Ok, this might sound a little silly, but what do you fellows use in place of batter boards in rocky soil? I’ve got a couple projects coming up, and all the books/info I have show driving soft wood (probably pine) wood stakes into nice dark rich loam soil, and nailing the 1×4 batter board to those. Same goes for the classic 1x or 2x bracing for posts, etc.
Unfortunately, reality in my neck of the woods is that the ground is largely rocks chinked w/ clay and dirt (and smaller rocks). At least thats what it seems like when I have to dig in it. Driving a steel T-post can be entertaining (if you are a masochist), and hand digging a post hole involves a 6′ wrecking bar to loosen the rocks and a hand trowel to dig out the dirt from in btwn.
Odds of driving a pine stake into the ground is nil. Heck, I can’t even push in the stake on a lawn sprinkler in this stuff.
So what do you guys (professionals or just experienced DIY’ers) that have to live/deal w/ this kind of ground use?
Thanks,
Monte
Replies
How about some rebar cut into appropiate lenghts as stakes then use 2-hole clamps
to attach the batter boards to the rebar?
Both ideas sound good! I'd been eye-balling some rebar I have left in my shop; just hadn't came up w/ a good way to make it work w/ the boards. The weighted bases might work even better (no hammering thru/around rocks). The first up and coming project is laying out and pouring new footings for rebuilding the deck. I'm hoping to be able to have as many of the piers formed and ready to pour in one whack as possible.
Thanks,
Monte
a right angle laser and an occasional steel pin drilled into the rock ledge. Once footings are in, then it is not hard to drive nails into the soft crete.
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Purchase some steel form stakes. Drive them in , and nail your 1x4 to them with 8d duplex nail.
I use a transit with an optical plum or plum bob over the first corner and pin it as piffen suggest. Same thing can be done with a level, sighting pole, and a 4' level.
I make sure to set batter boards back far enough that the backhoe doesn't hit them. I also shoot a bench mark some distance away, so i don't have to refigure my elevations every day.
Dave
The steel fence posts that are so hard to drive in will give you more rigidity than rebar or form stakes, IMO. I belive you can rent hydraulic post drivers.
Milanuk said he had trouble driving steel T-post, that is why I figured form stakes would be easier.
Figure if he is pulling string lines for layout, he only needs to pull them tight enough to keep from blowing around. Pin his corners and spray paint his cut or trench line.
Form stakes are easier to pull up by a sight over T-post. I knock them back and forth a couple of times and give them a twist and lift with a 18 or 24" pipe wrench. I have never taken the time to build a T-post jack however, so that may be easier.
Dave
This is where youre hammer only function of your hammer drill comes in. Get some form stakes and get the ground rod adapter and just let the machine do the work.
The problem w/ driving metal stakes, assuming I have the same issues w/ them as say a T-post, is you get in about 2-6", hit a rock, the darn thing rotates around (not what I want w/ a T-post) until it finds a way down around the first rock, goes a little further, then hits another, rotates some more, etc. Gets real interesting when it gets in far enough that the 'fins' engage, and won't let it rotate anymore. Progress seems to grind to a halt.
As far as a T-Post jack... I've got a little doohickey (technical description) that fits over the lip of a handy-man jack to yank them out. Works pretty slick.
Not sure about the steel form stakes... didn't know they made them for attaching batter boards to. All I'd seen was the solid steel stakes w/ no holes in them.
Marking the exact hole location isn't an issue here, in a sense. For a 2 foot deep hole, I'll probably end up w/ something looking like a 3 or 4 foot shell crater. Precision it's not. But when I get to the point of locating, placing, and bracing the concrete footing tubes, I want to make sure they don't move around once I have them where I want them. The weighted board forms, or the hammer-drill for making a hole might be the only workable ways to get this done (on the scale I'm working w/, i.e. one time home owner not looking for too much fancy hardware).
Thanks,
Monte
There are two different types of steel stake forms. You want the solid steel posts. They are about 3/4" in diameter and come in several lengths. There are nailing holes all around the upper portions, 8d nails are usually used. Go to a concrete accessory supply house, no one else has them, also do not buy the cheaper extruded steel ones. These are for one use only and will bend in rocky soil. The solid ones will split rocks , takes a lot to bend them but they can be straightened again.I still have 16 stakes from 1964, use them once in awhile now,mostly for tossing horseshoes.
mike