We are in the process of remodeling and adding an addition to my DD’s home. The remodel included gutting two bedrooms and a bath and constructing a nursery, utility room, and guest bath. We ordered a beautiful blue glass mosaic tile for the tub/shower area of the bath, and ordered a “Cascade White” tile for the floor (using the same tile in the utility room). The tiler picked up the tile from the dealer (it had all been special ordered from DalTile) and came back to the house to lay it. My DD and SIL were not there when he arrived, so he began putting the floor tile down. When they returned, he had laid about 50-60% of the floor, and it was a rosy beige! DD called the dealer, who checked the tile in the showroom, said it was a pure white, and told DD that it must just be the light in the remodeled area (we haven’t installed lighting in there yet, so only had natural light coming in, plus it’s a log home, so there was a lot of wood to pick up color from.) The tiler finished the floor.
I arrived the following day and the floor was definitely beige to me, although I checked the boxes and they were all labeled Cascade White. Took one piece of the tile back to the dealer, and sure enough, it was “Prairie Beige” – the boxes had all been mislabeled. Now, DalTile says that if the tile hadn’t been laid, they would gladly exchange it, but once it’s laid, we accept it. I disagree…the tiler had no idea what the true color of the tile should have been; he relied on the label on the boxes, and the label showed the color that we actually ordered.
Has this ever happened to any of you? Our tiler said he had never gotten mislabeled tile before. My position is that we did not change our mind once the tile was laid, that we trusted the dealer (who said it was just bad light) and both the dealer and all of us trusted DalTile to label the boxes properly. I think they should provide us with the tile we ordered and pay to have it laid. Am I being unreasonable? Would really appreciate any feedback or experience you might have in this area. TIA.
Insist on the real MadMom – accept no substitutes!
Replies
Don't accept the dealer's reply. If he won't go to bat for you, go over his head directly to the tile company. If you paid with a credit card, you are in luck(at least for the amount of purchase). You can have the credit card company hold payment to the vender until they,(the credit card company) investigates the matter. Report the dealer to the BBB, go through their arbitration process.Worst case scenario is small claims court. In MHO you have a legitimate claim, in the eyes of any impartial mediator.
John
Edited 5/20/2002 5:42:53 PM ET by Svenny
Thanks, John...I appreciate the support. Actually, the dealer, IMO, was not at fault. They assumed (as our tiler did, and we did) that the tile was what we had ordered, since it came in labeled with the color we had requested. As the salesperson told us, they don't go through every box of tile they receive and open them to make sure they haven't been mislabeled. And, they are going to bat for us with DalTile. So, I can't feel inclined toward reporting them to the BBB. Now DalTile is another story - they are a big company, should have better quality control than this, and they should, IMO, make it right. As I told the dealer, if we had ordered a color, then, once it was installed, we decided we didn't like it, that would be one thing...in this case, we got something that looks like the devil with the blue glass mosaic tile (which we spent a bloody fortune on, BTW), and it wasn't what we ordered.
To top it all off, poor DD is very pregnant (her due date was May 8) and she is not in any mood for all of this...ahh, life does get interesting! I really posted here to see if I was just way out of line in expecting them to make this right; if they don't agree, guess we will see them in small claims court, but I'm hoping they'll do the honorable thing and fix this without our having to go through all that.Insist on the real MadMom - accept no substitutes!
What kind of Mad Mom are you? Get screaming!! Accept no BS. Somebody screwed up, sounds like more than one somebody screwed up.
If you scream loud enuff and long enuff, Dal will eat it. Whether or not anyone else will share in the meal is debatable.
Wind it up Mad Mom, start screeching. Joe H
Thanks, Joe...I don't normally need any encouragement to scream, but just thought I would see what the pros thought about this. The dealer has been extremely apologetic, etc., etc. - offered to make it up to us on the next tile we order (a significant amount of slate for the master bath), which I'll certainly take her up on, BUT I want DalTile to do the right thing. When the dealer said they would decide what they were going to do, I replied that there was no decision to be made...we want the right tile, and we want our installer (not some monkey they hire for minimum wage) to put it in. Besides, we're not talking a huge amount of money - probably about a grand for the tile and the installation...they can just suck it up and do it, IMO.Insist on the real MadMom - accept no substitutes!
DalTile will tell ya it's yours once it's stuck down.....but who cares. If the tile store has enough pull...they'll have DalTile make it right for you. If not......depending on the size invloved....I'd expect the tile store to make it right. "Legally".....an arguement could be made that the installer shouldn't have laid it.....like the big sign at my tile store says......"inspect for color and quality before accepting"......but seeing of white or rose or beige in a dark warehouse vs true white...would be just about impossible. I know I'd fight it.....someone other than me would be paying to fix it. I'd stick by that as an installer and as the homeowner.
Go up the ladder at DalTile.......they screwed up. Way back when I was selling new cars.......a company rep confirmed my suspicions that the first coupla phone complaints were ignored.......only after your name was on the list a few times did they figure you were serious about not going away! I've found that to be true with most big companies. Have fun....Jeff "That's like hypnotizing chickens........."
