Basement remodel – Steel vs. wood studs
mhow42
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I’m about to start a basement remodel – should I use steel or wood studs. What are the pluses and minuses of either system. I’ve never worked with steel, and done quite a bit with wood. I don’t have much equipment for steel except for some tin-snips, so would have to buy a cut-off saw, and anything else.
Basement is currently empty, poured walls and will be a family room w/ an adjacent bathroom. I was going to sandwich 2″ XPS between the new walls and foundation walls. Steal is roughly 15% more expensive, but in theory should go up much faster.
Help.
Replies
Steel Studs
I use steel most every basement remodel. It came about as an offshoot of working with steel in commercial. Liked the way you could deal with all sorts of go arounds (ducts, bulkheads, beams pipes.................alot of stuff) easily.
The ability to cut a bunch of studs "close" and have the tracks catch them and hold them fine for drywall partitions.
Sure, you need to fasten wood to steel-door jambs, trim, whatever.........that can be dealt with. Line door openings with a 2x4 wrap, nail off your jambs and casings no problem.
Basebd-I spot glue and penetrate the steel stud with a 15 ga nail-or, if necessary I use finish screws.
Leveling soffits made easy with track, some drop stud pcs (smaller than 3-5/8's) and a sheet of either drywall or ply covered with drywall for the bottom-Straight, true and easier than fumbling around all the mechanicals that seem to run below the joists.
Here's a link to a basement job-might give you something to think about.
http://www.quittintime.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5253/an/0/page/0#Post5253
There are pluses definitely-easy to carry down there by the bunch. Straight. Many sizes (widths).
Some tricks-crimping instead of screwing studs, passing board through a "T"'d wall junction.
Grommets (plastic) to snap into the prepunched holes in the metal studs to run your romex through safely and legally.
Full size 16 or 24'' fibreglass sound / thermal batts to they friction fit.
Many others.
Steel Studs
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give steel a try and make sure to take photo's to post latter.
Thanks.
Some random thoughts-
I like to use 2-1/2" steel studs around thew outside perimeter- they're a little less costly, plus you gain another inch of space. I know it doesn't sound like much, but sometimes that can make a big difference.
I fasten the track to the concrete floors with a power activated tool (PAT). Be sure to use the nails with the attached washers, so they don't blow thru the track. I generally place a strip of 30# tar paper, or Vycor, between the track and the concrete to help minimize any future rusting of the steel.
Check with your local building dept. Chances are they'll want you to install some kind of firestopping above the walls around the perimeter. Its a good idea just in case a fire starts in the wall cavity. I cut strips of sheetrock wide enough to go from the sill plate, to just inside where the interior side of the wall will be. You may also have to firecaulk the joint between the SR and the sill plate to seal it.
If you're going to raise the floor any significant amount, you may need to change out the stairs to keep all the rises (reasonably) the same. IIRC, code says they have to be withing 1/8" of each other
golf today Shep
and boy did I get a workout. Could hardly keep count.
If you're going to raise the floor any significant amount, you may need to change out the stairs to keep all the rises (reasonably) the same. IIRC, code says they have to be withing 1/8" of each other
So, new IRC 1/8'' difference between lowest and highest? What happened to our 3/8'ths?
You are right on the money with the 2-1/2 stud.
1-5/8ths for some boxing and soffits if not using dropped plywood for the sides.
jeezus, hope I can make it up the stairs tonight.............
You may be right about that 3/8"; my memory is getting disturbingly unreliable. Especially right now since I have a nasty cold, and all those cold meds aren't doing anything to help keep my mind clear <G>
I'm playing 3 days in a row next week, starting Thurs. I hope I survive.
2 1/2" stell studs
If you go with 2 1/2" steel studs, do you need to worry about having your electrical too close to the frame face? I like the idea of the thinner studs, one for costs, but also for wall thickness, as I plan to have 2" XPS, the window sills will be rather large.
Would you also go with the 2 1/2" studs for the interior walls too? How much strength/rigidity to you loose if you are using 20 ga. steel?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
You shouldn't have any problems with the elec. boxes on 2x3 walls; just remember to leave them 1/2" proud of the stud face. I prefer the side mounted boxes for metal studs, since I always have a problem with the rock breaking on the screws around the box opening with the face mount tabs.
