I am a carpentry contractor looking for advice on the best ways to advertise. I know word of mouth is the preferred method of staying busy, and we are very busy because of the fact that we do quality work, but the majority of our work is as carpentry sub contractors. I would like to try to get some work where we have more control and responsibility, at the same time I do not want to be seen as a threat to the builders that keep us busy. The majority of our work is atleast 40 minutes drive from my home. I would like to get the word out locally about our services. Any advice
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You came to the right place.
Where are you located? What type of area are you interested in working in; rural, urban, industrial? What type of work are you seeking; additions, kitchens?
FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
I am located in Southern New Jersey. I am looking for residential work in higher end neighborhoods. I am currently framing three houses in the 2-5 million dollar range, I consider framing for the higher end custom builders to be my bread and butter. The work I would like to bring in to supplement this work would ideally be interior trim, door and window replacement, kitchen and bath remodeling etc. To clarify, I would ultimately like to end up working in higher end neighborhoods that does not mean that I would turn down any leads based on their location.
some of what we do
yellow pages... we have one listing.. no charge..."skylights"
easily identifiable logo.... that doesn't look like anyone else's
a 3x5 add in the service directory of our weekly paper... always there.. ( with logo )
nice truck signage ( with the logo )
job signs ( with the logo )
trailer sign ( logo )
an add on every scorecard at our municipal golf course (logo )
hats, tee shirts, sweatshirts & coveralls with our logo...
logo business cards in the card rack at the local hardware store
giving 90% of our business to one lumberyard ( we get referrals )
small gifts to a lot of people at the lumberyard every christmas (we get referrals )
trying hard to keep our reputation good (referrals )
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Good point about the logo. We do the same. (ours looks better)
You reminded me of some other areas we are in. A local restraunt got table tops that have ads sold on them. Popular place. 17 booth tops for 2 years. With logo.
On local cable tv we have the high school game replays and we are "ProModel extra point" people each time an extra point is kicked.
Truck signs (on the back now after you pointed that out) with logo.
Business cards with logo.
Trailer signage with logo.
Yard signs with logo.
Shirts with logo. DanT
btw.... i need some more shirts
2xl & xl........
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Who in the h#ll is the 2X for? No problem. I will send you more shirts when mine arrive! :-) A 2X and M will do. DanT
Edited 11/20/2007 10:54 pm ET by DanT
We use a variety of advertising mediums. Daily newspaper, a coupon mailer, TV and the phone book.
The first bit of advice I will give you is try one and everytime someone calls ask "how did you hear about us" and then write it down. We ran various ads for years and when we started tracking them we found areas we thought really worked (radio) didn't and those that we thought were useless (yellow pages) were really good.
Every area of the country has it's own area of strength. Try one for 90 days. If you make enough off the ad to pay for it do it again. That is how we do it. Once we have advertised for 6 months in a particular medium (provided it past the 90 pay for itself test) we feel we can count it as a realistic track in competition with our other areas of advertising.
Word of mouth and referals are always best. But until you have worked for a number of folks those are sparce at best. I think I read it takes 4-5 years to get to the point that referals make up a good part of a business. It took 5 with us. It is now 60% of our leads. DanT
DanT,
your post is interesting to me---- I track EVERY lead religously.
I allocate resources differently.---I am not really interested in an ad which " pays for itself"---- I expect an ad to pay for it self many,MANY times over.--- if it's break-even--or even a bit above break even-- i will cancell it. I would rather stay home-------and break even---than work(incurring liability) to break even.
for me-------- I have run phone book ads for years----experimenting with different sizes.---in roofing---large ads draw a lot of response----but sales are based on low price--not my market.---smaller ads draw response for repairs--which i like---but you have to respond QUICKLY ( I am currently to busy to respond to repair requests quickly)
all in all---depending on how I formatted it---phone book ads are above the break even point-----but not really enough to make it worth it
so this year I am scaling it WAAAY back( like Mike---I put one in the listing under skylights)
Truck signs with logo( actually gonna make some changes to my logo for the new truck)
Yard signs( honestly--- I constantly forget to put those things up.
church bulletin.---this is a money maker for me.-small investment--small volume-----big return per job gained
weekly newspaper which circulates in a part of town with lots of large,OLD homes in need of roofing, exterior carpentry etc.--cost of ad is negligible---not a lot of volume out of it---but big return---every job that ad generates is a $$$$$ maker.
