Hi All,
I’ve done a search through the archives and am still unsure as to which exterior paint is considered best. Some of the posts stated the quality of Benjamin Moore wasn’t what it used to be. I plan on using a paintshaver to remove most of the paint on our 900 sq ft bungalow, and probably apply an oil based primer and oil topcoat, or two. All depends on what I learn here.
Thanks
Kevin
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Replies
Definitely good stuff -- there may be better, but you won't go too wrong with Bennie Moore. However, I (personally) would go with the alkyd primer (Moorwhite) and acrylic latex paint (Moorgard/Moorglo), if only to make life easier for the painter (me).
Did some research on old house journal and they recommended you put oil on oil. Said the chalky residue would be absorbed with oil as it is what it came from, a simplification of what they said, but accurate. Said latex would not bind as well. Keep in mind I will be using the paintshaver, so the old paint may not be a factor.
Thanks
If the old paint isn't an issue (i.e., you take it all off), I'd recommend latex paint. It's a lot less work, and it's generally accepted to be a better product for most things. Oil primer is still good stuff, though.zak
"so it goes"
Ben's great, but...
Go to a real paint store (even one that sells BM) and ask them for the best. You'll probably end up with P&L Accolades. Shiftless Willy's has a exceptional line, but Consumers Reports says California Pint is the best.
I've used the P&L and so far find it a bit better than the BM.
Just got done painting our wooden Italianate 4 colors--used Pratt & Lambert Accolade...nice stuff--with a good reputation. But soooo much went into prep that it was bound to look nice :-)
But soooo much went into prep that it was bound to look nice
A painter friend of mine tells me that a good paint job is all about the preparation effort. The best paint in the world can't make up for a poor prep job and good prep work will make even mediocore paint look good.
When he and his crew painted my house, they didn't even open the paint until the afternoon of the third day - lol.
4 years ago we took ALL of the paint off our 130 year bungalow with a Paint Shaver, about 900 belt sander belts, 2 5" disc sanders and 1500 discs, more carbide and profile scrapers than I can count, and about 3 months of greulling evenings and weekends.
Some notes:1. The Paint Shaver works good for large areas, but you need something to get into the corners of each and every lap board where it meets the trim. A 5" disc sander can get in a little closer, but you're still going to be spending a lot of time with your carbide scraper.2. Do yourself a favor and start on the north side of the house. The paint is much harder to get off when it hasn't seen the sun. If you start on the South side, as you get into the project and more closer to burnout, you'll get really depressed when you get around to the north and find out it takes 3 times as much effort to get that paint off.3. You'll spend more money on sanding belts, pads, paper, and scrapers than you will on paint. So use the best.4. We took absolutely all of the paint off our house, and while we probably wouldn't have qualified as a lead paint abatement, we were VERY CAREFUL to get as much of the dust and chips up as possible. Lots of plastic, and plastic tenting around your scaffolding. It take lots of time. Once we were finished, the house was breathtakingly beautiful. We had 3 knots in the whole house. All of the siding, all of the trim: THREE KNOTS!5. We used Ben Moore FRESH START exterior Alkyd (oil) primer and 2 coats of Ben Moore Acrylic Latex exterior paint (I can't remember which) everywhere, and so far (it's only been 4 years) there's been no problems. I wash the exterior of the house with Murphy's Soap and warm water every two years, using a long telescoping soft-bristle carwash brush, and the paint still looks as good as new.6. However long you think it will take you to prep, multiply that time by three. That's how long it will take. Do it right, though, and you'll never have to again. (And believe me, I won't!)Good luck, this forum was a valuable resource for us four years ago...
I've got a couple questions:Any pictures of the the process?
How big was this bungalow, three months seems like a lot of work.
Is it neccesary to remove every spec of paint? If it's sticking to the surface pretty good, why take it off?My bungalow is small, board and batten. I was thinking of using the paint shaver for the bulk of it, and possibly replacing all of the battens if the paint removal on them was too much.Thanks for the reply.
