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I would like to find out the best approach to installing new wood baseboards with a new ceramic tile floor. More specifically, I have removed all of the existing baseboards and door casings in my front hall to facilitate the installation of a new concrete slab. Now that the slab has cured for several months and I have put in the new prehung doors, I would like to proceed with the tile installation. But I cannot seem to get a consistent opinion from both potential installers as well as the local tile suppliers as to the best plan-of-attack. It is now split about 50/50 as to whether or not the baseboards and door casing should be installed first. I can see advantages/disadvantes either way.
Any thoughts on this one?
Thanks.
Mark Snyder
Replies
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I would lay the tile first. Then bevel the bottom of your baseboards 45 degrees (on the back side). Scribe to the unevenness of the tile floor and cut with a razor knife, small plane or jigsaw. Looks very good at my house.
It is easier to precisely trim wood than tile. You'll have at least 1/2" of leeway on the edges of the tiles, allowing you to use your tile scraps more efficiently.
Check out Taunton's book on tiling. It has some good points about centering your layout for the best appearance. -David
*Given a choice, I'd have the tile set first. Dave's method is one way to go, although you don't need such a severe back-bevel if you use a block-plane or an agressive rasp. Another alternative, one that I've been using when I sub for the local tile store, is to apply a base shoe (I hate 1/4 round) to the baseboard to conform to the slight variations in the tile. As an aside, I've been cutting a roll of wax paper into thirds and running a strip under the shoe to protect the tile while finishing the base.
*I certainly would do the tile first also. I scribe the base, block plane a slight bevel and prime before I nail it. Quaterround is a poor substitute for such a basic application and a slight gap between tile and base is not readily seen from 6" above the floor, which should be the perspective of most people coming into your entrance.
*Ditto on tile first and baseboard scribed. Tell your tile installers that when you put in the baseboard you don't want to have to scribe so the tile must be perfectly level. Sort of a challenge, they already told you they were the best installers in the business. Right?
*David, Phill, Tommy, and Ralph --Thanks for your advice. If the baseboard goes on after the tile, don't you still get a small gap at every grout line? I can understand certainly scribing the baseboards to fit bumps or dips that extend over several tiles. Do you just live with the gaps at the grout lines, or is this when one reaches for the tube of caulking?Mark
*You may be able to grout up the gap after all is installed. Mask the baseboard first. However I would prefer some neatly applied clear silicone caulking. Mask board and floor first and then apply as needed to gap area. Smooth in well and then remove tape. You will have a nice clean job that is hardly noticeable and watertight.Pete
*would it be a crime to use some white latex caulk? It would match the paint on my base, and tools easily. I have a coulple of spots that bug me every time I look at them, but wasn't really sure whats kosher.
*1) It really doesn't look bad, provided the floor is reasonably flat and/or you profiled the base to conform to the tile surfaces. If the grout is properly applied, it should only be a fraction lower than the tile surface - deep grout channels are not good workmanship.2) If it really bothers you, before you install the base you can mix up a little extra grout and put a dab on each grout line at the edge and flatten it down with a short piece of you base wrapped with wax paper (this gives you both the right height and depth for your fillet). I have seen guys run a bead of plumber's caulk, the kind they use to set in a sink, along the bottom edge of the base as they install it and have also seen glaziers' putty used.
*If you don't want to scribe and prefer to caulk (stain-grade trim), why not use a sanded caulk the same color as the grout used on the floor? The caulk would be more flexible than grout for potential wood movement, and the sanded caulk would better match the grout. Not that anyone but you is ever going to notice...unless you botch the job, of course.
*Can i talk you out of the caulk? I'd rather see a straight base shoe line than a dirty, cracked caulk joint. Easy enough to knock the tiles into submission with a straightedge...the "grout gap" shouldn't be large enough to obsess about anyway.
*Yeah SG, I tend to think you're probably right. My tile and base have been down for about 6 months now and I think I'm the only one that's noticed. I have about 5 tiles that I didn't get quite flat, that show about a 1/16" gap at one side or the other and it just bugs the crap out of me. I keep thinking that some latex painters caulk, tooled off clean with a wet sponge would fill the gap, yet never really be seen. I think I might try it in the closet and see how it goes.