Easy answer...SMALL CLAIMS COURT!
Be Well,
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The absolute minimum DalTile should do is supply the correct tile at no charge. Personally I think they should compensate for the labor, too. But that is probably more difficult to get.
Don't let 'em off easy.
Best of luck.
Rich Beckman
A couple years ago we installed a Kohler cast iron tub that was mislabeled. It was supposed to be "Biscuit" or some such color and it was another shade of beige. It took a little wrangling, but Kohler compensated us for the tub, and the cost of ripping it out and installing the correct tub. I would definitely pursue it with DalTile.
We recently helped our plumber cut and install a corian-like shower wall, cut and glued to the wall. It did not match the base which was white, but we just assumed that the base was the same no matter what the wall color. After the walls were complete and the shower doors hung we cut to fit a corner moulding piece. This was a slightly different color than the walls. I knew that for $1000 the moulding would match the walls perfectly and assumed that the moulding was the wrong color. The customers took the moulding to the supplier and found out that it was the correct color and that the walls were wrong. After much negotiating the supplier and the manufacturer agreed to replace the walls and pay for the labor. Of course nothing has actually happened yet and the homeowners are now willing to accept living with the existing situation and not paying for the wall material. Why the company does not accept this is beyond me but I will go back and help rip it out when it comes in two months, two years but probably not in two decades.
The company that gave you the wrong wall color is probably just hoping you'll give up and forget about it. I think that is probably DalTile's approach...if they ignore us, we'll give up. I intend to be like a mad dog with a bone, though...will not give up until some judge slaps a restraining order on me! It would be different if it were going to totally hold us up, but we can finish all the interior painting and trim, install the fixtures in the bath and the appliances in the utility room, then just move them when they finally give up and give us the new tile and pay for installation. We will NOT just live with it. DD spent too much money on the glass mosaic tile to have the floor tile look like crap next to it. We'll just continue to decorate the bath as though the floor were white, and some day, it will be! Thanks to all you guys for your support. That means a lot. I felt morally correct, but it's great to have the backup of people who do this for a living.Insist on the real MadMom - accept no substitutes!
The first thing I would do is go to the tile store. I would talk to the sales person which I think you already did). Next I would talk to the store manager and no response then talk to the owner of the store/corporate customer service. The same time I was doing that I would be contacting dal-tile and talk to there customer service service. Hopefully you saved the reciept(which should have the color you wanted listed on it) and the boxes. take pictures of the floor and even get a statement from the installer. That should do it. But I find communication is the most important thing and ddo it both verbaly and in writting. Maybe as per our conversation on 5/18/02 we agreed ....... Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"
Just got some tile to finish off a bathroom, and every single box is stamped with "Please Inspect These Tiles Before Installing. No Adjustments Will Be Made After They Have Been Set." So if I don't check and install them, or have someone install them, don't I have some responsibility, too?
That said, I'd also fight for a make-good, hoping they cared more about a happy customer than just being right. I had a Basco shower pan ordered in White and delivered in a box that said White, but it was definitely not white. We caught it before installing, and still had to make a fuss to get it replaced. Can't imagine the difficulty if it had already been installed.
This might be farely simple . Usually here , you hire the store to install the tile , and the material is sold for the job , paying them with one check. Now, if this is the case , its easy!!!!1 Tile store makes it right. Who hired the tile setter???????????? Thats the biggest question. If they did then its their fault even if you are in love with them. Doesnt matter.
I pay my lumber yard to cut the sink holes in all my counter tops. They screw up all the time , and they pay . In the future, do it this way. Its their baby. Simply dont pay them . period . The tile company is their enemy at that point , not yours. You didnt buy the tile from them. Dont get your self involved with that.
The best advice is to talk to a lawyer. Most times a letter from them is all thats needed . Easier than going to court. Any way , I think the job is too big for small claims.
Tim Mooney
Madmom,
I can't add anything about getting Daltile to make it right with you other than to say keep fighting and maybe they'll come through.Can I say something about white ceramic floors though? They SUCK. I picked out a really nice cobalt blue tile for our bathroom(white grout) and the saleswoman talked my wife into the white floor tile.They talked like we were picking out a suit and tie, "Oh,the floor color will just pick up the white in the grout so NICELY".I wanted a rosy brown which they said would look HORRIBLE.I gave in to save the peace.A month after it was down my wife realized it shows every eyelash,pubic hair,piece of towel lint,etc.You can wash the floor and a couple of hours later it looks dirty again.Two months later on vacation in Cancun, swimming at the Ritz-Carlton , cobalt blue pool tile with surrounding reddish brown tile.Looked sharp.
Good Luck.
A bit off subject, but my wife's no. 1 criteria in picking tile was "does it show dirt" -- she's one of the best housekeepers you'll ever see, but nothings clean all the time, and if it's only a little dirty, you don't want to feel compelled to clean it.
