Good evening all! I’m a new member here. My father-in-law (PurpleThumb) recommended that I tap into the expertise here to solve a basement drainage problem… <!—-><!—->
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We have a basement drainage tile problem that we’re working on. After quite a bit of investigation, and having removed half of the basement floor, we’ve found that the drain tile was improperly installed. The exterior drain tile comes through the foundation wall at the foundation wall step down. It is supposed to turn and drain water toward the sump basket at the front of the house. Instead of turning toward the sump the tile actually turns straight downward for three feet and then turns back upward and heads toward the sump. The net effect is that the unintentional loop creates a holding area for water to drain in under the basement floor (creating a hydrostatic pump under the floor) and the floor has cracked and heaved. <!—->
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Everyone, including the builder, agrees that the drain tile is the problem. But, we’re he <!—-><!—->ari<!—->ng two very different opinions about how to fix the problem and we’re trying to figure out which is best. The alternatives are to install a secondary sump basket inside the basement, or “daylight” the drain tile system. We’re not fans of the additional sump basket since the basket placement would be directly under two windows and would prevent us from finishing a large section of the basement. The daylighted approach sounds like a better system, but seems like it would entail greater effort and cost.<!—->
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Our house has a walkout basement and is built on a sloping lot. The lot slopes toward a drainage pond. The soil under the basement floor has been tested as silty clay. Our questions are: <!—->
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1) Can an interior drain tile be connected through the foundation to a “daylighted†exterior drain tile? Is there any reason it wouldn’t be a good idea?<!—->
2) Do “daylighted†drain tile systems freeze up in the winter? If so, is there a way to prevent freeze up?<!—->
3) Do “daylighted†drain tile systems have to be cleaned out periodically? If so, how often? <!—->
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Any and all help is greatly appreciated,<!—->
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Son-of-PurpleThumb <!—->
Replies
I think it best to daylight drain tails whenever possible. You say you have a daylight basement and a sloping lot, so why not (other than excavation costs)? Sump pumps require maintenance, and don't work during power outages - which is likely when you will need it the most. IMO, having a seperate pipe system for your exterior drains and interior drains is always best. Use 4" PVC for the interior daylighted drain tail. Sched 30 is fine if you can find it.
If you hook the exterior and interior thogther and there is a problem with the system - it's disaster.
You already have a problem, so you might as well install a permenent solution the 2nd time around.
"Use 4" PVC for the interior daylighted drain tail. Sched 30 is fine if you can find it. "Also S&D and SDR 35.That is what I used for for gutters and trench drains (I for got which I used). But I used corregated plastic tubing for the footing drains.
Matt,
Thanks for the info. What is the disaster that happens when you tie inside and outside drain tile together?
>> What is the disaster that happens when you tie inside and outside drain tile together? << If you tie the 2 systems together draining into 1 drain tail or sump, and that drain tail or pump gets clogged or drain tail pipe pipe is crushed by vehicular traffic, etc, all the exterior water ends up in your basement.
See attached pic for a simple, effective, cost feasible, drain system.
Matt
Edited 5/8/2005 12:21 pm ET by DIRISHINME
Let's try the attachment again...
Matt
Hey there is no power to go out or motor to fail with daylighting?
So what is not to like?
I am wonder by a sump was installed in the first place.
Now I am not a pro. But I have a house on a hillside.
Lower level is slab on grade on the front side with hot air ducts under the slab. The back side of the first floor is about 4ft under ground.
Then it steps up to the basement under the garage. so the front side of basement slab is at ground level and the backside (the stree) is 8ft under ground.
Now I used to have problems about every two years where we would have 3 or 4 days of constant heavy rains followed by a downpour. The ducts will fill about 1/3 of the way with water and a small pump would not remove it. 12-24 hours later the water would be gone and not problems until the next time.
My neighbor, that does foundation work, was sure that I needed a sump pump in the lower level. Did not realy want to do that as there was no good space for it.
But we started digging around the foundation where the garage basement hits the lower level. I was going to install a drain there to capture the water "hoping" that enough of it was at that point.
What I found first was a small spring. Even though it was the middle of the summer and dry the hole was dripping water. But more important I foudn the end of a drain line that had been run around the backside of the garage basement. It was just forgot and left there. The driveway is grave and there was about 6ft of fill at the back of the garage. So all of the water would run through the grave/rock fill hit the drain and flow to the lower section and had no where to go.
We extened that drain out the daylight (the lake) and have not any any problems in the last 15-20 years.
"1) Can an interior drain tile be connected through the foundation to a “daylighted” exterior drain tile? Is there any reason it wouldn’t be a good idea?"
In your case the only potential problem that I see is that the inside is lower than the outside. I don't know by how much. So if you are just extensing the OUTSIDE drain then you are leaving a resivor of water under the floor. Abit as a lower level that it was. If you are truly extending the inside tile than that is not a problem.
2) Do “daylighted” drain tile systems freeze up in the winter? If so, is there a way to prevent freeze up?"
It has not been a problem in my case. I am in the Kansas City area. In my areas, and I suspect most others, that there is not that much of a water problem during freezing weather. Now if you have SMALL spring there might be some combination of flow/temp where it would freeze up. A large flowing spring would keep it clear.
"3) Do “daylighted” drain tile systems have to be cleaned out periodically? If so, how often?"
No more than any other. You might want to install an strainer over the outlet to prevent animals from getting in.
One word of caution. Don't tie this into an existing drain used for gutters. Gutters can put trash in the drain and have them clog up. And you don't want the drain system to act as funnel with the gutter water backing up into your footing drains.
"It is supposed to turn and drain water toward the sump basket at the front of the house. Instead of turning toward the sump the tile actually turns straight downward for three feet and then turns back upward and heads toward the sump. The net effect is that the unintentional loop creates a holding area for water to drain in under the basement floor (creating a hydrostatic pump under the floor) and the floor has cracked and heaved. "
Since the floor is trashed anyway why not fix that loop. And run the drain to daylight. I say that only because you already have the sump. And if you do daylight from the outside drains you won't get all of the water due to the height difference.
Having a daylight or positive flow is the best choice. If there is water accumulation and the pump fails for any reason, you could have flooding in the basement. If the positive drain has some decent pitch, winter freezing should not be a problem. If you can't get enough pitch, you should have a back up pump for those spring conditions when the drain could be frozen.
Here in the Northeast, we had 8" of rain in April along with a huge amount of snow melt. May looks like it's going to be just as bad. I don't think you can find a sump pump on a store shelf. Folks with good positive drains are not having trouble. Everyone else is running pumps 24/7. I would not advise finishing a basement if proper drainage wasn't correctly installed. I've seen 2' of water in a basement and people have been electrocuted in wet conditions. If you can get a good daylight drain in, by all means, do it.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
only 8"?we just had eight in one storm and five in another with several good showers during the three weeks in between. It all staarted just as all the snow thawerd and had the ground nicely saturated.daylight drains get my vote.
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