Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 05, 1999 03:22am | #1

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   Ray

   Don't know the best way to bend you tubing. I'd say if is thin wall pipe, then a regular bender should do it. I am concerned however about your reasoning for wanting to do it yourself; "$200 plus price tag on many of them for what appears to be $30 worth of tubing, some fittings and solder" As a home builder, I get basicly the same comment when I tell a customer what I charge to build that home that they want to live in the rest of their life. Why so much? All it is some wood, plaster and brick. The person that was selling those trellises and arbors has overhead, the time involved in the designing and building of them, marketing, etc. Why do doctors charge so much? All it involves is making a little cut, removing/repairs (put in what you want here) and a couple of stitches? I bet if you really check out those trellises and arbors, you'd find more than $30.00 worth of tubing & fittings.

   Vince

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 05, 1999 06:42pm | #2

   *Hard copper (plumbing) tubing cannot be bent cold. I don't know if you will have success in heating it. There may be other types of copper tubing that are meant to be bent (no poem intended).

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 06, 1999 04:24am | #3

   *Harbor Freight Tools has a copper tubing bender. Coils of flexible are also available at any plumbing store or home depot and it is very flexible and easy to bend.

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 07:43am | #4

   *Soft copper (roll copper tubing) can be bent using a conduit bender for larger sizes. A 3/4" conduit bender works well for 7/8" o.d/3/4" i.d. copper tubing. Bending springs are available for 5/8" o.d and smaller. These springs work well for bending smaller sizes of tubing. I have not had good luck bending larger copper (1 3/8" o.d. and up). Fittings can be bought to accomplish both long and short radius bends for larger sizes. Went to Branson MO last weekend and noticed a lot of the handrails and such were made of appx. 1 3/8 hard copper using fittings soldered together.

1. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 08:09am | #5

   *I bend 180 degree sweeps for thermal traps in my hydronic piping panels using a C-type oxy-acetylene tip from Smith that has 7 orifices. I use 3/4 and 1 inch type L hard copper pipe and a hand made jig. I can easily and smoothly create a 7" bend in 3/4" material and a 9" bend from 1" material.I have tried using TypeM tube but have not been satisfied with the results. I also use a T-Drill to draw collars from my runs for branches eliminating tee fittings. Very clean appearance. I low temperature solder (~450F) or high temperature braze. Swaging hard drawn copper with a swaging tool also makes for a better appearance than standard copper couplings. Perhaps you could guide me to a website that shows a picture of how these ornamental dealiebobs are constructed?Sounds like a great idea for a home based craft business when the schedule slows down. I've never seen such an offering. My curiousity is piqued since I already have the equipment.

2. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 08:23am | #6

   *jj:what's this jig like? How do you keep the copper from crushing? -Ryan

3. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 09:11am | #7

   *I believe you call them "sheeves?". The pulleys commonly found at Grainger for belt drives.The way the jigs are configured is with a stationary pulley(pivot point) mounted on a 1/2" steel plate. I had a radiused channel(180 degrees) cut in the steel plate to receive a handle with guide bearing which on the top side has another pulley connected via a shaft. The handle is connected to the same shaft as the stationary pulley mounted on the steel plate. I had three fabricated, one each for 1/2, 3/4 and 1" tube. Local fab did it for less than $1,000 including all the steel for the jig table.The way it works is I place a length of copper pipe in the jig between the two pulleys, heat the copper with the oxy-acetylene C-tip concentrating on heating 3-6 inches at a time until the tube turns orange to red and start turning the handle to form the tube between the two pulley's. I just heat the tube and keep drawing the handle attached to the mobile pulley until the tube is formed into a smooth 180 degree bend.I have never tried this with 1-1/4" copper so I don't know how it would work.I would imagine the radii involved in forming a 12-24" trellis or whatever would take a lot of patience. I have only worked with smaller radii but you can damn sure betcha I will be trying it out for myself.As far as the $200.00 or so price tag? My last invoice for 1-1/4" TypeL copper came in at almost $1.90 a lineal foot and I bought 4,000 feet. Hope they are using TypeM for the straight runs.[g]If these babies are being manufactured in mexico(where a lot of decorative copper comes from, and the mexican government also subsidizes the cost of exported copper) it may not be worth the investment in tooling up for production runs. I would instead concentrate on artistic freeform, unique sculptures. You know the "niche" drill, eh? Anyone price 1-1/4" copper tees lately?Jeff

4. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 09:26am | #8

   *A few years ago This Old House did their dirty on a flat in London. The plumber did not use elbows in an effort to mitigate the effect of right angle turns in a low water pressure situation). Instead he fabricated sweeps from rigid copper on site. No heat. Trying to recall the technique. Seems to me he used an EMT type bender. I also understand you can get a good result by filling rigid tubing with sand and capping both ends. The sand keeps the tubing from collapsing when bent. This may be one of those cases where the "artist' develops a technique and keeps it close hold.

5. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 05:03pm | #9

   *JJ:your post reminded me of a bending jig I've seen for bending steel pipe to make the "bows" for greenhouses.This jig used three sheaves bolted to a steel plate. Two sheaves were bolted ridgedly a couple of feet apart and there was a middle sheave that could be slid in a grove in the plate. This middle sheave could be moved between the two or could be offset several inches. A piece of pipe was "threaded" over sheave one, under sheave two, and then over sheave three. As the pipe was pulled through the wheels, it got a smooth uniform bend along its entire length.

6. 
   Guest_ | Nov 09, 1999 03:32am | #11

   *European hard copper tubing is meant to be bent. It is different than our hard copper tubing. Most elbows there are bent on the site.

2. 
   Guest_ | Nov 08, 1999 05:03pm | #10

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   JJ:
   your post reminded me of a bending jig I've seen for bending steel pipe to make the "bows" for greenhouses.

   This jig used three sheaves bolted to a steel plate. Two sheaves were bolted ridgedly a couple of feet apart and there was a middle sheave that could be slid in a grove in the plate. This middle sheave could be moved between the two or could be offset several inches. A piece of pipe was "threaded" over sheave one, under sheave two, and then over sheave three. As the pipe was pulled through the wheels, it got a smooth uniform bend along its entire length.

3. 
   Roy_Settgas | Nov 16, 1999 06:38am | #12

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   I've successfully bent hard copper tubing (as well as steel & aluminum tubing) using Holsclaw "Handy" Tube Benders available from A.L. Frederick Co. (Evansville, Indiana, 812 422-4121). These are hand operated gear driven tube benders, which cost (on my 1991 price list) from $47 to $126 and bend from 3/8" OD tube up to 1 1/8" OD. They "draw bend" the tube, which avoids kinking & crushing. They are great simple tools. I found out about them from the book Baidarka, by George Dyson. George used Holsclaw benders to bend aluminum tubing to make the frames of his baidarkas (Aleutian style sea kayaks).

4. 
   ray_schaub | Jan 04, 2000 11:33pm | #13

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   Having seen some neat looking trellises and arbors made from copper tubing but not liking the $200 plus price tag on many of them for what appears to be $30 worth of tubing, some fittings and solder I tried my hand at making my own. Pretty simple to make basic geometric shapes and angled structures, but I'd like to make some arched pieces for the tops and I'm unsure as to the best way to bend 1/2" or 3/4" copper tubing. Can I use a regular conduit bender or do I need a hydraulic bender? Any help?