I would agree about the communication. Do not assume they are "taking care of it" even when they say they are. Call everyone at least once a week. (to your dealer) "Heard from Dal-Tile yet on our problem?" (to Daltile) "Any decision yet on what you intend to do. Any idea when we can expect an answer." And be just as nice as you can be. But be firm, and as mentioned, let them understand you will NEVER rest until they resolve it. They'll eventually give in, just to get rid of you!
IB...I have to say you're right. I've done tons of tile work and my wife picked out a white tile to do a flor in OUR house and I was so overwhelmed with outside work that I didnt even think about it. I just said get what you want an I'll lay it. Its the worst. Shows as you said every eyelash.....Unless you're a rock star and want every room in your house white to show your purity...lol...and have maids cleaning up after you then rock on dude
BE well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Interesting comments about the white tile...my DH is a cleaning fanatic (I, on the other hand, am basically a slob) and we had white tile in our house we lived in six years before we moved, and we had no problems with it showing dirt. Might be the type of tile you use or something. I do agree that some colors are better...in our current house, the tile is sort of beige with a lot of flecks and gradation to it...it doesn't show anything! I personally love it! But, as I said, I'm a slob. Still, I believe you should be entitled to get what you order and pay for...if you want orange tile to go with a red wall, that's your choice. I also agree that if the tile had been green or something, the tiler should have realized that it wasn't "cascade white" but in this case, it could have reasonably been "artistic license" on the part of the advertising naming folks.
Good advice from everyone, most of which we have been doing, although it has been several days since we've aggravated the tile store, so guess we need to do that today. I also agree that daughter's overdue baby is my concern, not theirs, so will drop that from my rant! Thanks guys. Insist on the real MadMom - accept no substitutes!
Document everything. If you haven't, sit down and write everything, timeline fashion, in a notebook. Names, dates, times, contacts, notes from conversations. What was asked for by you, and what was promised, denied, or inferred by the person on the other end of the phone.
Call each day and ask about the progress of your claim.
Get an address for DalTile and fire a letter off to them, and to the store where you bought the tile...certified mail, return receipt requested.
Just the facts, Ma'am. No excuses. No "bad lighting" stories. No "it picked up the reddish hue from the wood" stories. None of that matters.
Just the facts: 1) I ordered tile 2) It was delivered 3) The labels on the box confirmed that it was the tile we ordered. 4) It was installed by a professional tile setter. 5) When the homeowner saw the installation, the color looked off. 6) you changed the lighting in the room, the tile color still looked off. 7) You took a tile back to the tile store where the tile was purchased to discover that you have been delivered the wrong tile in a box with the correct label. 8) The tile store employee that accepted and wrote up your order, and who in turn delivered the tile to you, also confirmed that the wrong tile was in the right box.
What you want done: You want the tile removed and replaced with the tile that was originally ordered, with DalTile, or whomever was responsible for the box being mislabeled, paying for the materials and labor to correct the problem caused by the mislabeled box delivered by DalTile.
Timeline: You expect a reply by June xxth. Give them 10 days or so.
Don't whine. Don't moan or groan. Your beautiful glass mosaics have no value to DalTile. Your daughter's pregnancy is not a concern. Just the facts. Be pleasant. Be firm. Be mellow, yet firm over the phone.
They are a business and they screwed up. They will compensate you, you just have to ensure that they know you're going to be businesslike as well, and won't be going away until the problem is rectified TO YOUR SATISFACTION.
Materials and labor for full removal and replacement.
Accept nothing less.
Had you ordered the color "Snow White" and the tiles that were delivered were darker than black, and the tile was still installed, then I suppose a dunce cap could be worn by someone on your end. However, the color "Cascade White"? Is that lighter, darker, or similar in color to "Snowflake", "Arctic Whiteout", "Wonder Bread", or "New Baby's Ass"?
"Cascade White" could be white, off-white, who knows? In the end, it doesn't matter. The box was mislabeled. The mislabeled tile was installed by a professional tilesetter who assumed that "Cascade White" just might be beige instead of white. Then again, the tile wasn't supposed to be white. It's "Cascade White", and I think nly the artsy folks in marketing actually know what it's really supposed to look like.
Be tenacious, get the tile fixed, and the best of health to your daughter and your grandchild.
Edit: Two cleen up a zillyin speling errers.
Edited 5/22/2002 12:53:08 AM ET by Mongo
I just started to write some of the same thoughts until I read Mongo's wonderful post.... said all I had to say and then some!
Go get 'em!
Geeze! Sorry to laugh but I'm a contractor and a couple of years ago I remodeled my own bath and was using Dal-tile supplied by my local dealer. As I approached the end of the job, two of the boxes had hot pink slashes on them. When I opened the boxes and started laying the tile the same slash marks were on each tile and I noticed that each tile had an imperfection (blemish, bubble, etc.) It didn't take long to realize that these were two boxes of rejects. I brought them back to my dealer and he called me back later in the week to tell me that Dal-tile said that I hadn't bought them there but more than likely got them at the Home Depot!!!. What the hell kind of sense did that make? I didn't get them at the H.D. but since when did they start admitting to sell second rate products? This was a simple 6x6 almond floor tile and I refuse to deal with Dal-tile ever since.