Edited 6/14/2006 7:34 pm ET by dockelly
I agree with Rasher re: the stripping--we did the same thing on our 1881 Italianate. But I'd add one more step in the process (if you want to make it the best possible prep job)...
After you strip all the paint off (I used a Metabo Paint Stripper--worked great. It uses a carbide "tips" that last a good long time, so long as you don't hit a nail--and it gets into corners and next to trim--but no matter how you slice it, stripping a house is dirty, hard work) you may wish to consider the following:
After sanding and prior to priming, I used a two part penetrating epoxy from Smith & Company...This stuff really soaks into the wood, improving its density, providing great protection against water, and providing great bite for the primer. The stuff is made for wooden boats, and it is expensive--about $600.00 for a ten gallon kit. If your house is on the beach, I'd consider it money well spent.
After applying the penetrating epoxy, apply a good oil based primer, then two coats paint....
Good luck.
The reason why we took all of the paint off is because it was so thick. I'm talking maybe 1/8" or even more. About half of the paint on the house fell off down to bare wood if you looked at it real mean and the rest stuck real good. Even after sanding and priming test patches to see if it would look alright, we realized it was going to look really bad to just paint over the paint that remained so we resigned ourselves to taking it all off.
I don't regret the decision now, because I know we did the right thing. But it was a truly miserable task to do. Now, after we finish stripping all of our 120 year old original windows this summer, we can be relatively well assured that there is no lead paint anywhere on the house, because we will have taken every speck of paint off of the house, inside and out...
We didn't use the epoxy, but it sounds like it might be a good idea. We didn't want to mess around and stuck with the old tried-and-true: Scrape, sand, prime, paint. I'm hoping for 10 years before having to recoat.
I've used California paint exclusively for my cedar sided home in MA. the past 21 yrs.. Original coating was an oil stain in an old colonial dark color. Switched to a brighter color after 6yrs, and used latex paint. Never had any bonding problems, but as many mentioned the sweat equity is in the proper prep.
If you have a MAB store in your area I'd look at there Saeshore line. It's as good as BM and cheaper. It won CR exterior paint of the year 2 years ago.
Headstong, I'll take on anyone!
dock,
The best exterior latex I have used is SW Duration hands down. That is if best is judged by performance after it is applied. It is the hardest paint I have ever painted with as you have to clean your brush often and sometimes with "Brush Cleaner" It's best to have a good supply of brushes so you cn throw this one in a can to soak and grab another and 'keep gettin up' It has a tenacious bond to almost anything it comes in contact with. Another down side to Duration is that it cost more than $40 per gallon. But the paint is usually the cheapest thing about painting. I fail to see the point of saving $10 a gallon if you are talking about an amount under 50 gallons or so.
I started using Duration on Hardi-Plank and exterior surfaces a 4 or 5 yrs? back with 0 problems. Moore has a great product and it's pretty good to work with. P&L has been pretty good to me as well as Porter paint.
k
I agree . Although Ive not used some of the paints mentioned but Duration is a far pass by of KM. Of course there is a huge price difference. KM is a premium contractors paint . I also like the rest of the SW and the PPG line. For a home owner that wants quality then Duration is worth it but it probably wont be bid unless its speced.
One more thing .