Personally-I have been totally swamped with hail storm work for 6 months----and will continue to be swamped untill at least August of 2008.----however----- the money i have pulled back from the phone book ads--- I am gonna put into that weekly newspaper--------because I hope to be semiretired after august-----and I think the neighborhood that weekly covers is going to be my semi-retirement work.
stephen
<<<<<<because I hope to be semiretired after august->>>>>
stephen...... so, what's nu ?
you've been semiretired for as long as i've known you
you mean your gonna get MORE semiretired ?
c'mon.... lessee the new logo !
how about you on a couch ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
mike--yes---- i am gonna get MORE semi retired.
after august- i don't think i will be doing anymore roofs like this one
but i will miss views like this
I am just grumpy because I am about 1400 hours over my target of 1000 hours a year or less---and it ain't thanksgiving yet.
stephen.
My theory is and has always been that if advertising is free, or paying for itself then it is still exposure. Seeing your name is always good and if it makes enough to pay for itself then it is just another place that people will see the name and hopefully make it more recognizable and they become more comfortable with it.
So, if the ad makes enough money to pay its own freight I have another avenue for people to see the company name and it becomes more recognizable. I'm with Mike. I remember a few years ago you talking about working out, reading a lot and not having to be on the job all the time, coaching the kids etc. because you had a good crew and it was well organized. Sounds semi retired to me. DanT
some karketing book i read said your need 7 notices ( blips on the radar ) before anything registers with a potential customer
so.. truck sign..... job sign..... weekly ad.... business card in the rack
tee shirt.....yellow pages..... maybe another truck sign..
and all of a sudden they think thye've know you foreverMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I read that and once read an article that said that at 7 the noticed you, by 14 they felt like the knew you and by 21 they were comfortable with you. I read that before I started advertising in the daily paper.
So when I started advertising I kept track. I got a couple of calls after 7, a few more after 14. When the 23rd ad ran the phone started ringing on a consistant basis. Weird but true. Part of my keep in their mind theory. DanT
I'm surprised you've had success with the yellow pages.
We get enough calls out of the yellow pages, however like most guy's here, not many sales.
Most people who call me out of the phone book have called at least 4 if not 6 other people and generally looking for the lowest price.
This year I scaled our company's ads in both local books down to listings only under a few headings.
We only have a 1" block ad in Gen Contractors and a Bold white pages and a free line in Remodeling contractors. But we get a lot more traffic from it than I would have thought. Never thought it did much for us till we started tracking it.
We ran a radio ad on the local 8AM weather and thought that thing was great. Once we started tracking it we found out it was a dog. Dumped it. DanT
DanT-------
i prefer exposure without liability.
If an ad only breaks even-or even is only slightly on the plus side------------- it's actually a money loser to me--because of the liability.( and the physical risk)
Profit needs to be MULTIPLES of the ads cost--to be a worthwhile return. I have no intention of selling my vertabrae and knee cartilage( or anybody elses for that matter)--just to pay for a break even ad.
just a differnt way of looking at things I guess, LOL
Stephen
No no no. That is not what I mean by break even. We still do small jobs. So if we pay $600 for an ad in a monthly magazine then I will continue to run it as long as we sell one job that we can directly attribute to that ad that nets...........clear at the bottom line after every little detail............$600 or better. We occasionally still do jobs under 1k.
So no, if I ran an add and had to discount it to net $600 for a roof job to get it I wouldn't do it either. I don't discount the job at all. I just need to sell enough from that ad to break even or better to continue it. DanT
see, DanT---- i would want to CLEAR $3,000---$4,000 out of that $600 ad----or it wouldn't be worth it to me.
spending $600 to net $600-- for me is just spinning my wheels
just a different view is all,
stephen
Ok, that I understand. I was just pointing out that I wasn't increasing liability etc.etc. DanT
I think Dan's yellow pages add lends some credibility to his operation even if it's not a big money maker. A lot of the older people view yellow pages as some form of a Who's Who. In their minds, if you aren't in the YP, you don't exist. Younger people go the the internet first.I think a lot of people might use the YP like I do. I'm new in Austin, so I have to research a lot of suppliers and vendors and I use the YP as a starting point if I have no idea at all. In many cases, I do have an idea of what company I'm looking for. I might have seen their truck making a delivery and I use the YP as my resource to get their number. In this case, the truck was my exposure and the YP was the tool to get me to call them. Why skylights? FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
jim.. i used to be a skylight dealer.... so i had a listing..
