Replies

1. 
   MojoMan | Dec 20, 2003 04:40pm | #1

   I'm no plumber either, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to run a new vent(s) up through the roof, or tie into the main vent in the attic. Unless, prehaps, everything is close enough to the main drain to be wet vented.

   Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

1. 
   Richie921 | Dec 20, 2003 09:58pm | #2

   Thanks for the reply.  I figured there had to be an easier way others might know.  The house has two stories and then the attic....that's a long way to run pipe in finished walls.  I hope there is an easier way.

   Richie

2. 
   Dogmeat12 | Dec 20, 2003 11:08pm | #3

   Go to a plumbing supply house and ask for a "Shur vent". I think it is a brand name. Don't get the cheap kind. It allows the vacuum to be broken and keeps the water from being sucked out of the traps. It does this by a one-way valve. I usually put it on the lav drain pipe in the wall.

1. 
   Richie921 | Dec 20, 2003 11:29pm | #4

   Thanks,

   I've seen those valves before...they have to be left exposed on one side and I all the walls around this bathroom are finished and can't have any vents in them.  I'm stuck running the vent pipe.  I was hoping I could run the vent pipe over the spill lkine of all the fixtures and then tie back into the main stack for venting.  Not sure if this would be considered a "wet vent".Richie

1. 
   MojoMan | Dec 21, 2003 12:44am | #5

   You might be on to something there...I forget what it's called, but there is sort of a closed loop venting technique that I've seen used for sinks in islands and similar applications where there is nowhere to run the vent up. With luck, a plumber will chime in here soon.

   Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

1. 
   Richie921 | Dec 21, 2003 12:51am | #6

   Thanks for replying.  I am familiar with the technique you are referring to for island sinks where the vent loops back down (I don't know the name either.  Here I wouldn't have to loop back down.  I could run the vent pipe to the top of the basement wall and tap the main stack there where it comes through the first floor/basement ceiling.  I think this would be called a "wet vent" i.e. a vent for one set of receptacles (basement) and a drain for others i.e. the first and second floor.  Can I do this?

1. 
   MojoMan | Dec 21, 2003 01:37am | #8

   Tapping the main stack for a vent seems kinda hinky. Water and you-know-what coming down the stack could get into your vents. "Wet venting" is when one pipe acts as drain and vent. This can be done over short distances and depends on the diameter of the pipe. For example, since drains must pitch 1/4" per foot, a 1-1/2" drain could run 5' and still have 1/4" for air, so the limit of wet-venting with a 1-1/2" drain is 5' (Or thereabouts, I don't remember the exact limit, might be 4').

   Al Mollitor, Sharon MA

2. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 21, 2003 01:43am | #9

   Yes, No, Maybe, I am not sure.

   http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/plumbing/msg111245384990.html

   http://www.loveplumbing.com/wwwboard/messages/1204.html

   http://209.224.198.110/pdf/May_Jun_03/32-33.pdf

   http://www.codecheck.com/plumcode.htm

   http://www.codecheck.com/pg13_14plumbing.html

   First of all there seems to be a little difference between the different codes on this.

   But it appears that it you have two many fixtures or a single WC on the floor above then you can't do this.

2. 
   NormVila | Dec 30, 2003 12:52am | #22

   Here in western Mass. we call the horizontal wet vent a "bugle vent," because that's the musical instrument that it looks like.  Inspectors generally don't like them, but some approve them and some don't.  It sometimes depends on whether the plumbing inspector knows and likes the plumber that pulled the permit. 

2. 
   Dogmeat12 | Dec 21, 2003 05:00pm | #12

   You can leave that shur-valve exposed under the sink cabinet. We do that a lot when we have a kitchen island with a sink. I have also done what you suggested with running the pipe back over top. Remember, this vent is to break the vacuum in the waste line so that the water in the shower, water closet, and sink don't get pulled out. It does not have to vent the whole system. I know someone will say you shouldn't do it this way, but in your situation it looks like the easy and only way, and it works.

1. 
   dIrishInMe | Dec 21, 2003 05:24pm | #13

   I'm assuming a shur-valve is the same thing as an air admittance valve... Can these be used on water closets?  Not scrutinizing - just trying to learn something here.Matt

1. 
   DaveRicheson | Dec 21, 2003 05:50pm | #14

   Sur-vent is an AAV and comes in sizes up to 3". Some local codes allow AAV in the attics for whole house plumbing vents. I believe the original post said he can't use AAV. If you have "Code Check Plumbing" , the AAV is listed there under both codes, I think. There is also a "check" on wet vents. My copy is out in my shop, and it is 26 degrees  out there right now, or I would walk down the hill and get it. Maybe later, it is going to get up to 50 today.