2x4s studs, I think, are better for partition walls. They're stiffer, and you can get standard prehung door units for that wall thickness.
As a carpenter, I admit to having a preference for wood most of the time. But I think steel studs are better for basements.
They won't absorb moisture, and become moldy, if the basement floods. They won't ever rot. They're much lighter to carry, especially if you don't have outside access to the basement.
they can be easily cut with tin snips, or a circular saw with a metal balde. You don't NEED to buy a cutoff saw, but there's ever nothing wrong with buying tools <G>. You don't need to be real accurate with your cuts, because the screws making the connections actually gives the walls their strength.
I don't like using fiberglass insulation in basements, because if it ever floods, the fiberglass will hold water, and wick it further up the wall. IMO, rigid foam is the way to go.
I don't like using fiberglass insulation in basements, because if it ever floods, the fiberglass will hold water, and wick it further up the wall.
Not picking nits, but if a basement floods, the dw and insulation is going to come out anyway, to at least 1' above the flood line. Even rigid foam would get pulled after a flood. The whole remediation process after a basement flood is intense. We just went through it last year in the commercial building I work in, and we only had a few inches of water. For buildings that had over a foot of water, the insurance companies company adjusters were writing the basements as 100% losses.
I'm a metal stud guy myself and I like rigid foam. Fitting it tightly into a metal stud cavity is a PITA. better to sandwhich it behind the syuds and agianst the concrete walls, than try to fit it in the walls.
To the OP: manual metal stud cutters are available for a whole lot less $ than a chop saw. They are just as fast and make no noise, don't leave any burrs, and vertually no metal dust. If the house is occupied the "life intrusion" factor drops a bunch, and raises the praise and referrals you will get off the job.
manual metal stud cutters
Never seen a manual metal stud cutter. Where can I get one as the house is occupied, and no use pissing the homeowner off.
Thanks,
I've seen them a few times, being used by the carps in the plant where I used to be employed. Like a guillotine, only with the lever action of a can crusher.
I'm guessing that the cutters are only good for one size of stud, since they have a die to hold the stud as the blade cuts through it.
Here's one, only I think the ones I saw were smaller:
http://www.amazon.com/Malco-SRC24A-Channel-Compound-Leverage/dp/B000E2422Q
Pricey manual steel stud cutters
Wow, that is not a cheap item, but thanks for finding that listing.
Snips
Using snips on litegauge studs is easy. Using them on 20 gauge is not, though it can be done. I usually use the light ones in basements (25/26 gauge). I include lateral stiffeners here called cold rolled channel-a "U" shaped steel bar that slips through the holes in the studs and locks down into the squared off section of the knockout.
You need to line up those holes when framing so cutting only one end of the stud is necessary. The knockouts while sometimes looking the same dimension from both ends..............isn't.
Snips
Using snips on litegauge studs is easy. Using them on 20 gauge is not, though it can be done. I usually use the light ones in basements (25/26 gauge). I include lateral stiffeners here called cold rolled channel-a "U" shaped steel bar that slips through the holes in the studs and locks down into the squared off section of the knockout.
You need to line up those holes when framing so cutting only one end of the stud is necessary. The knockouts while sometimes looking the same dimension from both ends..............isn't.
This channel ties say 12 ft of studs together. If wall is longer, overlap and wire together mid stud opening.
Google a bit and you may find some cheaper. That's the first I found after a 30-second effort.
A little cheaper, but not as robust: http://www.fantastictools.com/p-1132-easy-shear-metal-stud-cutter.aspx
Also a little cheaper, and looks pretty good: http://www.studcutter.com/
No idea what this one costs -- I'm guessing not cheap: http://ajustacut.com/
This looks about like the first one I posted: http://www.fastenmscstore.com/metalstudshear.html
A bit more than you're after, I'm guessing: http://www.studchopper.com/portable.html
Or just get them cut to the right length in the first place with one of these: http://www.howickltd.com/?gclid=CLWhseegyKACFQKF7QodPA8TfQ
That is the one I have.
I didn't realize they had jumped that much in price. Course mine is 20+ years old.
Still cheaper and quiter than a dedicated cut-off saw, unless you find one at Harbor Freight.