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Barrel Ceiling

Timuhler | Posted in Photo Gallery on December 23, 2004 02:20am

Today we framed a barrel ceiling that curved at each end.  It went well, but I have a question for you guys here at Breaktime.

I thought that when the curve of the barrel had the same radius as the curve at the end, that the corner curves are elliptical?  When we did that, it didn’t work.  We ended up scribing the curve to fit and it looked more parabolic than elliptical.  I have to do some research to figure out what we did wrong.

Here were the dimensions of the room.  It was 68″ wide and the height of the hallway was 16″.  That gave me a radius of 44 1/8″      The elliptical corners should have been 16″ tall and the semi-major  axis should have been 48 1/16″ (or in total about 96 1/8″).  We did exactly that and it didn’t work. 

Anyone have any suggestions?  Here are some pics.  I’m the guy in the orange.

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  1. User avater
    IMERC | Dec 23, 2004 02:29am | #1

    what did you want the center and cross axis to be???

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

    WOW!!!   What a Ride!

    1. User avater
      Timuhler | Dec 23, 2004 04:02am | #3

      I'm tired today and I think it slowing my brain down.  Can you tell me what you mean by your question?  I'm just too slow right now to understand it :-)  Sorry

      1. Joe_Fusco | Dec 23, 2004 04:06am | #4

        Tim,This is the piece you needed.

        1. User avater
          Timuhler | Dec 23, 2004 04:12am | #6

          Joe,

          I didn't connect you with the screen name "Flash".  Sorry about that.  I figured you would be the guy to ask and I was just about to post this on your site :-)  Thanks for helping me. 

          1. Joe_Fusco | Dec 23, 2004 04:21am | #8

            Tim,I figured you didn't know it was me. . . ;-).

      2. zendo | Dec 23, 2004 04:18am | #7

        Tim, If I think I understand you, I think the quick and dirty would be that your splines (osb) at the corners shouldnt be going into the corners of the rectangle.  I think they would be equidistant apart from one another.  This would only be achieved if both combined on each side, made a square.  I really cant tell from the photo.  Then your 2x framing would have to be angled on each end from the last spline back- the end of the straight runs.

        1. User avater
          Timuhler | Dec 23, 2004 04:32am | #9

          I don't think it matters that its a rectangle because the segmented curves are identical.  The one curve on the end is exactly 1/2 the main curve.  Where those curves intersect form an ellipse.  I just didn't lay out the ellipse correctly.

          1. zendo | Dec 23, 2004 05:31am | #11

            Yes, I got thinking about it more since, there may be a number of ways, but I think you could accomplish the task by adding another spline of osb.  Your curve seems fine, its the angle of the 2xs and maybe it needs more fillets/sections.  At least one per corner.

      3. User avater
        IMERC | Dec 24, 2004 09:55pm | #16

        more than one axis to a barrel....

        Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

  2. Joe_Fusco | Dec 23, 2004 03:26am | #2

    Hi Tim,

    How long do you think it will be before someone tells you where you went wrong. . . ;-).

    From looking at the picture it’s clear that you used a segmented arch so you would need to use only a segment of the corresponding ellipse. The complete ellipse you need is defined by the (radius * square root of 2) for the semi major and the radius for the semi minor.

    1. User avater
      Timuhler | Dec 23, 2004 04:08am | #5

      I was just stumped because I thought that the intersection of the 2 curves (which are identical, cut at the same time with the jigsaw) was an ellipse.  I can draw an ellipse, and have done so on cove ceilings in the past and they worked just fine, but today I was doing something wrong and I HATE NOT KNOWING WHAT I DID!!  Ok, I'm calm now :-)

      The complete ellipse you need is defined by the (radius * square root of 2) for the semi major and the radius for the semi minor.

      Now, I understand the semi major, but I'm not clear by what you mean about using the radius of the segmented arch for the semi minor and that is probably what messed me up.  I'm trying to get my autocad to work and I'll draw a picture of what I did. 

      thanks for your help by the way.

