7/22/2004
I will shortly be installing 3/4″ X 6″ X 8′ pine T & G beadboard planks in my bathroom(vertically placed). The current wall finish is 5/8″ in. drywall. Do u recommend installing wood nailers in the bays / b/w studs at mid-length height on wall, for backer support when fastening beadboard? using 3 point nailing spots – bottom plate / mid-nailers / top plate? Do u rec. use of liquid nails or adhesive on backsides of brds when installing, atop existing drywall?
What is the most durable, highest quality clear, natural finish – aesthetically as well as functional – waterproofing………….
Is it common for electricians to leave enough slack on the wire feeding into the boxxes to adjust / slightly bring out…. for new wall finish atop old?
I would like to make my trim – base, ceiling, door, windows, & accessorie pieces (tp holder, towel rack, soap dish, 3 pc. base, 3 pc. ceiling…) out of brazilian cherry wood. Any archive patterns or projest that u know of?
Thank You! Chipper
Replies
I would leave the existing drywall in place, apply a bead of Pl to the back of each board, and nail them top & bottom only. Every third or fourth board will get nailed into a stud, and the T&G will hold the others well enough, considering the adhesive and the cap strip. I would not open the wall to add blocking.
There is probably enough slack in the romex so you can pull the outlet out a bit. Don't forget that there was enough slack wire so the sparky could piut the wire under the screws before pushing it into the box. But rather than moving the boxes out a little ... add a box extension on top of the existing box. Very easy to do and completely solves the problem again without opening the wall.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
thank you, I did not know that a box extension was even an option. thanks!!!!!!!!
I can't say what finish is the best, but in a bathroom you should plan on at least three coats of most finishes. You should do the backs and ends too. You could cut all the stock to length, then apply the finish. Any further cuts could be touched up at installation.
It's important to sand the finish, even lightly, to remove any bumps after the last coat. Otherwise, when you wipe down the walls to clean the bathroom, the little nibs of finish will catch lint and hair off the sponge and make the walls look dirtier than when you started. You'll go nuts trying to fight it.
In a new job or a remo where the studs are already stripped down for various reasons, I will put in blocking and stop the sheetrock at the top of the wainscot panel.
But in your case, I would not peel anything off. Fist, because you are going 8' it sounds like, instaed of typical wainscoting. That means there is a decent chance that you can hit the top and bottom plates with the finish nails. But I would also use PL Premium glue on the backs of the new wood. That stuff is so good that the nails are only there to hang it all in place long enough for the glue to set.
As for the moisture problem, you will want to seal all six sides with first coat before installing.
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what does PL stand for - PL glue? available at lumberyards, hardware shops...??
Thanks, By the WAY!!!!!!!!!!!! CHIPPEr
PL is a brand name line of construction adhesives.
The PL Premium is a polyurethene glue tha tbonds almost anything well and permanently.
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Lowes sells PL in the paint/caulk dept. A little more costly than other stuff ... like Liquid nails ... but it's good. For one thing, there is a long working time ... I think the tube says you have 30 min to reposition the item. It doesn't grab the wood as quickly as LiqNails, so you have to clamp or nail to keep things in place for a few minutes ... but once it sets, it's there for good. It also doesn't skin over as quickly as LiqNails, so you can run a bead on the board and not worry about it sticking if you don't get it in place right away.
And be careful about getting any on your fingers ... it sticks. Have a cloth dampened with paint thinner for cleanup.
I missed the part about 8 ft boards. So now I agree with Master Pif ... nails into the top & bottom plates, and a couple of nails for the boards that land on studs.
The box extensions will probably be plastic ... Lowes carries them ... although I asked one fine fella in lowes where they kept the box extensions, and he didn't know what I was talking about. Look in the area where they stock the plastic outlet boxes. Sometimes they have two depths, usually 1/2" and 3/4" deep, I think.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Sound the wall (or use a stud finder gizmo) to find out of there are fire stops installed, as there should be. If so, you don't need to open the gyprock or use glue on the beadboard, either. You'll have three solid spots for nailing. Normally I would use five, but it'll work okay if you're using true 1x that's actually milled to a full ¾" instead of a skinny 5/8 as is too often the case these days....
