Got asked some months ago to quote on a major bathroom/laundry refit.
Fella is a doctor, told me what he wanted, said he wanted top quality etc.
I told him I could deliver, but quality takes time, it all costs. He said no problem.
Sent plumber,electrician,drainage guy around to look as job was complicated. Quote came in at 28k
Got a call a little while later, said he was thinking of extending the house instead. I went round again, looked some more, gave advice/info.
Laundry aspect got deleted cos that was the side to get “extended”.
Submitted new quote.
More dithering, then got asked to quote on bathroom only as now they were going to sell and move to bigger house. Nother trip out, more talking/looking.
Submitted yet another quote……..14k.
Got a call 24 hours later…………….whole deal is scrapped. They want ultra cheap redo, will do it themselves. Thanks a lot, but no thanks.
Bottom line for me, I spent a lot of my time, subs time for nothing. I am happy NOT to be doing the work cos I now reckon the fella be an eegit. Saved me from a screwing further along the line.
I however am pretty annoyed with myself for allowing this to happen. Shoulda told him to stick it long ago and stop wasting my time.
I try to “qualify” potential customers by giving a ballpark right off and see how they react. Had one recently who I havent heard back from and I cant get hold of. Pretty obvious I wont be doing the work. Just burns my chops that they are on the phone pronto when THEY want me to look at the job and give a price, but suddenly all their fingers are busted when it come time to call and have the manners to say no thanks.
Lesson learned.
Just a wee rant. Hate being messed around.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Replies
you should treat yourself to a box of 'Tim Tam', a glass of milk, and a day fishin'...
screw the bastid's....
A day fishin'.
Funny that, was thinking the same thing.
What makes me chuckle is he told me what he paid for the house bout 8 months ago. The market was smoking hot then.
Last month sales dropped 20% for that one month. Boy is he gonna lose some money. Whatcha get for being a tightwad and clueless I suppose.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
You think about it... It's a good thought... soooooooooo,
I just got in from there.. Trout for breakfast...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
There have been several threads on this topic over the past few months. Many of us are trying to get out of the business of giving "free" estimates. Some (eg Mike Smith) have succeeded.
My current thinking is, for new customers I have not worked for before, to give a reasonable "estimate" before making drawings, dragging out subs and getting into detailed permit issues with the Town. If the customer is still interested, I will indicate that there will be a small fee for a detailed proposal whether they hire me or not.
I haven't actually pulled this off yet, but after getting burned in a way similar to your situation earlier this year, I've been giving it a lot of thought. Most of my work comes from repeat customers that I trust. It's with new people that I sometimes get burned.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
I haven't tried this, but what about charging for an estimate with the proviso that if you end up doing the work, the fee for the estimate will be waived or discounted or subtracted from the cost of the job? Just a thought.
I dont think I could charge for a quote here. There is nobody i know of who does so it could put me in a precarious postion.
Also business is just starting to hit the point where I am getting a lot of referrals. Wouldnt want to put a crimp in that.
However, next time I encounter another such eegit, they will get the normal one time free quote. Followed by a phone call to see what they thought of it.
If a go, then fine, I got it at my price, if no....thems the breaks.
If eegit wants a rethink/requote on a change of mind/new idea THEN I will ask for a fee or no way.
To my thinking if they balk at the fee it means I avoided a screwing later. If the fee is paid they are serious, I get covered for time invested.
I am more irritated with myself for giving the fool enough slack to do this. Shoulda kept a tight leash on him from the start. Everyday I learn something else. :-)
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Now I understand why when several years ago I asked for a price to put one of those floor perimeter dry basement systems the guy never got back to me when I asked, "What if we...." proposing alternatives to save a little money. Where does it end? Here's the product, kind of an "as is" proposition. So far I haven't been on the receiving end--just clients who schedule a block of time for a project and then back out when the time comes. Guess it amounts to the same thing; wasted time.
I have recently begun an approach to charging for estimates. I put together a price book 3 pages long. If I cant give you a price working out of this book in less than 10 minutes it means we need a design agreement worth at least 2% of the proposed project cost. So far it works. Sold 1 job so far $100,000 second story addition. Had 1 job fall through, customer flaked out, didnt want to spend the money. Either way I win. Just think how many customers have you dealt with that you gave an estimate to that were just using you for thier entertainment, bored housewives, the elderly.
