So, standing in line at the grocery store, trying to keep two kids in one herd, I picked up TOH….what version / issue, I dunno.
THere’s an article in there on a “bathroom” designed for a “couple”, 682 sq ft. Separate everything. It’s really two rooms that share a shower. In the article, it is said they “lead separate and busy lives, but really love each other” or some sort of crap.
Say what? First off, 682 sq ft for a bathroom? Second, looking at it, they obviously don’t want much to do with each other. I can’t figure out people like this…..
Replies
I really don;t wanna have much to do with my wife when we're both in the bathroom either ...
Sometimes "sharing and intimacy" is over rated!
I'd love to have an extra 600+ sq ft for a luxery master bath ...
That'd be enough room for the big screen .....
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Skip the reading and watch the movie instead....
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I guess that says something about the demographic that the show and magazine are aimed at.
I am a little pleased that the "Ask This Old House" segment where they visit homes to do simple repairs is refreshing. It's a nice change of pace from the regular show where money is no object. On ATOH, I might actually learn about - or be reminded of - something I might actually do.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
That would be sweet. Hate to share with all that 'bathroom baggage' them femmes require.
Hey, I can make fun of TOH with the best of them though.
They take an old house, demo 95% of it, put a big addition on, etc. Lot's of fuss is made about the 'limited' 500k budget...
Then because they manage to save a couple of token old things, they call it restoration. Worse, they sometimes even use the term 'preservation'.
The 2 projects where they built new houses from scratch were much more honest.
But hey, I enjoy watchin' it.
I see all kinds of things on blueprints.
One of my favorites was a "his 'n hers" master bedroms. Both of them huge, and with their own bathrooms.
Hers was on the first floor and his was on the 2nd, directly above it. (Kinda sexist, her getting the first floor, isn't it?)
In the middle of the bedrooms there was a small spiral staircase connecting the 2 floors.
Maybe one of them snored real loud ???
If we weren't meant to eat animals, why are they made of meat?
"Kinda sexist, her getting the first floor, isn't it?) "
Men on top is the normal way of things isn't it?
[oh boy am I gonna catch it now!?!].
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge
FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where
Excellence is its own reward!
"Men on top is the normal way of things isn't it? "
Guess I asked for that one, didn't I ???Ever wonder what's wrong with people who spend $2 or more for a little bottle of Evian water? Spell Evian backwards.
Between your answer of how perfect you are in the other thread and how honest you are here, I'd consider you 'perfectly honest' (with maybe a penchant for living dangerously knowing some members of the fairer sex cruise these boards).
Some time ago I worked in a million$+ home which had the same setup going on with the separate bed/baths. The best thing about it was the guy had his own wall mount urinal. Now that's living!
must be nice...
My house is 830ft²...and that is pretty normal in this area of Seattle.
Well, here's the deal guys,
If you have the means, you can have what you want. And apologize to no one.
I have the means, and I mean to have what makes me comfortable. Quite frankly, its none of your d--- business.
But, since you are so absorbed by your client/magazines habits, I'll tell you about the thought process.
Perhaps your spouse is a neat freak, and you are a slob, or conversely.
Perhaps you can't stand the sight of unfolded towels, and your other drops them where they lie. Perhaps you are alergic to perfumes, scents, etc, and your other demands lotions, balms, and scents.
So, you build baths, which complement but do not mimic each other
Whose the Hell business is it except theirs.
For C----- sake, can't you build something which you can't personally afford without crapping on it. If you don't make enough to afford it, whose fault is that?
Is all economic activity in this world supposed to submit to YOUR level.
If I want gold plated fixtures and diamond encrusted watches and bidets and 20 burner wolf ranges, that is my business.
For gods sake, quite biting the hand that feeds you.
Stef
I'm still waiting for the kitchen remodel piece where niether husband or wife is an accomplished chef and they do not need an eighteen burner stove with separate saucepan burner and steam sink....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Ha! Open any magazine! But they get it all anyway!
And hey, why not! If it makes 'em happy to have a 12 burner range or a 1000 square foot bath with a coffered ceiling and lots of cool details and cool lighting, I am only too happy to design and build it.
It's fun, a nice challenge, and working for discerning clients sure beats working for someone who only cares about the bottom line and the deadline.
To each his own, but I do agree with Stef about biting the hand that feeds you!
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Edited 1/31/2004 2:10:05 AM ET by LATEAPEX911
Well....ya.
I suspect your hand wouldn't ever feed me with that attitude. If you don't care for the subject matter, I heard the Bush campaign might be looking for blue bloods with caustic attitudes to help George Dubya turn the corner in his effort at 'more honesty in politicking'. I think there's an opening in his speech writing staff for someone to write his Nobel acceptance speech. Just be sure you can sound all the words out for him and don't use multisyllabic words.
nice way to kill a good thread.