If there are no fire stops, cut out a 2½" high by wall-width strip of gyprock at mid-height on the wall, and nail or screw a piece of ½" plywood in its place.
I do not recommend the use of glue to hold full-sized T&G in place as seasonal wood movement can cause failure in either the glue or the substrate.
If you want waterproof use ceramic tile and forget the wood. If you want water resistant, on the other hand, then you can stain and varnish your beadboard with marine spar varnish before you install it--and install it over a sheet of poly sheeting .
It is required for electricians to leave a slack loop above or below all boxes; but a box extension as mentioned above is easier than pulling the box and re-mounting it, especially if the sparky was an old-school type who cross nailed the boxes to the studs with 20d's. If that's the case, you're talkin' Sawzall time....
Can't help you on the last question--I didn't even know Brazil had lost her cherry. Nuts....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Those were some good ideas. One thing I like about you is that you think outside the box. Maybe that is partly because you live and work outside the box, being way up thar'...
;)
But I have never seen the PL cause any failure. I suppose it could if the sheetrock substtrate was poor to start with, in which case it should be all removed to avoid mold in the future.
I especially liked the idea of the plywood girth strap insert, but I would hesitate to use it in some situations, such as on an exterior wall where putting it in might compromise an existing vapour barrier.
I have been amazed to find, on visiting friends a couple of times, that they had wood for their shower install. In one case, it was redwood T&G and sealed on all six sides with two coats before installation and two after on the surface. It wastwelve years old when I first saw it and twenty more recently, and still no signs of decay of mildew. It was run vertically. I didn't ever ask if they had put tarpaper behind it.
In the other case, it does have tarpaper behind, but the boards are pine T&G and were only surface sealed wioth poly after insulation. It has done better than I might expect, but it is getting ready for replacement after twenty years - but that is summer camp use only.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One thing I like about you is that you think outside the box. Maybe that is partly because you live and work outside the box, being way up thar'...
Actually, it's more probably because I learned outside the box. I've never had the 'pleasure' of working for another contractor or builder to learn how it's 'supposed to be done'. I've always had to figure each new thing out myself the first time I did it with varying advice from different parties taken into consideration or not depending....
I routinely use wood finishing in bathrooms; never thought it was an issue. Wood is tougher than a lot of manufacturers of 'wood alternatives' would like us to think. If given half a chance to recover, it can take the most amazing punishment and still hang in there for years and years and years....
I just finished the punch list yesterday on a whole basment finish-from- scratch that I started last October. In that job one of the main design issues was that the bathroom to be built into one corner of the single large open space be done so that it intruded as little as possible visually. So, first, that meant it had to be small. But then the HO said he wanted a BIG tiled shower. So second, that meant I'd have to do something so the inside of that room wouldn't feel like the inside of a coffin unless you were in the shower itself. Glass block solved that dilemma--but now I was facing an aesthetic one in that the feel of the room was much too 'cold' with all that tile and glass for what the house was--a country 'cottage' for these city-based folks. Mrs. HO nixed bead boards above the tile line; but both liked the idea of a wood ceiling.
The ceiling is white pine; 5/8x6 double-vee T&G, oil-stained and then teak oiled. Trim is all pine and finished the same way, except for the doorjamb next to the shower door, which had to be structural as well as decorative, so I splurged on a piece of CVG red cedar for that. Take a look. In the inside of this box outside the box enough for y'all??Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Yowzak! I like that stepped crown with the bead
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Me too. Made it myself.
It's actually a built-up cornice made from 1x4 that I ran through my shaper with a beaded ogee bit, with a 15/16" cove blind nailed onto it from the back. You can see it pretty well in this pic of when I was assembling the pieces that went in the corner inside the shower.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Very nice combination of mediums, Excellent job on the Woodwork!
nice job on the moldings!