Yeah, I think it would discourage "shoppers", plus, it shows that you value your time. I teach Tai Chi (Taiji) and found that if I charge too little for lessons, people don't value the classes. When I worked for a county, they gave away cheese (some stupid Federal gov't program when surplusses got too large) and people who were elegible for free cheese would get it even if they didn't like cheese! Part of my job entailed running a housing complex for elderly and they were always giving their free cheese away. (Not to me, I will add; I wasn't allowed to accept gifts--though I did take a bottle of Ezbak Uralt (sp?) that a lady brought me from a visit to her native germany. She often came into my office to chat--starting in highly accented English and ending up mostly in German. When I said I couldn't accept the liquor, she actually got tears in her eyes, so I said I'd make an exception. Another funny note was that her income consisted of a pension from Germany; when she applied for an apartment, I had to ask the bank what the exchange rate was to convert Deutchmarks into dollars.)
Mojo, if you want a professional way (one way, anyway) to get paid for Proposals, email me. Several years ago I created a document I call "The Process." It was a 4 pager then. Since then I've revised it several times and it's now about 13 pages. I"m also in the process of creating one for small remodels and repair jobs.
It's purpose was several:
1. To advise customers of the importance of timely payouts.
2. What is involved in The Process of remodeling.
3. Why we charge for Proposals, but I changed it to SCA - Specification and Cost Analysis, which is really what it is. I wanted to get away of the typical term Proposal or Estimate.
At the 1st meeting we always at least gave them a ball park price. If they decided to go ahead from there we left with a check for creating the SCA and putting them on our schedule. No credit for the SCA charge if we got the job, otherwise we would have spend all of that time for nothing anyway. IMO, when acting as a Construction Consultant, Estimating Consultant or Design Consultant such as suggesting ideas, we should get paid for that expertise it takes years to develop - not give it away.
The incident that finally made me decide to respect my expertise occurred years ago was when I got charged $143 by a dealership for n "Electrical Diagnostic " fee due to an electronic computer malfunction - and I had to take my "problem" to them, have my wife follow me, than drive me back to pick it up. The computer part - and it installation labor was another $250 or so. Realized I was being a fool all those years. Ever hear of a dealership going bankrupt? Time is money - period, and expertise is even more money. Granted that machine they used probably cost them $10K, but my "machine" is "up here" and cost me big money over the years to learn, and continue to learn.
Anyway, I wanted to address most of the complaints contractors have with customers. Many contractors have modified it for their own operations and personality.
It is to be sent to the potential customer so they could read it before the first sales meeting, so it want out the same day they called. This way, it also acts as a tactic to qualify people. Then before you meet, you call them back to reaffirm the appointment. If after reading The Process they cancel the appt., you just saved a lot of time. It's especially good for those with lots of incoming calls. You can include photos of past jobs, a company brochure, etc., along with TP.
I use a Mac and created it on the old ClarisWorks, now AppleWorks, so I've converted it to a pdf file. Converting it to Word screws up the format. Also, I've have wide left margins on each page should someone want to use or insert graphics there.
Anyway, let me know if you want a copy.
Sonny,
I've got the 12 pager and am really impressed, both by the SCA itself and your sharing it with us.
Can you attach the new one or a link to it? :>) :>) :>)
SamT
Sam, I just made a few modifications to the current one. I'll email it to you.
i think we all would like a copy
Who ever wants a copy has to email be because if I email you using FHBing email softwareI can't put an "attachement" on it, but I can via "Reply" to yours.
Edited 8/29/2004 12:27 pm ET by Sonny Lykos
Charging for estimates?
My wife is a landscape designer...just design, nothing to do with installations, except to act as "supervising" of contractors if the HO wants that. Everything is done at an hourly charge, plus copy/printing expenses.
She tells people right off the bat, before she goes out, that the initial "consultation" is gonna be 1 hour at 60 bucks. Whether or not they sign up. If that's all the HO wants or needs, she gives them a few ideas, but nothing in the way of a concrete design. So they do get something for their money.
If they want a complete design, she leaves them with a contract that only takes effect if they pay a retainer that covers at least the first few hours of design work, drawing, etc.
Burned too often with people trying to pick her brains for ideas that never do sign the contract. If they get p-o'd at her approach, that's fine, who'd want them as a client anyway....