after a while we were no longer a skylight dealer.. but i forgot to remove the listing
turns out there are usually no listings for "skylights"
and yet almost everyone has one
we get several calls a year from our free skylight listing
and it is almost always a lead-in to ROOFINGMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I kinda knew it was leading you into something other than skylights which to me is a nightmare remodeling contract. I wonder if there is another listing like that which would lead to shell packages? FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
well, after that experience, i would imagine that if you went thru the YP, you'd find numerous examples of categories that people would call that have no listings or few listings
mebbe we could add a new chapter to "Guerilla Marketing " for the new editionMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
blue,
i am keeping a small listing--really the smallest I can have in the YP.
a lot of people use it as a screening tool.-- they may originally get your number from somewhere else---but they follow up checking you for a phone book listing.- If you ain't there---you ain't legit in their mind.
as far as skylights go-----------they are tremendous money earners.--not so much installing a skylight where none have been before---but replacing EXISTING units.
Very profitable. If customer does NOT have existing skylights-- I will do my best to talk them out of adding them.
however---if they have existing leaking skylights------- I am perfectly willing to EARN. you can Clear more money sometimes going out and replacing 3 skylights in a single morning--that you can with 5 guys doing a 25 sq. roof
BTW-- I see Dan's business model-------as a machine.--- he needs to shovel a certain volume of raw materials( jobs) in one end of the machine each month--in order to get to get the volume of $$$ coming out the other end that he wants. nothing wrong with that at all----that's the way most people view things.
I approach it differently- typically for me--each job is totally seperate from all others-----each stands alone as an individual investment---so i won't take on projects just to "feed the machine"( keep men working). much easier for me to do that as a solo operation( as I prefer)---but I can also do it as a seasonal operation with 5 guys. It's just a huge PITA with 5 guys--- I have to be constantly on the look for "investemnts" of the right size---------and it makes it much less practical to do the actual "earners" like the skylight jobs.
stephen
I do remember how profitable skylight r&r is, especially for someone like you who has made a science out of small repairs. I also agree on your philosophy about talking them out of new ones!I went to look at a skylight deal. I immediately explained that they could collect an insurance claim on the interior repairs but the new skylight would be on their dime. That led them to ask about a saddle that was a constant source of irritation. That led them to discussing the possibilities of cutting a bay window through a brick wall in their home office. We ended up doing them all at a very good price and the insurance claim paid for the bathroom interior repairs.I like the strategy because I don't see the need for a big YP expense. I'm going to search through the YP here and see if there's a category that will lead into some bigger stuff. I don't want to do roofs or skylight repairs though...but if we get a handle on a great roofing sub, we may consider something like this. Years ago, I almost did something like that with a listing under deck builders or some category near it. I didn't follow through with it because I was transitioning into the business of subbing only and really didn't want any more retail clients. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
"BTW-- I see Dan's business model-------as a machine.--- "
That is exactly correct. We do smaller jobs in terms of dollars, we have a number of trucks and people so we must do volume to sustain it. A month long 40k job (we are near booking one now) is a big job for us both in time and dollars.
Then negative is a lot of administrative time. The positive is you have few to compete with. Big job remodelers don't want this size job and small guys struggle to handle them after 3-5k. So it is a nice niche but like all niches you have to be set up for it. DanT
I stopped advertising in the yellow pages....it was worthless. Google Ads, however, have been great! It's not expensive. You can program the ads to appear in a specific mile radius from your home base. You can set a monthly dollar budget to whatever you want.We'll have three guys busy replacing doors and windows in one home, all next week, for one $1.46 click on our Google Ad. That ain't bad......View Image
How does the program work? FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
You sign up and give them a credit card. I have a budget of $60.00/month ($2.00/day). You can set it to whatever you want. Sign up is very intuitive. You can have different worded ads, so see how they do. You need to figure out about 20 keywords that people would most likely search. A keyword does not have to be a single word, it can be a string of words. One of mine is 'Andersen Windows Repairs', I have another string where Andersen is spelled incorrectly, because most people are likely to spell it with an 'o' instead of an 'e'. Adwords starts with a simple version, to make it easy. You can switch to the more customizable version at anytime. After you get it set-up, then start using Google Analytics to track your hits. What keywords are used, location hits, time on site. Google Analytics is free!Start here:https://adwords.google.com/select/Signup1/index.htmlGood Luck!.View Image
Thanks, I signed up for a $50/mo. account, might as well give it a try! Is there a website or board you go to for your questions? BTW, nice website!View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product” – Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Maybe I missed it in here but home and garden shows are dollar for dollar the best advertising available if you're in a major market.