Sorry rez, not my intent. Just thought the horse was a little tall for my taste...
ya, didn't mean to come off sounding offensive.
Just another out of the blue political comment found outside the woodshed tavern that grew my horn a bit.
sorry man.
I just have issues with being told not to do something with the implication mentioned on her post. I've worked for plenty of wealthy clients without having my nose rubbed in it. But this one, as you put so well, sprouted a horn or two.
oh. oh!
So stef is a dame. Duh! I should have known that. Short for stephani. That explains everything then.
Hell, I'm really sorry now.
You so go brother. Rock on.
ROAR!
what is that? a bullet in my foot?
Edited 1/31/2004 8:47:40 AM ET by rez
I guess this thread is really about the economy, it must not be growing, first it was 20 burner stove, then 18, then 12, pretty soon it will be down to earth level. :)
Someone please pass out the prozac, or whatever chill pill of choice.
I understand your reaction and was tempted to post something about ethics, conservation, SUV's, etc., but felt it pobably belonged in the Tavern. There used to be something call Nobless Oblige (sp?) where the wealthy felt a responsibilty to help the less fortunate. Now the rich just think they got that way because they're smart and work hard and owe no thanks to the earth and fellow man.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Mostly they just got tired of being spit on by the poor - bite the hand that feeds you long enough and the hand goes somewhere else..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
You can have four bathrooms if that's what suits ya.
Seems like everyone is responding more to the economic connection on this subject but there is a long standing historical reason for separate locations for those personal duties.
All the way back into the dawn of written history, married people have had separate quarters in some way or another with some of the more celebrated philosophers and authors touting the romantic benefits in both parties coming together for more pleasureable and romantic pursuits.
Even in lower economic strata, I see this architectural feature more common in southern homes where the additional space is less expensive to build and to condition, heat or cold.
When necessary to have only one bathroom I try to design it so that a modicum of privacy is afforded to the sharing partners..
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge
FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where
Excellence is its own reward!
Now I have to write after scrolling down a little farther ...
what I was thinking right after reading your post ....
You sound like my kind of client..... Sign me up!
Now to refer to another thread ... don't worry about the quality ... that's my job.
You opinion only counts if my ideal is less then yours!
Thinking we'd work well together ... screw the nonbelievers.
You got money ... I like money .... perfect fit.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Maybe it feeds the trades, but conspicuous consumption does not create respect for the hand. Bite.
Can the rest of the world afford it? How much real estate would be covered if each of the six billion of us on the planet had 600' to bathe and poop?
Less is more, small is beautiful.
Bill
Hyampom,
I think Stef did come on a little strongly, but I also think she misinterpreted the intent of the posters before her. I do not understand why you really could need 600 ft² for a toilet, sink and shower. I make do very well 50ft². But, I have no bones if someone wants to build a big bathroom. If I had money, I would love to have a 6000 ft² shop/garage. That's more than I need and the people with big bathrooms probably wouldn't understand, but what's it matter?
"Less is more, small is beautiful."
Great. Sometimes, I think less is less, and big is beautiful. Ever seen pics of the Biltmore in Asheville, NC? I went there once and would love to go back. It's HUGE and beautiful. What's wrong with conspicuous consumption? Resources are to be used, that's why we have them! Even better if I can make a buck off of their use.
Just out of curiousity, how big is your bathroom/house?
Jon Blakemore
Exactly. Big houses that are done right are beautiful. Like my post, I have no problem if I can afford the largest kitchen with all of thebells and whistles (I'm sure my wife and the tradesmen will too). I just get a kick out of every couple in these articles are accomplished chefs. I would like to write one when we do our kitchen...Amy, a pretty good cook, and her husband Jeff, known to boil water and make a mean PBJ......that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Because that would be inconsistent with remodeling a bigger/fancier kitchen and inconsistent with the more common profile of successful people (sure, some can't cook; but would they do the remodel and be interesting to feature in a magazine ?).
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
We're in the middle of a remodel. Current bath (to be demo-ed) is 40 sf.
Two baths and sauna addition are 208' sf combined. 2 children, 2 adults.
Total footprint is 1536'. No Biltmore, but comfortable, and large enough for four people.
The Biltmore is a public space and as such, should be big. I happen to think owning or building a personal Parthenon, (Mac mansions, or starter castles, as they are referred to here), though it may be that person's own choice, does not necessarily make it immune to criticism.
Bill
Bill,
"The Biltmore is a public space and as such, should be big."