Steve
Lesson learned.
Hope so. Next time it's totally your fault.
My policy is one free ballpark estimate/customer. Current project, demolition of a large pole barn, worked out just fine that way. Anything further is either "consulting" or "designing", both with attendant fee structure.
Recently a lady called with unknown-to-me referral asking that I go out to quote her on custom louvered shutters. That was one who didn't even get the free ballpark estimate. Brief phone conversation revealed that she needed low end. Happens that I have a fair selection of decent shape shutters and all she needed to do was tell me the size. No, I'm not coming out to measure. Haven't heard from her and don't particularly expect to.
After awhile you get better at recognizing the flakes. Or get frustrated and let your employer deal with them. Good luck.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Rule #1
A homeowner rarely knows what they want. That's cool... but you need to always be aware of it. An average HO will change his/her mind at least twice.
Rule #2
Doctors, CPAs, other professional types (excluding lawyers) are much worse at knowing what they want, on norm. They normally will change their mind on average 3-4 times. Sometimes, as many as 6-8 times.
Rule #3
Lawyers who are homeowners. They DEFINITELY don't know what they want, on norm. They will change their mind before the project, during the project, after the project and will make up 15 other milestones at which they can change their mind. They also are very forgetful about what they told yo to do.... so be sure to write it up at the time they tell you. (would you guess that I am dealing with two attorneys.. separate projects... that are changing things daily? LOL)
Rule #4
If you find a HO that doesn't change their mind... hug them daily as you show up on the job. They are rare.
Rule #5
Listen to what HO wants, then bid it. When asked for suggestions, offer to design project; but it costs to do so.
Rule #6
When you don't remember the above rules... Chevis works well to dull the senses as you mope about it !!
Haahaahaa, nice set of rules.
Only almost every one of my customers knows what they want in advance. I get asked to quote on firm choices, or, get asked to make suggestions on the first visit.
I then quote on what gets decided in that first half hour.
Changes to the quoted "specs" are so rare that the eegit is the only one to do it.
Every step it was "what about this?"........followed by "What will that cost?"
Then a change of mind that funnily enough was a significant downsize of the job with lots of "Was thinking about this....."
That should have been my que to split. Never worked for a lawyer. Last doctor I did work for knew exactly what he wanted.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Heh, I am surprised not more homeowners are responding to this. I am a homeowner and only do cosmetic renovations in my home.
I do understand the value of people's time and when a trade professional tells me up front there is a charge for an estimate i do not mind much. However how is a HO supposed to gauge the value / going rate if he/she does not get mutliple estimates?
Also for a estimate to be meaningful, it has to be doen fairly well and professionally. I have had an estimate given to me on basically a scrap peace of paper. This after talking to me about that particular project and then taking a couple of days to write it up. From that it still wasn't clear what exactly was going to be done, since we had talked about several options. Should be pretty easy to say option 1 estimate is $x and option 2 is $y.
I am having someone come and install kitchen cabinets - he came out and spent at least an hour to do some measuring and talking to us to feel us out on what we wanted. Got an estimate, also on plain paper but it made clear what the estimate was on the 3 parts ( cabinets, labor, and countertops ) And there where estimates on options. Awesome. However the cabinet plan didnt look correct, and I discovered a discrepancy, that put in a kink in the plan. Due to a miscommunication a measurement was taken short, but he came out and reverified the measurements and adjusted the plan. For free, even though he spent about 45 minutes going through everything again.
I am sure i am paying it in the cabinets, even though they are not a particulalry high end line. labor was on flat fee, so there probbaly is wiggle room there too.
All in all i think homowners won't balk too much at paying for an estimate as long as it is explained up front and more so if the fee then is applied towards the project cost if a contractor gets the job.
My quotes are always printed out, in a folder and include product data from the manufacturers so the customer knows exactly what is being used, what i have allowed for.......everything. ( Thank you Sonny )
I did this 3 times for the eegit. I booked in all the subs well in advance, now have to cancel them. Fortunately as they are all very busy they dont get left with a gap in their planning.
I have a week set aside, but also have plenty of other stuff to fill it.
If I ever got a quote scrawled on a scrap of paper i wouldnt use that person. It doesnt fill a fella with confidence.