    2. User avater
      Timuhler | Dec 23, 2004 04:39am | #10

      The complete ellipse you need is defined by the (radius * square root of 2) for the semi major and the radius for the semi minor.

       

      Joe,

      Can you explain to me the above comment?  I thought I understood this stuff, but obviously I don't :-) 

      1. Joe_Fusco | Dec 23, 2004 06:16am | #12

        Tim,The simplest why to explain it is to say that if you were in a room that was 88-1/4” wide and 44-1/8” high your ellipse would be defined by a semi minor axis of 44-1/8” and a semi major axis of 44-1/8” * 1.4142 or about 62-3/8”.Your barrel ceiling is just a section of this. This section is formed about 16” down from the top and is about 68” wide. You need to define the complete ellipse to get the correct section.

        1. jet | Dec 23, 2004 06:31am | #13

          That is one very erratic super ball trace line."Sir, if you were my husband I would poison your tea"

          "Madam, if I were your husband I would drink it." Sir Winston Churchhill

  3. ponytl | Dec 23, 2004 08:18am | #14

    it still looks good...  

    1. User avater
      Timuhler | Dec 24, 2004 04:03am | #15

      Thanks.  Now that Joe F. has corrected me (again.  Thanks Joe :-)), I can do it faster and cleaner next time.                            I hope :-)

  4. 5150 | Dec 27, 2004 08:28pm | #17

    Read "Circular work in carpentry and joinery" by Collings. It is an old text but available in reprint.

    1. User avater
      Timuhler | Dec 28, 2004 04:35am | #18

      I've got that book.  I just thought I knew what I was doing :-)  Thanks for the tip though.

      1. User avater
        IMERC | Dec 29, 2004 03:00am | #19

        so what kind of barrel shape were you looking for...

        oil drum or wine barrel....

        Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

        WOW!!!   What a Ride!

        1. User avater
          Timuhler | Dec 29, 2004 04:02am | #20

          neither.  Each end of the hallway would curve back toward the main body 1/2 the barrel of the main section.  Basically a hip roof with the king commons all curving at the same radius and elliptical hips.

          1. User avater
            dieselpig | Dec 29, 2004 05:24am | #21

            What did you do wrong?

            Uhhhhhhh.........

            I have no idea.  But I'm liking the part you did right!

            You're the bomb dude.... keep up the great work.  It pushes me to continue to learn.

            "What would Tim do?"

          2. User avater
            Timuhler | Dec 29, 2004 08:31am | #22

            "What would Tim do?"

            Well what Tim is doing right now is waiting for his Bosch hat :-)  I ordered a knit hat too because it's been in the lower 30s here in the morning and my ears are cold

             

            thanks for the compliments.  I have to be honest though, if it wasn't for Joe Fusco, I wouldn't have a clue.  He has helped me more than I can even say. 

          3. User avater
            IMERC | Dec 30, 2004 02:27am | #23

            ok...

            so how would Tim do this...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          4. User avater
            Timuhler | Dec 30, 2004 03:41am | #24

            He'd copy someone who knew how :=)

            Seriously though, do you have any tips in general?  I'd love to hear them and then tell everyone they are mine :-)  I am not an expert at anything (although I am good at packing material around the job) so any wisdom you have for me would be very much appreciated

          5. User avater
            IMERC | Dec 31, 2004 02:02am | #25

            some place I couldn't understand what you wanted...

            I draw a blank from what you say or I'm seeing something else...

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

          6. User avater
            Timuhler | Dec 31, 2004 03:39am | #26

            I can tell that there is a miscommunication between us.  I'm not always very clear.  I think that from the pics and the description, it's understandable, but then again I know what I mean :-)  Sorry if this is frustrating for you.

          7. User avater
            IMERC | Jan 01, 2005 05:41am | #27

            The things that frustrate me never make it to forum....

            ROAR>>>>

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

            WOW!!!   What a Ride!

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