Replies

1. 
   BobKovacs | Jan 04, 2004 12:02am | #1

   Dan-

   If you frame before the plumbing is roughed in, you'll need to make sure you don't put studs where the plumber needs to put piping.  It's easy enough to coordinate- just snap the wall layout on the floor, and let the plumber do the underslab work first.  Then, have him review your stud layout for conflicts with vents and drains.

   As far as 2x6 framing, it's more important on the toilet side- that's most likely where the plumber will run the vent stack- again, check with your plumber.

   And, yes, you will need to tie into the main vent- unless you plan to run a new line all the way up through the roof just to serve the new bathroom.

   Bob

1. 
   danz857 | Jan 04, 2004 12:27am | #2

   Thanks Bob, guess I better get a plumber in here before I do any framing. As far as the venting, someone told me that there is some sort of device that doesnt require tieing into the existing vent or installing a new vent. Anyone know anything about what I am talking about?

   thanks again

   Dan

1. 
   xhammerandnailsx | Jan 04, 2004 12:29am | #3

   Our plumber uses a vent that has a cartridge at the top. I don't know the name or any other info, but if you ask some plumbers, I'm sure you'll find it.

2. 
   calvin | Jan 04, 2004 01:14am | #4

   Studer/studor vent, cheater vent.  Oatey makes them as do others

   http://www.oatey.com/apps/sitesearch/search.asp?search=air+admittance+valve

     Ask your plumber    for their advice on all you're asking here.  He would be your most important asset.  Get a good one and best of luck.

    

    

   Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

   Quittin' Time

   Edited 1/3/2004 5:18:21 PM ET by calvin

3. 
   Dinosaur | Jan 04, 2004 07:40am | #6

   To answer a couple of your questions:

   1. Do all underslab plumbing before framing. Cut the floor slab where necessary, dig out the gravel, run the pipes, backfill, and pour a patch to the slab. If you're planning to tile directly onto the concrete slab, make the patch as smooth as possible--you'll save yourself grief later. Then you can frame intelligently over or around the pipes as needed. Using 2x6 is a good idea for the sink wall; it gives you a bit of extra room when running 2" ABS for your sink drain (you go from 1½ to 2 right after the p-trap, usually, where it dives back into the wall). The toilet and shower drains will be below the slab so they won't be in any walls.

   2. The type of cheater vent you're talking about is a crappy, last-ditch solution not appropriate for use in a 'real' house. I see them a lot in weekend shacks and old summer chalets built on a shoestring. They don't work very well and the result is usually a glug-glug-glugging sound in the nearest sink when you flush the crapper. You are much better off either tying into the existing vent or running a new one for this bathroom. It may sound like a big deal, but there are ways to accomplish this without wrecking the whole house and your plumber should know what they are.

   Note: I assume your main waste line discharges below the level of your basement slab; if not, you'll need to install a below-floor pumping station to receive the new toilet, sink, and shower drains. These units are usually about the size of a medium sized plastic garbage can; you install a macerator pump like a Grundfoos to handle the solids. But be careful all the same what you flush....

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

1. 
   danz857 | Jan 05, 2004 04:36am | #7

   Thanks everyone for the information. Since most of the framing is now complete in the other areas I was gonna start framing the bathroom with 2x4's but thought i better check with you pros and I am glad I did.  Will let you know how it works out.

   Thanks again

   Dan

2. 
   JeffBuck | Jan 05, 2004 04:51am | #8

   when installed correctly ...

   studor vents work just fine.

   U a plumber?

   Me neither ... that's why I let my plumber decide when and when they're used.

   Last one "we" put in ..... coupla weeks ago .... under my kitchen sink.

   Works well .... guess he knew what he was talking about?

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   Dinosaur | Jan 05, 2004 05:52am | #10

   I don't know how much of a plumber you aren't, but I can find my way around most residential plumbing without too much trouble--and I suspect you probably can, too. Still, I know my limits and placing vents in a complex multiple-drain/multiple-level house is (up to now) beyond them. That's when I bring in my regular plumbing sub, and he either tells me what to do, or we do it together, or he does it while I do something else, depending on the circumstances.