He should have had a little more respect for my time, I should have had the sense to see this coming and put the brakes on it. Like I said........lesson learned.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Mark: "However how is a HO supposed to gauge the value / going rate if he/she does not get mutliple estimates?"
You can get a hamburger at Wendy's for $1.00 but the same hamburger at a family restaurant is $4,00
What's the difference?
You can buy a cotton button down short sleeve dress shirt at Wal-Mart for $12 or Penny's for $20.
What's the difference?
My own Customers can hire my comnpetitors from between $25/hr to about $55/hr, yet they prefer to hire me at $85 plus per hr.
Wha'ts the difference.
The going rate means nothing, absolutely nothing, because you are not comparing prices of certain model of a GE refrigerator "that has already been built." You are buying a reputation, a promise, a Brand name - if you hire someone who come highly recommended so his promise is pretty warranteed to be "reality" after you sign on the dotted line.
Finally, you are not buying price, are you? If the house is left filthy, nothing is protected, lousy workmanship, terrible communication, installed a wood front door jamb with that prehung door as opposed to a plastic jamb, doesn't warranty his work (says he does) , a guy who looks like he just crawled from under a rock, works Monday and Tuesday and then doesn't show up again until next week, and no phone calls and you can't get him - please tell me, how important is that price now?
It's now too late isn't it.
The guy that cuts my grass is not the cheapest guy in town, but he takes care of anything else that need to be done while he's here nd just add it to my monthly Invoice.
In Michigan I had 26 employees so we had a lot of vehicles. I started having a "reasonable" mechanic service all of our vehicles. Then occasionally a belt or radiator hose would go out on the way to a job or back to our office/warehouse.
I switched to another mechanic who had the brains and "service" to automatically check those items even though he had it only to do a tune up. His prices were about 20% higher than most of the other mechanics. So how much money did the original guy save me when I had lost "income" time during those stupid, nonsensical vehicle down time problems?
I can have my hair cut for $8, but I glady pay $12, plus a $3 tip. Why?
My wife can get a perm for $40 but opts to go where it cost her about $80, and we have places that charge $160 - and are constantly loaded with customers. Why?
Again, going rates mean nothing! And the mean nothing after you ask yourself: Going rate for what?
Wow that almost seems liek an attack. Well you have a point. But one has to have a starting point to be able to compare services.
Reputation is not always easy to assess - not without a lot of time spent by us the home owner ( or the purchaser of any service ). So in a sense you make the point that it is not easy being in the shoes of a purchaser of services - wether homeowner or otherwise. Not sure why you diverged on this topic from the original point.
Nowhere did i say I take the low bid - i try to gauge the person I talk to in order to determine some fo the factors you mention. Getting a sense of the person and job they are capable is not always easy either. Unfortunately some of the bigges BS artists are suave and come across as the more "likeable".
Even with your attitude you seem to have been disappointed by the level of service you received. Luckily for you that was for something relatively low cost - compared to having someone screw up a bathroom a malfunctining radiator hose or belt is minor.
Not sure why you focused on the "going rate" portion of the sentence. The only way i know to judge value is to talk to people and get estimates. As a consumer of services I will have to make a judgement call between what the service provider says and what he tells me he will use. As i said, I do not automatically go lowest bid - never have actually. I had some plumbing work done about a year ago. one estimate was roughly $300 the other one was will be $950. I took the $950 quote. Would the $300 bid have done the job as well? I will never know. I might have been taken to the cleaners since i only had 2 quotes.
Ok, now just to be mean and get dirty back... If your vehicles suffer belt failures and hose failures that frequently, then i think you didnt do your homework and got the wrong brand of vehicle. You should have chosen one of better quality. Or was there another reason as to why you chose less than the top of the line vehicles?
I also think it is fallacious to always equate higher rates with better quality.
The vehicles we all new when we bought them, and routinely maintained during and after the warranties were gone.
The biggest problem with consumers of remodeling, house building and major repairs, heck, even small repairs, is this. They are used to, and trained so to speak to make these purchases as they do with 99% of their other purchases - retail, where they can easily compare one retailer to another, but about the exact same "product." I guess we can call it unintentional "conditioning."
Unfortunately, that will never work when buying major services, and the three things I mentioned above are really services. And because the building or the products we sell is a conglomeration of all of the "services" (subs, etc.), and the caliber of those services that determine the quality of the final product, be it a house, remodeled kitchen or roof repair.