It is a public space now, but the original intent was solely for personal pleasure.
"I happen to think owning or building a personal Parthenon, (Mac mansions, or starter castles, as they are referred to here), though it may be that person's own choice, does not necessarily make it immune to criticism."
Well, nobody is immune to criticism. Anybody can criticize, whether there is merit in their point or not. I don't see how a big house makes you a target. If the walls a covered with California Condor feathers, and the sinks are all ivory, then I might agree with you. But open space? Do you know that North America has a higher concentration of wilderness than Africa? I don't see how a large lot of big footprint is unconscionable.
BTW- You told me the footprint of your house but not the ft².
Jon Blakemore
Hey guys,
Easy, my point was that everyone has a right to their own opinion of what is right, good and beautiful. Form follows function. Just because one has the means to build a castle doesn't mean the rest of the world has to like it or stay silent about it.
Maybe Stef and her spouse are so busy, sloppy/ neat or hugely obese they must have their own acre of bathroom.
I'll build it for her, too. But I don't have to like it, or keep quiet about it if I don't. All the money in the world won't buy taste, or time.
And if she doesn't like the criticism, she has the freedom to disagree, and maybe even fire me. Or civilly discuss to relative merits of size, proportion, aesthetics. And show some of that noblesse oblige to the serfs.
And I am inclined to think resources are finite and we are on a crash course that ever bigger houses won't help avert.
But what do I know?
Bill
"noblesse oblige"
Now there's a concept that seems to have fallen completely out of fashion with the new rich.....
Bob
new rich.....
You ever work around the "old rich"?
I have ... pretty much no difference ...
OK .. the "old rich" are usually have messier homes.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I've worked for both- I find the new rich are willing to spend more money, but they piss and moan about every little thing. They also don't get the big picture- I've built $500,000, 6,000 SF homes for knuckleheads in Las Vegas, who sold their bungalows in CA for $500k- they'd shoot the whole wad on the house, and nine months later when you went back for a warranty issue, they had a 4-seat dinette set in a dining room built to seat 20. They weren't smart enough to realize that you need to FURNISH all that square footage. We used to call them "white trash rich".
The old rich I've worked for were much smarter- they were more cautious with their money, would build 4,000 SF even though they could afford more, and furnish the place to the nines- I think some of them spent more on furnishings than on the house.
Bob
I've found the old rich more inbred and much dumber.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
new rich.....
You ever work around the "old rich"?
Been there both ways. The real question, for me at least, winds up being "stingy" rich or being non-stingy rich. The folks that offend me most are those who want all the appearance of wealth, but want it on the cheap (with the "contractor's discount" we beat to death in a different thread). They have a cheap (not elegant) floor plan; lowest bidder framing, and all the flashy trashy stuff they can have on the cheap. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it looks good.
So, their 24 x 32 show kitchen will have everything. A grey-market knockoff of a commercial stove, that's installed like it's zero-clearance (an option that was not paid for). But it won't matter as no one in the house actually cooks (the hood is a recirculating unit, cause the plans did not allow for a vent--it was cheaper that way).
Now, the guy who is rich because he started with one laundromat, and now has 8 or 9. That guy can be sold value. That's because he knows what value is. He may have a quirky house. Might even be strange to some of us. But, there's a better chance that it has been designed that way. Meaning thought out; the intersection of trades & work considered and planned for--that kind of design. There's the sort of customer we should all hope for. Even if they have 600 sf tied up in the bathroom (they probably wouldn't--but better them than the bozo who won't pay the painter to prime the job . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'd like to offer all (with a single exception) who posted on this thread an apology for my out of place remarks. I recognized after the fact, my comments would have been better suited for the Tavern than here. My feelings toward the single poster haven't changed but out of respect for the rest of you, once again, I apologize for the disruption to a good thread.
Aw shucks Homewright, 'taint nothing that never happened here before.
Do appreciate your approach to forum decorum. Maybe some other folks who post on BT might take some lessons from you.
As for Stef she's a big girl and been around these parts long enough to be a veteran that can handle herself. And Piffin, well, he's piffin and can sling a six-gun with the best if he saw fit.
And as for me, hey, this is an ok thread. Keep it coming!
Cheers.
Thanks rez. Pondered most of the weekend on whether to do this and feel better for having at least acknowledged my faux pas. I've never been a politically correct tongue biter so I say it when I need to. Just figured since I spend time on the TOH forum as well as here that sometimes the hard truth is a good thing to be heard.
Total footprint is 1536'.
I've just decided that I think that's too big.
Tear it down.
It's bigger than my house.
You are using valuable resources that could help build mud huts in East Ka-Bum.....