   My comments on the cheater vent were based on my own experience: I have seen way too many of these puppies installed by god-knows-who in order to save the trouble/expense of running a proper vent stack, and in general if they work, they work kinda pi$$-poorly. I'm glad to hear the installation under your kitchen sink is working out for you; that's great. My only question is why did you need to install one there? New kitchen complete new plumbing? or just an additional sink (a new island or bar with mini-sink)? or was the existing venting insufficient and the cheater a remedial measure? I'm really curious; your answer will add data to my data-bank.

   Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

2. 
   JeffBuck | Jan 06, 2004 02:10am | #11

   existing plumbing .... new(er) addition ... probably about 60-70 yrs old ... to an older house ... built 1902. Original cast main stack ... kitchen drain .. and laundry below ... both drain to the main ... tied in under the concrete floor.

   That secondary stack ... was never vented.

   code here ... I believe ... allows one per stack.

   Kitchen wet wall is back wall of a one story addition .... on a two story house.

   So running a vent up ... and above the roof line of the kitchen ... would place it perfectly to drift into the second floor windows.

   Perfect case for the studor.

   We were getting a mystery smell .... every now and then .... only when the kitchen sink was run ... and not all the time .... but the smell would came from the main stack chase.

   Made no sense what so ever .... I thought the main cast may have been cracked ... so we took that out from right about the basement floor ... to half way up the upstairs bath wall ..... new abs .... new toilet flange and such .... fernco'd in the other bath plumbing....

   Also snapped out the secondary stack .... from concrete in basement and ran all new up into the kitchen cab .... and that's when the studor went in.

   I've used them tons in the past in older ... 80 to 100 yrs old .... rowhouses ... where slow drains and backups were caused by the neighbors ..... rental units.

   All ancient plumbing .... same deal as mine .... gross lack of venting anything but the main.

   I got hooked on them before I took the advice of a good plumber!

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

3. 
   Dinosaur | Jan 06, 2004 06:10am | #12

   Thanks; I get the picture.

   Not a lot that sort of thing in my neck of the woods. There's a lot of big old houses--farm families of up to 18 kids saw to that--but the American standard of having 1.73 bathrooms per resident hasn't yet taken hold here. There are even--believe it or not--houses with NO BATHROOMS ON THE SECOND FLOOR!!!! Just bedrooms. You either use a chamber potty or those two skinny hairy things hanging from your hip bones...Dinosaur

   'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?

4. 
   JeffBuck | Jan 06, 2004 04:57pm | #13

   those row houses I was talking about ....

   now are 2 br rentals ....

   used to be mill housing .....

   2 families .... both br's upstairs...

   1 br(and closet) each ... shared the common stairs from first to second floor

   had an entry/living room ... and a shared kitchen area ...

   full basement .... with the only bath in the place down there .....

   Our sop was a complete gut .... refurbish ... add second bath upstairs in the space that was the back to back closets .... then add a closet in each room on the opposite wall.

   friend of my Dad owns about 30 or so of them ... most of the plumbing was a mix of cast, copper and lead.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

2. 
   MojoMan | Jan 04, 2004 01:58am | #5

   This is a no-brainer. Since you will be working with an experienced, licensed plumber (Right??), consult with him/her first. By talking first and working together, everything will be much easier in the long run. Venting issues can be easy or complex, depending on what else is going on in the house. Work out a plan before you start.

   Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

3. 
   skipj | Jan 05, 2004 05:47am | #9

   danz,

   If you check with your local code enforcement authority (whoever they may be), they will be able to tell you whether studer vents are allowed in your area, for the use you want. Everytime I've had their use approved it has been a godsend, solving venting problems like: 'OK, we put a fake post in the middle of the upstairs living room, and out the roof from there...dang, too close to the opening skylight! OK, maybe...'.

   good luck!

   skipj