On the big money items such as a new house or large remodel it's mandated to do a lot of research before making a final decision upon which contractor to hire. Rarely does the public put that much effort into the researching. And that is the main reason why such horror stories abound, and/or as well as the fact that unlike your wisdom, most, and by most I mean over 90% of these purchases are made based upon price, first.
The mistake most, and I mean most, contractors make is create their estimate and subsequent Proposal also based upon price on the correct assumption that the awarding of the project will be based upon price first. So both parties - the buyer and the seller end up making a decision not upon reality - the costs to provide what's expected - but back to price again.
Imagine if each of us bought only price. Only McDonalds and Wendys would exist as “restaurantsâ€, and only the cheapest cars would exist, and Wal-Mart would flourish in their clothing department.
I’ll bet it’s rare for a potential remodeling or new house customer to actually go and visit 2-3 remodels or houses built by the contractor they are leaning toward, and talk to their owners in private, and with a list of pertinent questions. Nahhhhh. Too much trouble and time, says the average wife, who actually spend more time just applying her makeup, doing her hair and deciding what to wear, for a lousy dinner out. Believe me, I’ve been in this business for 32 years, and I’m right.
It’s the quirks of our species. Go figure.
And you’re right, my industry has just as many sleazy and/or incompetent “players†as in any other industry. In our case one of the reasons is because the cost of getting into our industry is very small.
And I’ve learned that even those why belong to our associations does not warranty getting a good job. Even with their association “ethical†statements, politics takes over and increasing membership numbers trump mandating the living up to their ethical standards.
So the public is really on their own, and is why it’s so important to take their time and validate the “brand†name of any potential contractor and do their own “proper†research.
Finally, you also have to realize that from a contractor’s perspective, the number of sleazy members of our buying public also abound, and is one reason why so many “good†contractors have closed up shop. Those sleazy members of the public have literally run them out of business by screwing them out of money time and again.
Understand, we cannot repossess a remodeling project or $800 roof repair, so we to must do a better job at our own “researchâ€, also called “qualifying.â€
So it ends up being that too many of the public and to many contractors end up being their own worse enemy.
Sonny had some good points, even though he didn't do much to "sugar coat" them. You could ask for references and check them out. You could find new homes you like and talk to their owners. I may seem like work to do this investigation, but a little effort now may save you lots of grief later. Others may have better ideas--maybe ask a builders association? Local BBB? maybe even people responding to this web site know builders in your area (maybe it's against the rules to recommend someone over this website--I should probably re-read them.)
Ah, Sonny, the point you make is the crucial one, but I disagree with you on one detail:
all of the examples you cited are widely known to the public at large. People know "Wendy's" and "Wall Mart" before they even go in to the store.
But builders are usually a big unknown for common people. They don't know who to call or who to trust and all have heard some horror story at some dinner party to make them wary.
In the old days you knew who to call because your dad used them and you grew up in the community developing an awareness of such things all your life, even without being aware that you were doing so.
But today, people move in and out of town and have little more than the Yellow Pages and advertising to make a guess at who'll be right for their job, and who will match well enough to their personality to make the process a positive one.
Even asking the neighbors can be sketchy, depending on how long they've lived there and whether their past project's experience was similar enough to be a usefull comparison (a contractor who builds great houses might not be best for a modest addition, etc.).
There are no easy answers, some people (customers) will want to have the opportunity to pay for a detailed quote, some will be insulted to have that choice even brought up.
Some contractors will happilly provide a quote and some never call you back - are the flaky or are they so good they are busy with business?
I think that (as a homeowner) there are no easy answers. Developing your business to the point where it can be mainly word-of-mouth is the nicest place to be because you can sort of get back to that "small town" way where both sides know well what to do and what to expect.
Because there are so many people who move every year, even perfect "word of mouth" will never take care of everyone, and advertising and intitial face-to-face meetings can be very misleading.
I am very happy to have found some great contractors who I have come to trust in my area, and it took some time and effort to reach this. But I think this may not be the USUAL experience for typical homeowners who may not care to spend time to work on it.
Those kind of homeowners need "wall mart" and "wendy's" type of businesses that they can call on and have the minimum of surprises. They would also likely get cookie-cutter and bland results by usuing something like that as a builder, if such existed, since that's what big corporations do and that's why the local burger joint down the block that you go to for a great burger gets your preferred business. McDonald's is HUGE though, because, it seems, most people want simple and 'edible' and cheap.