Why I have several friends that live in poverty conditions in Jamaica ...
You better do the right thing and send off half of your posessions to them immediately.
I've decided you have too much stuff ... therefore ... it must be true.
I've been reading thru this thread ... and obviously people can't decide for themselves "How Much" is the right amount.
It appears others can make those decisions for you ... and I have.
Thank you for your cooperation.
The Management.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Edited 2/1/2004 3:52:35 PM ET by Jeff J. Buck
Come on Jeff,
It's already been consumed. There's no point in a tear down. I propose that Bill splits his extra space evenly between you and I. That will prevent further consumption on our part, and Bill still gets a taste of his own medicine.
Thanks for giving me the idea.
Jon Blakemore
"Resources are to be used, that's why we have them!"
Only one problem with that statement- if we keep using them, eventually there will be none left to use. Last I checked, there wasn't any "new" oil, iron ore, granite, etc., being created.
Bob
Well, not too many of us can afford that large a bathroom, but having a his and a her's is very common (usually the man gets the onsuite while the woman gets the main bathroom - but that can change with children). It's really a matter of practicality if you both have to go to work about the same time which requires you both have to shower/etc. about the same time. Other options include one or both partners to go to the gym early and shower there; or, a spa in the basement that doubles as one partner's morning bathroom.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Well, the purpose of any magazine is to raise revenue, mostly by selling advertising. Advertisers need to make money, and this is best done by selling items with a higher margin. Most people usually only buy one of something, so you make more selling them that one item at twice the price. What is happening with houses is the same as with cars, TV, etc. Look at the cover of a car and driver sometime. They review the new super SUV or luxury sports sedan rather than the Escort or Camry that the majority of their readers might actually buy. Why, because this makes the reader feel insecure, so they will buy a better car than they might otherwise based on their needs.*
I think magazines reflect more of what the advertisers want to see promoted rather than what the reader needs to see. Sure, 684 sq ft is absurd, but that might just inspire someone to increase their bathroom from 100 to 150 sq ft and buy better fixtures.
If separate everything is a reflection of their relationship, then I feel sorry for them. Maybe they are trying to express outward what is missing on the inside. I have noticed a trend amongst the parents of my friends to actually move out and buy a bigger/nicer house than the one they had while raising the kids. Sure, I can see a correlation with having more money later in life, but I suspect alot of it also has to do with being able to get as far as H%#& away from their spouse but still be under the same roof. Of course, this is from a guy who has a garage full of tools and a wife with a whole room dedicated to beading, but we do share the home office and bathroom.
* A survey was done a number of years ago, and it was found that the people with the highest net worth were those who actually lived modestly. They somehow resisted the temptations put forth by advertisers to spend every cent on luxury items. Most drove a standard car that was about 3-4 years old. That commercial on TV about the guy who has everything, and is in debt up to his ears, is unfortunately more true than not.
I think magazines reflect more of what the advertisers want to see promoted rather than what the reader needs to see. Sure, 684 sq ft is absurd, but that might just inspire someone to increase their bathroom from 100 to 150 sq ft and buy better fixtures.
Maybe most. Probably most. But none that are published by Taunton.
Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
Andy:
I tend to believe what you say (for FHB anyway, I don't often read the others). I never notice any evidence that articles are structured to feature specific products. In fact, there are times when I wish some products used in the projects described were more readily identifiable so I could use them myself. As your format evolves, I hope it stays this way. I'm really getting sick of the trend in America that everything is for sale and everything has an advertising tie-in. I like to feel that FHB still puts a value on integrity.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Thanks Al.Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
I can't figure out why people do half the stuff they do but I've gotten old enough not to care. These people sound like my kind of client. They want a big house with all the frills and don't care what they spend. I pray for customers like them every night! Where is the downside? They get what they want which makes them happy. I get to make lots of money. My subs make lots of money. The suppliers make money. They pay huge amounts of property tax which is good for the county and schools.
About 10 years ago I trimmed a 7000 square foot waterfront house for a nice couple. He owned a restaurant and had worked a 90 to 100 hour week for 18 years. I figured that they had earned whatever they wanted and made sure I gave it to them. The master bath was over 900 square feet with two of everything. The 4 car garage had 17 foot ceilings. I kept asking him why and he kept telling me to wait and see. Toward the end of the job he drove up, opened the trunk and pulled out a basketball goal. I installed it on the end wall so he could shoot hoops late at night or in the rain. He worked such long and hard hours that he wanted to be able to shoot a few balls and relax whenever he wanted without bothering the neighbors.
They paid every bill on time and sometimes forced money on me when I hadn't asked for it. Sure wish they would build a new house, maybe 10 or 12,000 square feet next time.