In the third picture, I was very impressed with the fine finish on the wood floor. You could actually see a reflection off the woodfloor.
I've been planning to write up that whole job for a thread in PHOTO GALLERY now that it's finally finished, but it's gonna take me a few days to get it all organized. I probably have about 300-400 photos, but the earlier stages of the job are on film, so they've got to be scanned.
I thought I was gonna offer this as an article for FHB, but I've been told they don't think any of their readers would be interested in a glass block shower in a basement....
??
wth....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
What a cool design! I love the combination of glass block and wood...looks completely different than I ever would imagine. The trim really makes the whole thing "pop!"
Nice work. I'm impressed.
Have you given any thought to installing it on the diagonal? I used eastern white pine for all my ceilings to include baths. We used Cabot water base pastel stain base as a white wash. The knots show through beautifully and I have not seen any sap show up. Cabot recommended putting poly in the shower room portion but we did not. Five years and no problems.
I did add a mildewcide (sp) for areas that I thought could have problems. In my shower area the ceiling starts at 10' and goes to 12'. We did all staining before install. I would treat all sides for a bath.
Chipper,
If you want to keep the drywall intact then I would use either 4x8 shheets of ply bead plywood that looks like bead board. Or, there are some MDF beadboard products as well. These products are much more stable than real wood. However, since you already have the material, then install nailers about every 2 feet. Finish the backs of the pieces and if you glue, just spot glue in the centers in order to allow for expansion and contraction. Pine moves alot, especially if it is Southern Yellow Pine. I have a 3.5' wainscot of 1x4 SYP beadboard in my bathroom and it is nailed every 16" and I still have gaps, but no buckling. I like it, it is painted, but I like the look of the individual boards. If I werre doing it for someone else I would use the 4x8 sheet alternatives. It's faster and it won't gap. (edit) I think that if you do not install the horizontal nailers then the boards are more likely to buckle
J.P.
Edited 7/23/2004 1:04 pm ET by j.p.
I think j.p. is going to have him work too hard with the nailers. The 4x8 sheets are actually harder to work with in a smaller bathroom environment, and they require ugly fillers at the joints. You said it -- individual boards look better.
Sorry I should have addressed to someone else!
Ply bead is fine for porch ceilings, etc but I would not consider it for anything better than a hunting cabin/vacation place for interior finish. There are nice sheet goods that look the same but do not have "football dutchman" repairs and will not have serious grain raising if painted with waterbase products.
There area also some pretty nice single board products that are not 3/4 thick too. Shy away from the low priced stuff (Lowes has some) as the waste is about 50%.
Edited 7/23/2004 2:38 pm ET by RASCONC
The fir 1x4 hat I use is only 5/8" thick. The GP stuff is 5/16" and is crap. The Azex is 5/16" too, but is fantastic for overlying a substrate like this application.
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I've used the ply bead that is essentially 1/2 birch ply. No footballs and you can't tell it's plywood once it is up. I agree that it can be difficult to work with in tight spaces however it is quite stable once installed and really doesn't require alot of prep work. I know glue works well but I don't stake my reputation on it. I like solid wood blocking better.
J.P.
There is MDF beaded panel board too for paint quality work
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Since you brought up the alternative materials, The AZEK is the best choice for a bath that will be painted, but I think this poster is looking for the real wood for a varnish/clear finish. I have also done a lot in mahogany and fir 1x4 beaded that does not move as much as pine. I don't personally like pine 1x6 edge and center bead, when I can get 1x4 edge bead instead.
The reason is that the 1x6 pine will move more, and the break is every other bead, looking artificial. with 1x4, the break is on every bead equally. Also, when you are blind nailing intongues, there are more nails holding it in place to resist buckling.
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You can always use Interlux Brightside Primer to help prepare for the wood for the paint and to seal it against moisture. Interlux Brightside One Part Polyurethane paint has some of the benefits of a hard enamel. It also works to seal the wood against moisture and resists mildew as well. It's used for wooden boats. Works great on our bathroom windows.