I don't know how such a thing could come about in the building industry, even if anyone did agree that it would improve the relationships between builders/contractors and the customers. I am just throwing it out as an idea, taking your point as a start.
Norm
I'm a veteran of your situation and while it still itches sit yourself down and prepare an invoice for this fella and send it out / not retribution not punitive just just
helps in your path to realization / attainment
N orm, as you know the only thing guaranteed in life is change, and that's why I always tell customers to make sure the do "smart" research before deciding on who to hire. And as I stated earlier, I remind them that they are not buying a car or appliance that they can see, feel and try out.
When I first started building stuff I asked a friend how much I should charge for my services.......he said "whatever the market will bear".........thanks for the no help.
Later I realized that in this business there are no formulas that work for every situation..........cause when dealing with humanity things change with the individual.
Do I charge for a proposal? Sometimes.............Do I spend a lot of up-front free time with a potential client?. Sometimes...........
I have learned to go with my gut instincts when it comes to dealing with people and I seldom get in a jamb............but it takes time, experience, and an open mind............cause sometimes the poor black guy will bust his azz to pay you and the rich white dude will run forever.
Learning the trade is easy compared to understanding people. My only steadfast rule is to never work out of my own pocket............this even applies to whole houses. Most people called me (when I was actively building) I asked for up-front money and we started the project...........course I only did one at a time and was on the job constantly dealing the HO. I never minded the changes etc. cause it's a big thing for these people and they want the perfect place..............but they pay for changes up-front. No after the project arguing about the extras cause they are already in the bag.
A few years ago a friend and I were working on a house, doing some small improvement jobs. The HO told us that he wanted to put an big addition on, and that he wanted us to have the job and will not be bidding it out to others.
We worked up a price of about $200 grand for the job, and he starts backpeddling. So we ask what he can do without, and work up another price, about 140 G.
He again says its more than he wants to spend,and wants another quote. We tell him we've already got a LOT of time invested ( numerous meetings w/ HO, meeting subs, writing up est.) without any signed contract, and that the next estimate will not be free. He doesn't want to pay, so we say sorry and good-bye.
We find out later from the architect that he did asks for prices from other contractors, and that the one that got finally the job ended up dealing with numerous changes and delays from the HO.
I'm just glad we got out when we did.
shep... you mean the homeowner lied to you ?....
well , i never Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Well, I know I'm partly to blame.
I just thought we and the HO had a better "relationship' , for lack of a better word.
I'm probably still too willing to trust people and make deals with a handshake( which drives my wife nuts! ), but I'm getting a lot better.
Reading posts on this site has helped a lot, too.
Well, ya never going to guess who called me this morning.
Yup, the eegit.
Said he had a sparky sorted for some lights, but did I know someone who could plaster?........then, did wall X really need new drywall, or could it be tidied up?.........and "I know we have messed you around, but would you be able to do it.....?"
I soooo wanted to tell him what he could do to himself, but instead said that his timeframe/date was already taken and I was booked solid for 4 months.
That pretty much ended that. I figgured better than being rude, even if I did want to. :-)
Unbelievable. I must have MORON embossed on my head or something. Like I want to go in for another round of this crap?
I have never encountered a more "diverse" range of people in any other job. Certainly stops a fella getting bored.........
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
I recently did some work for a client. Gave him a very good price and a lot of value. Of course, the client did not really know what he wanted until he saw it taking shape, resulting in some adjustments, which I had anticipated, to the point of framing ahead to accommodate the changes that were sure to come. Overall, the client was happy and wanted me to do another job, which I was able to fit in about three weeks later. He also mentioned some other work that he needed done in the basement that he wanted me to look at. I was not happy about a few of the job conditions on the first job, so I made some rules for the second job. I also quoted a higher price structure. I didn't really want the third job, even though I would have charged even more. During the second job, I ran into an unknown condition, and, rather than eat the cost of time and materials myself, I immediately called the client and told him what I had found and what it would cost. I finished the job, making a decent profit for a change. The client got a very good value anyway. He has not called me back for the third job, and I am hoping it stays that way.Les Barrett Quality Construction
Sometimes its nice to be a little bored.