FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

batter board substitute?

milanuk | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 7, 2004 11:43am

Ok, this might sound a little silly, but what do you fellows use in place of batter boards in rocky soil? I’ve got a couple projects coming up, and all the books/info I have show driving soft wood (probably pine) wood stakes into nice dark rich loam soil, and nailing the 1×4 batter board to those. Same goes for the classic 1x or 2x bracing for posts, etc.

Unfortunately, reality in my neck of the woods is that the ground is largely rocks chinked w/ clay and dirt (and smaller rocks). At least thats what it seems like when I have to dig in it. Driving a steel T-post can be entertaining (if you are a masochist), and hand digging a post hole involves a 6′ wrecking bar to loosen the rocks and a hand trowel to dig out the dirt from in btwn.

Odds of driving a pine stake into the ground is nil. Heck, I can’t even push in the stake on a lawn sprinkler in this stuff.

So what do you guys (professionals or just experienced DIY’ers) that have to live/deal w/ this kind of ground use?

Thanks,

Monte

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. butch | Apr 07, 2004 12:53pm | #1

    How about some rebar cut into appropiate lenghts as stakes then use 2-hole clamps

    to attach the batter boards to the rebar?

    1. milanuk | Apr 07, 2004 04:24pm | #2

      Both ideas sound good! I'd been eye-balling some rebar I have left in my shop; just hadn't came up w/ a good way to make it work w/ the boards. The weighted bases might work even better (no hammering thru/around rocks). The first up and coming project is laying out and pouring new footings for rebuilding the deck. I'm hoping to be able to have as many of the piers formed and ready to pour in one whack as possible.

      Thanks,

      Monte

  2. Piffin | Apr 08, 2004 11:52am | #3

    a right angle laser and an occasional steel pin drilled into the rock ledge. Once footings are in, then it is not hard to drive nails into the soft crete.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  3. DaveRicheson | Apr 08, 2004 01:26pm | #4

    Purchase some steel form stakes. Drive them in , and nail your 1x4 to them with 8d duplex nail.

    I use a transit with an optical plum  or plum bob over the first corner and pin it as piffen suggest. Same thing can be done with a level, sighting pole, and a 4' level.

    I make sure to set batter boards back far enough that the backhoe doesn't hit them. I also shoot a bench mark some distance away, so i don't have to refigure my elevations every day.

    Dave

    1. UncleDunc | Apr 08, 2004 06:52pm | #5

      The steel fence posts that are so hard to drive in will give you more rigidity than rebar or form stakes, IMO. I belive you can rent hydraulic post drivers.

      1. DaveRicheson | Apr 08, 2004 10:32pm | #6

        Milanuk said he had trouble driving steel T-post, that is why I figured form stakes would be easier.

        Figure if he is pulling string lines for layout, he only needs to pull them tight enough to keep from blowing around.  Pin his corners and spray paint his cut or trench line.

         Form stakes are easier to pull up by a sight over T-post. I knock them back and forth a couple of times and give them a twist and lift with a 18 or 24" pipe wrench. I have never taken the time to build a T-post jack however, so that may be easier.

        Dave

        1. bill_1010 | Apr 09, 2004 02:00am | #7

          This is where youre hammer only function of your hammer drill comes in.  Get some form stakes and get the ground rod adapter and just let the machine do the work.

        2. milanuk | Apr 09, 2004 05:11am | #8

          The problem w/ driving metal stakes, assuming I have the same issues w/ them as say a T-post, is you get in about 2-6", hit a rock, the darn thing rotates around (not what I want w/ a T-post) until it finds a way down around the first rock, goes a little further, then hits another, rotates some more, etc. Gets real interesting when it gets in far enough that the 'fins' engage, and won't let it rotate anymore. Progress seems to grind to a halt.

          As far as a T-Post jack... I've got a little doohickey (technical description) that fits over the lip of a handy-man jack to yank them out. Works pretty slick.

          Not sure about the steel form stakes... didn't know they made them for attaching batter boards to. All I'd seen was the solid steel stakes w/ no holes in them.

          Marking the exact hole location isn't an issue here, in a sense. For a 2 foot deep hole, I'll probably end up w/ something looking like a 3 or 4 foot shell crater. Precision it's not. But when I get to the point of locating, placing, and bracing the concrete footing tubes, I want to make sure they don't move around once I have them where I want them. The weighted board forms, or the hammer-drill for making a hole might be the only workable ways to get this done (on the scale I'm working w/, i.e. one time home owner not looking for too much fancy hardware).

          Thanks,

          Monte

          1. mike4244 | Apr 09, 2004 05:41am | #9

            There are two different types of steel stake forms. You want the solid steel posts. They are about 3/4" in diameter and come in several lengths. There are nailing holes all around the upper portions, 8d nails are usually used. Go to a concrete accessory supply house, no one else has them, also do not buy the cheaper extruded steel ones. These are for one use only and will bend  in rocky soil. The solid ones will split rocks , takes a lot to bend them but they can be straightened again.I still have 16 stakes from 1964, use them once in awhile now,mostly for tossing horseshoes.

            mike

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Vintage Sash Windows Get an Energy-Efficient Upgrade

Low-e storm panels improve the energy efficiency of these old sash windows without changing their classic look.

Featured Video

Micro-Adjust Deck-Baluster Spacing for an Eye-Deceiving Layout

No math, no measuring—just a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing.

Related Stories

  • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • A Drip-Free, Through-Window Heat Pump
  • Insulation for Homes in the Wildland Urban Interface
  • An Impressive Air-to-Water Heat Pump

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Old House Journal – August 2025
    • Designing the Perfect Garden Gate
    • Old House Air-Sealing Basics
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data