   Dave

2. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 22, 2003 12:26am | #15

   "Maybe later, it is going to get up to 50 today."

   I am heading your way in a couple of days and it had been stay like this. I am holding you personally responsible <G>.

   "There is also a "check" on wet vents"

   Yes, but if I understand what all I have read the current codes don't all using a vertical wet vent (soil stack) if there is a toilet above.

   There is also a horizontal wet vent. The IPC allows this, but the UPC does not.

   But looking around I found something interesting.

   The misnamed "low flow toilets" should be called low volumn toilets.

   It seems that the changes made in them to keep them from clogging now give a supper charged dump, even with the non-pressurized.

   That may lead to more changes in venting requirements.

   http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,76521,00.html

3. 
   DaveRicheson | Dec 22, 2003 04:43pm | #19

   Bring an umbrella and a snow shovel. Weather forcasters can't get any closer than that for the holidays.

   Happy Holidays to you and your family!

   Dave

4. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 22, 2003 05:38pm | #20

   Yes, but it is suppose to be mostly warm so no accumlation.

   A Merry Christmass to you and yours. But what the grand kid, we don't want Rudoph being shot with a bow and arrow <VBG>.

5. 
   Dogmeat12 | Dec 22, 2003 04:56am | #17

   I believe they are one and the same. I have used them on a water closet line when the water closet was way at the other end of the house, like in a half bath , away from the main stack.Now, is it code? I don't know but it works. Only thing, don't buy the cheap plastic thing with a flap, buy the one that's spring loaded and made of something heavy like schedule 40, about $30 I think.

3. 
   dIrishInMe | Dec 21, 2003 01:23am | #7

   take a look at this: http://209.224.198.110/pdf/May_Jun_03/32-33.pdf  And, there might be something in here for you: http://www.dora.state.co.us/plumbing/pb_rule_reg.htm

   Send me your E-mail address, and I'll send you an E-copy of a ~12 page article that explains venting more completly.

   Matt
1. 
   BillHartmann | Dec 21, 2003 01:48am | #10

   I would like a copy of that.

   [email protected] Thanks,

4. 
   archyII | Dec 21, 2003 03:15am | #11

   I'm also not a plumber but you can't have a toilet above a wet vent (solids may enter the vent).  Some places allow side wall venting but the vent has to be a min. of 10' away from an operable window on each side and no windows above.  With the side wall vent you may get sewar gas in the house if its windy.  One other option maybe to run the vent on the outside of the house and conceal it with a trellis or something.

5. 
   Richie921 | Dec 22, 2003 12:28am | #16

   Hey all,

   Thanks for the responses.  Another contractor I know told me they just punch through the foundation as high as possible (we do get snow in NYC) and just vent it through the wall (no pipe running up the house).  That sounded a little hokey (sp?) but he swears it works fine.  The house is old with plaster walls so I didn't want to have to break the plaster in the walls above to get a vent pipe to the attic where I could join into the main stack.  I was hoping some plumbers out there would have a trick.  I have used the mentioned AAV valves and they work great but just not in this instance.  If I was to run the vent out the foundation and up the side of the house over the roof what kind of pipe must be used (galvanized, etc...).  Maybe I can hide it in a chase of some sort.  Thanks a lot to all who replied.  I look forward to other suggestions.

   Richie

6. 
   sungod | Dec 22, 2003 05:51am | #18

   The normal way to vent in the basement is to locate the toilet on the first floor.  From the basement you should see the closet bend.  Within 6 feet of the closet ring is the vent going up the first floor wall.  Upstairs on the first floor, open up the wall where the toilet vent goes up, cut the vent, add a "Y" and run it down to the basement ceiling.

1. 
   Richie921 | Dec 29, 2003 08:01pm | #21

   Sorry it took soooo looong....the holidays are crazy!  Thanks for the advise on locating the closet bend...I admit I never thought of that.  Only problem is I can't break the wall of the bathroom on the first floor.  It is tile and wallpaper...neither of which can be patched easily.

   Richie

1. 
   MojoMan | Dec 30, 2003 01:40am | #23

   OK...I found it! Check out the June, 1999 issue of JLC (With all due respect to FHB!). There is a VERY detailed piece on plumbing vents. If you can't find help in this article, call a good plumber!

   Al Mollitor, Sharon MA