insulation stripped off each conductor, twist clockwise (looking at the stripped ends, wires going away from you). Nip off end to leave about 5/8 inch of bare copper. Spin on wirenut. Now there's a splice! The wire nut manufacturers all say that you don't need to pre-twist. If you use a wire nut driver (3M), and a cordless drill or screwdriver, you don't, and you get a very solid splice.
On the other hand, I've fixed a lot of dead outlets and fixtures where the installer didn't pretwist and didn't spin the 'nut on well enough to grab the conductors. I just made up all the boxes on a 4,000 sf residence, and my thumbs woulda been bleeding if I hadn't used the power driver.
John, the inspector doesn't want you to wire-nut the soldered joint because the wire nut isn't listed (by UL) for that use. That means it hasn't been tested in that application. The spring in the higher quality nuts is a "live" spring, designed to expand as the nut is spun on, and clamp the wires together.
A soldered joint isn't going to work with the spring (and vice-versa).
*
Now, I suppose the installer wraps the pigtail wire around her finger to stuff it in the box -- so it looks like a pigtail, no?
*
andrew d--
Well, yes...sometimes, sort of.
No kiddin'--in boxes with 3-way switches, the simplest way to wire 'em is: power into one box, a 3 conductor (w/ground) cable run to the other switch box, and power out of there to the fixture.
You often have one or two other switches in the same box (picture head-of-hallway switch box--three-way for hall lites, a three-way for dining room, maybe another three-way for kitchen). How do you designate which wires are the travellers, and which is the common? That's a mess of wires to keep straight. Labels are a pain to make. And the tapers and texture guys seem to enjoy putting as much crap as possible into the electrical boxes, so labels often are worthless anyway.
A common convention in these parts is to spiral each pair of black & red travellers together loosely, and take the black wire to the common (either the pwr in, the supply to the fixture) and wrap it corkscrew-like (or pigtail-like) around the associated travellers. Quick and easy. Iffn you know da secrat code.
Also, it's real common to do just a single tight loop on the switched hot in switch boxes when you also have power heading out to something other than the fixture.
There are some neat wire tracing tools out there, but time is $$....
*
Cap, thanks for the procedure detail about the pre-twist. That was precisely what I wanted to know. If I had done it without asking, I would have stripped only 5/8" and twisted, leaving the chewed up ends to be inserted into the nut.
I will be heading to the orange box in search of a nut driver.
Also thanks for the heads up on the pigtail explanation even though I already understood abut it.
Now, out to the barn to re-twist all my pigtails!
blue
*Tell me if you find one there (nutdriver) -- I haven't even asked. I hate asking for help there, except for the rare sentient worker who knows the trade.I use lineman's pliers inline with the nut, not from the side, to twist the nut tight. Pretty easy to do while the other hand holds the splice, but you have to be careful not to overtighten and break the nut. The wire can also pierce the top of the wire nut if overtightened, esp. where you are just capping off a single wire, making for an electrifying experience (that's what got me the other day -- 1 mm of hot copper poking out the top of the nut in a poorly-lit room). I prefer to leave capped wires unstripped until they are needed.
*I dread figuring out other people's work!
*
getting back to the original question back wire or side wire..... a receptical can not be rated for 20 maps if back wired, the most it can be rated for is 15 maps or #14awg wire, ever tried to stuff #12awg into the rear of a new receptical? you can't, thus if you require a 20 amp circuit you must side wire, which should answer the question of quality of side wire s. back wire
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What are some feelings regarding hooking up elec receptacles. Either pushing the wire in the back or wrapping around the screws. I like the ease of just pushing in the wire but the screw seems to be a longer and safer hold. I've had the wire pop out of the back a few times.