Always trimming over wood floors but am now adding a play room and will carpet it. What is the SOP for installing the base trim? I’m putting down 1×4 FJ pine (will be painted) and them a colonial cap and a little 1/4 round shoe. My plan (please advise if this is way off base) is to put down the base and leave a 1/2″ gap off the subfloor and then add the cap. After the carpet is in I’ll tack in the 1/4 round shoe on the carpet. Make sense?
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Replies
Why use the shoe? I used to all ways use a scrap of base,9/16'' or 11/16'' on the subfloor..run the base, carpet guy adds tackless strip ( why is called tackless when it's more tacks than wood?..trick question) and tucks the rug under..
shoe is fer wood/vinyl..where a gap may be for expansion, or a wavy subfloor.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I agree with sphere
In case that was a serious question, it's called "tackless" because when you use the strip you don't have to tack down the carpet to the floor; using, wait for it, 'carpet tacks'..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I don't know what all this 1/16th's talk is about, just use a 3/8th's gap between the subfloor and base, and it will accomodate a high- or low-ply carpet scheme.
If the gap is too big ... by accident or by design ... you have the risk of seeing a space under the trim. Keep the gap a little small ... 3/8 to 1/2 ... and the carpet will tuck snugly under the trim. Makes it harder to paint, but looks neater. Or you could use a big gap so the carpet tucks easily, and caulk the difference. But that only works if you use sheetrock screws to hang the cabinets.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Store bought base is 11/16..a scrap of it for a a spacer leaves a space 11/16.
Some of the thinner stuff is 9/16..
hence the "talk of 16ths"
A thin base w/o a cap follows the wavy sheetrock, less caulking.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
A thin base w/o a cap follows the wavy sheetrock, less caulking.
I am not sure if I read it right, I thought Ed was suggesting to Wiley to caulk the difference between the base and the carpet, not the base and the sheetrock.
Now that's a real carpenter.
Good catch Tom ... my comment about caulk was intended to be as you say ... caulk the gap between the carpet and the base ... something that only a "real carpenter" would do ... along with sheetrock screws for cabinets, etc.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
I knew that, it was a trick question..lol
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I recently posed the same question to my carpet installer. He said leaving a 1/4" gap will handle 99% of the carpets out there and allow for the cleanest look afterwards. No shoe molding is traditional where areas are carpeted. Shoe molding is for hard floors where the floors aren't perfectly flat or level.
Well, he's really practiced with using a stair-tool to wedge the excess carpet under the base; I like a bigger gap to work with and it's so much easier to paint if the gap is less than 1/2 way down the pile (anyone else use the "newspaper with Saran wrap" trick to protect the carpet while you're painting the base ? You can slip the paper out, then just trim the wrap at the bottom of the base with a utility knife.
The absolute worst is when there is no gap and the carpet has to be trimed to fit - they can never seem to get the carpet tight enough the first time, even using power stretchers, and you get those ripples in the middel of the floor..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
never used newspaper and wrap.
have used cardboard strips and even roll flashing, roll it out, paint, then roll it back up for another time.
I use the venetian blind slats (and the purpose made slats for base); but, if you have a lot to do and don't have a lot of drop-cloths, using the newspaper trick does double-duty..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
These have been doing a good job of it for many years. You just slide them along as you go and every so often pickum up and whip em off.
You don't want to leave more than 3/8" under the base. Real carpenters put the base on the subfloor. You can never tell what the floor may be replaced with in the future. No sense having to replace the base too. With your small size lifting the base makes sense. If you like the look of the shoe molding, I do, go for it. It will be difficult to nail since there isn't much wood behind it. Pre drill parallel with the floor and use a gauge so it doesn't look like the ocean.
" REAL carpenters"? ?
care to elaborate?
define?
KMA
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Yea!
What the hell? I thought I was a real carpenter?
keep thinkin that, you ARE.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I would say "real carpenters" would want a pretty decent gap so that it would be easier to put the next floor down. That would be the time for base shoe.
Real carpenters put the base on the subfloor Now there's an incredibly tacky and incorrect response. Think about it ... what would the carpet be replaced with? Certainly not vinyl tile. Any ceramic tile or stone, or wood flooring, would be as thick as the carpet, so the raised base would be well situated for any future changes. With comments like that, maybe you should go back to watching Hometime or TOH. Real carpenters my butt!