From a painters perspective or at least mine from many years in the business , most out sides were done within 20 gallons or less. At say 350 sg feet per gallon coverage per coat , that figgures 7500 sq ft of walls and trim. [Or carport ceilings included which we have a bunch of those. ] Requardless of the prices of homes thats a pretty big job to go over that on averages. Sure there are several 50 gallon jobs of rough cedar , but they are in minority here . Actually there is a lot more masonite here than anything else and of course the figgure of metal trim and viynl siding matched is certainly made a presence in the last 10 years. Masonite got closer to 400 sq ft per gallon than any of the wood sidings. In the old days I actually exceded 450 per gallon with oil. Brick is another big big factor here as we are very heavy in brick so the figgures in gallon usage are very low. Im fixing to paint a 3 bedroom 1 bath brick with wood trim /carport INCLUDED. My figgures for it are 5 gallons and that is sitting in the storage room. I said all that to say this; The cost of materials is nearly zelch in comparison to the differences in prices. Labor will run much more so in theory Duration is the best buy over the long haul of my rental. That to me makes a big statement as tight as I am with expenses on my rentals. However John Que Homeowner will look at Walmart in most cases or a big box store and buy on price alone with out considering just like the lowest gasoline sells over the premiums . The truth of the matter is the mid grade gasoline is a better value in my tool truck when the smoke clears after it stops. I buy midgrade gasoline from select stations . There are some stations that dont hold the same figgures with my truck. So according to my old tool truck there is a difference as I average every load of fuel and keep the data in the side pocket of the door . I used to find realitive differences in paint and drywall mud by averageing the jobs by the sg ft to materials. Back then , SW always won out on coverage for less gallons so to pay a higher price for it in cents per gallon was minute compared to the real value or as I look at it today in the real bottom line . I always said when a surface is covered its done and different paints did it with differing measures. So the better paints always came in in lower usages which strikes two points for quality paints and thus ends this report. <G>
Tim
Take a look at http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/faqs.aspx and be open to the idea of a paint that costs twice as much but lasts two or three time longer. Works out to being cheaper per year and really after using a paintshaver doesn't that interest you.
The enamel looks like it's been sprayed and is as hard as porcelain. Go with the whole system, primer too.
I may sound like a pimp but I've used this paint and it's truly amazing.
Consider there are two American paints that are recognized as being superior coatings, marine and auto paint. Both cost the same as the Euro paint.
Think it over. They offer sample kits to try out.
After the prep you've done I wouldn't want to see you get a less than long lasting paint.
Don't know if BM is the best but Sherwin Williams Duration is the bomb, used it on my mother and fathers place. Don't want
to have to paint again so the extra cost wasn't a factor. The paint was on sale anyway was like $38 a gallon(??).
I need to repaint my cape here in Connecticut and am also wondering about what paint to use. It's light yellow, and the last coat was a latex of some kind, but not sure what. It has cedar shingles, and get's those little black splotches of mildew on one side of the house. Any more thoughts ?
Be sure to remove the mildew somehow (various opinions as to whether plain washing, special cleaners, or bleach is best choice). Repaint with a mildew-resistant paint, or one to which an anti-mildew agent has been added. Some paint stores will add the anti-mildew agent just like they add tint.Of course, note that tiny black dots that are slightly raised and have a tar-like consistency are flyspecks, not mildew.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
We're going on three weeks of painting now. I'm using Ben Moore FRESH START exterior Alkyd primer and two coats of Bennie Moore's Acrylic Latex flat exterior paint. Red primer and Cottage Red top coats.
Power washed the whole house from the top down real well first. Let it dry and made sure it was ready to paint by first using a moisture meter on the shakes.
The SW dealer almost seemed to talk me out of the Duration saying most people that are new to this paint will HATE using it. It goes on 3 mil thick. I decided against it and glad I did because the BM primer is as excellent as I could ask for and goes on real nice. Isn't as easy as putting on the top coats. More like a watered down glue but as I said, it goes on real nice. And when dry it seems bullet proof!
I'm painting over real old wood shakes thats been previously painted, as well as new shakes on my additions and repairs. I'm priming just about the entire house including the previously painted areas.
We'll be using ovr 60 gallons of paint on this job.
The cost of Duration over the BM isn't that drastic so that wasn't the reason I went w/ BM. I agree. Never go by the cost of the paint. Thats the least of it!!
Prep is the whole thing not to mention equiptment.
And please use good brushes and keep them seriously clean!! Wash with warm soapy water, spin, comb, put em' back in their cases to keep the shape sharp.
BE well
a...
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