*I think we just had a post like this on the JLC forum. I said I always try to install paint-grade baseboard BEFORE the tile is installed, so that the painters can spray everything, all the base, casing, jambs, doors, before any finish flooring goes in. We hold the base up if the floors are being floated for tile, just as we do for any floors that get underlayment, like for hardwood flooring. After the tile is installed, we install pre-finished base shoe, or the painters mask the floor next to the base before we install the shoe. While I use my scribes almost every day and enjoy scribing precise tightly fitting joints, scribing the baseboard to the floor is something we only do as a last resort. It takes too much time and effort. And those grout joints are REALLY a pain on Saltio tiles and Mexican pavers and tumbled granite, and irregular slate, and... I'm sure one of the reasons we do it this way is because we're bidding all finish by the piece, baseboard by the foot, like most other finish contractors in our area, just as the painters are bidding the job and can do it more profitably if it's all done at once.Gary
*Gary --Thanks for confirming my fears that scribing baseboard to a tiled floor would be a time-consuming and aggravating task. I know from experience that I can eventually get a tight fit, but I kept asking myself if I really had the motivation to undertake it.What do you use for the base shoe? Quarter-round is pretty unexciting. If I put on the baseboards, then tile the floor, then put on a base shoe, and paint last, how can keep the painters from drooling paint on to my new tile and grout? I was planning on priming the wood beforehand, but should I also put on a finish coat of paint before installation?Thanks.Mark
*DO NOT use latex caulk at floor level. It will becomne disclored and ugly and shrunken and ugly and ugly. Did I mention ugly? Too much water and dirt get to it down there. Mopping makes the water problem worse. Latex will eventually pick up mildew in many cases too..... and will get ugly.Pete
*In the vernacular around here, quarter-round is not "shoe", base shoe is a much slimmer profile, 7/16 x 11/16 is a common size, with one edge rounded. For stained base, you'll also see 1/4 x 1+1/8 with an ogee'd edge (or some other nice treatment) used as an apron provided the tile was set close enough to the base. Cut waxed paper rolls into 1/3's (i.e. width, you end up with three rolls, each about 3.5" wide) and lay it down on the tile as you're installing the shoe - the shoe holds it with friction while you paint, but can be pulled out later.
*Thanks Pete, Splinter. I keep looking at the rest of the little projects I have left to finish up this home and I can probably live with the base as is. I really don't want to see it get ugly. I think i read about that in one of the posts in this thread.:-)
*Hello Mark,I would install all trim after the tile installation, even the door jamb if poss-ible. You'll have a much cleaner look. I would also go the base shoe route ratherthan the scribe route. Too much work for something that will be hard to see anyway.The shoe will give the baseboard one moredetail. As for caulk, its my opinion thatthe more you try to hide something, themore it stands out.Good Luck,Mike Merisko
*A small bead of clear silicone caulk tween the newly grouted tile and the just installed primed and painted or varnished unscribed baseboard always works unless I was able to talk the customer into a line of complimentary vertical tile on the wall. Even in this case the clear silicone fits the bill.I always remove baseboards before a tile job and consider a job where this wasn't done (it is appearent) to be a bit inferior. Sort of like a nibbled notch around a doorway if you get my drift.Good Building,Jim Malone
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I would like to find out the best approach to installing new wood baseboards with a new ceramic tile floor. More specifically, I have removed all of the existing baseboards and door casings in my front hall to facilitate the installation of a new concrete slab. Now that the slab has cured for several months and I have put in the new prehung doors, I would like to proceed with the tile installation. But I cannot seem to get a consistent opinion from both potential installers as well as the local tile suppliers as to the best plan-of-attack. It is now split about 50/50 as to whether or not the baseboards and door casing should be installed first. I can see advantages/disadvantes either way.
Any thoughts on this one?
Thanks.
Mark Snyder