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Glad I made your day Ed. I like those shows. I think Tom DeSilva is a real carpenter regardless of how he does his base. Same goes for a lot of you other guys around here. JoJo and Robin can come over anytime, I'll find something for them to do. If you have much experience with old buildings and architectural drawings, you know that the base has gone down before the flooring for a long time. Real flooring installers did not have a problem with fitting. It has only been recently that people are doing base after the floor and making special provisions for flooring installers. I think it started just about the time we stopped using Boston layout and doors started to get prehung. Doing it after is not a problem with small base but the 10" and 12" will shrink up. Fitting to uneven surfaces like Mexican tile is not only tedious but it may open up and a shoe molding won't help much. I think you get a much better look when the tile is grouted to the base. Less place for grime to collect also. Who knows what type of floor will go down the next time. I spend a fair amount of time ripping out trim work today for something the customer thinks is better. Hard to know what their tastes will be in the future. I put down the base in my own home after the flooring mostly because I stink at vinyl. There have been two tile floors there since. At least 30% of my pine base has shrunk up to ugly and it was only 6". There are some advantages to leaving it up especially when a carpet installer tries to pack an inch and a half up against your base and breaks the sheetrock corners and pops nails and screws in a finished room. I like masking off new carpeting for repainting. I'm having this argument with a homeowner right now. The flooring guy also wants to tear off the scotia molding on the all open stair treads. Not only am I using 10" red oak base but it is also the bottom rail for some raised panel wainscoting which in turn is integrated into the window trim. I don't really like working over finished floors. If a future floor is thinner a shoe molding helps on the straight runs but it doesn't always help at the door jambs and casings which are sometimes held up too. I don't have any problem helping out the carpet guys a little but I don't want to do the flooring persons job for him or her. By the way carpet can be 1 1/2" thick. Some traditional ways still have their merits. The tacky trait seems to come naturally but the wrong answers take some work. Gotta go Dean is coming on.
ok, i'll shaddapt now ya splained it
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
fat end of a shim ...
off the subfloor.
from a real carp ...
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Real carpenters?! You mean I've been studying under hacks this whole time?
Hey at least I can tell them something now.
Well let's see if I get this straight.
I started off dreaming of being a real carpenter, so no that wasn't being a real carpenter.
I became a real carpenter and wasn't dreaming about becoming a real carpenter, no that wasn't a real carpenter that was a nightmare.
So Now I've got it straight.
I'm not a real carpenter I'm a nightmare.
You are talking to yourself in you dream again?
Forget the shoe. It just wont look good on carpet.
There is no good reason to leave a gap under the base other than to hide some speaker wires.
I always raise my base to the highest point on the floor just to make installation easier.
if the carpet is indeed 1 1/2" then raise it a little more just to get the most out of your base height.
For a finished floor always scribe, caulk and grout are not trim
For carpet, I'm used to painted base. I'm also used to putting the base on after the carpet guys are done, too (if it's not there, the carpet folks cant ding it putting down tackless).
yeah and it looks so damn good, when the carpet pile is covering part of the base...
and what's this talk about replacing the floor later?
with what?
tile? wood? vinyl?
cause ya know you're not going to be pulling the base if you replace the floor with anything but new carpet.
yeah, usually put the base down before those too.... you know, run the wood/tile/vinyl right up that base that's resting on the sub-floor...
looks real...well... speacial.
I use a scrap of base if it's the thin stuff, or in the case of 1x with a cap, a shim like jeffry.
btw, how's the house going? got any pics of the progress?
Skip the scrap of base for a shim, if you want to gain a little speed, real carpenters use the end of their finger as a shim.
real carpenters use the end of their finger as a shim. First time I try that, I'll nail my finger to the wall.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Isn't that the point? Any real carpenter will just cut the tip of his finger off in the chopsaw and use the piece for a shim. He won't even cry. He'll put a patch on the remaining end with either duct tape, or black electrical tape and get right back to nailing.
I wish that I were a real carpenter
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
There was a show on last night that had a king crabber guy who got his hand caught in a winch line, lost a finger and the rest was reassembled to almost look like his hand. He had a good luck charm around his neck, it had the missing finger on it.
Those guys are a lot smarter then carpenterz cause he puts a string on it, makes it a lot easier to move it around.
OMG!!!! All that trim I gotta go change....
I quit....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
Two or three weeks and I'll have pics of the completed project.
We're hanging the last cab, installing the last sink, got a little finish flooring to do, a bit of trim, neo-angle shower enclosure gets installed next week...
My new motto: Done in two weeks.
Been using it for awhile....
The time pressure is off, though. Our lender said he was satisfied even though we don't have a CO yet. One of the miracles of small town banking. S&L pres sends over his contractor BIL who says "looks good, that'll be fine".
You up in Chi town now? Still pretending to be single? ; )You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams
But ya gotta redo yur base yet....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
No he can just caulk between the base and the carpet!
Hasbeen
I told you you would be in by the holidays, hell Labor Day is 6 weeks out, your ahead of schedule!
I assume there will be a open house.
Doug
There will definately be an "it ain't grand, but it's the nicest home I've ever had" party sometime this fall.
I turn 50 shortly, older son turns 21 three days after that, and were moving into the new place. Gotta have a party!
Guess I could invite the BT crew and call it "Plum Tuckered Out Fest"
; )You're unique! Just like everyone else! Scott Adams