The smaller neighborhood home improvement fairs are good too. These are usually put together by neighborhood newspapers. Typically in a high school cafeteria or gym. People at shows are actively looking for contractors and are usually looking to spend money within the year. It gives you an opportunity to deal directly with them face to face for the first contact as well. It costs a bit for the initial setup but you can re-use your 10x10 setup for every show after. A 10x10 at the big spring show in Minneapolis is about $1500 for the five day show. I built our display for under $1000, but there are many companies that fabricate displays that tear down easily.
Thanx!, my son made the website.I haven't been using a message board, if you find one please let me know.When your ad appears on the screen of a 'googler' it is called an impression. You do not get charged, unless someone clicks on it. I surmise there is a fair amount of time the person clicks on the link instead of the ad......which costs nothing..View Image
Believe it or not, Craig's list has been a great source of work for the guy I'm working for now. He's placing (actually his wife, she's the web-savvy one) different sorts of ads and we're seeing several viable (and some non-viable) leads every day. We've actually got too much work and are looking at spinning off another crew.
Guess I'm just saying don't discount those free sources of advertising.
And one other thing, I've not done it, but I've met those that swear by advertising in their church bulletin. Just another idea.
White Trash Remodeling Inc.
Pittsburgh PA
Craigslist is great if you are in a market where it is widely used. When I lived in the SF Bay Area I ran a very nicely sideline business (wedding photography) strictly thru CL.
My only advertising right now, in addition to truck signage, is annual postcards. I send out 5000 which is almost every address here, and it costs about .20 each. Well worth it although the results may not be immediate. I consider the truck sign a must. A lot of people say "I have seen your trucks around" although I only have one.
White Trash Remodeling Inc.Pittsburgh PA
Thats an interesting name. Is it for real? If it is, what is the story? Naive but refreshing !
No, not really. I've just been feeling that way with the total gut/redo I've been working on. It's a mess. And that's being kind.Travis Bickle
White Trash Remodeling Inc.
Pittsburgh PA
I may only be 14 but I know a website is the way to go. an ad can oly say so much. Put pleanty of info on the wesite and then get the site known, put up flyers with the website in bold print. remember the title should be easy to remember ie. http://www.southshorebuilders.com not http://www.homerebuildingandrepair573489063.com
One step beyond word of mouth is the postcard.
Make a simple postcard announcing your services and send it to everyone you know.
I did this when I started and I've not advertized once since.
buy the book ( or borrow the book ) " Guerilla Marketing "
send messages that inspire confidence in their decision to invest in you
View Image
Edited 11/20/2007 8:05 am ET by MikeSmith
This is related so bear with me...
I was at my neighbors house watching the game Sunday. One of his buddies that I didn't know was there also. He found out I was a builder and kept asking me all kinds of questions about building a new house. The others there started getting on him about leaving me alone, but I didn't care at all I love to talk about what I do. Someone joked I should send him a bill for consulting. So guess what I did..
Monday morning printed up a "Consultation Service" invoice for $0.00. Hand written note on the invoice saying No Charge but keep us in mind when your ready to build. I included our color brochure and a couple cards. I expect to hear from my neighbor that the guy got a kick out of it, and I expect that he will call sometime.
Basically I am finding out the best form of advertisement is Be Friends With Everyone. Be out there in front of people. If people know you, they will hire you. You know how everyone has a friend who does construction? Be that friend.
Legal Disclaimer: The preceeding comments are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as professional advice. The reader of these comments agrees to hold harmless the poster, EJCinc, from any and all claims that EJCinc offered professional advice, ideas, or comments to the reader that may or may not have resulted in the damage, injury, or death to the readers property or person.
Edited 11/21/2007 5:43 pm ET by EJCinc
EJCinc.
You are definitely on to something there. I do much the same thing.
HOWEVER------- you have to be carefull with this----------it's really potentially time consuming--------and very easy to get caught up in doing "freebies". People often expect--because you are "friends"-that you would be delighted to pop over and hang a door for them free---or lend them this or that.---and the endless free consultations.
Very tricky--once you have developed a certain volume of work---to finesse this.
Typically i don't carry business cards----even if people demand one----- I will usually,at best, produce a rumpled dog eared one. I NEVER want to appear in a social setting like I am trolling for business.---usually, I will invest maybe 3 sentences with someone and then say" call this number- I will be happy to set up an appointment to look at your problem'---that quickly seperates the $$$$$ from the free advice types.
we can learn a LOT from doctors and lawyers on this,I think.-THEY don't spend a lot of time at parties standing around giving free advice or doing free medical exams.
Stephen
Cap:
I know some have had mixed experiences, but for the money I have never been able to beat http://www.servicemagic.com
You select the zip code areas you want leads from, the type of work and only pay when they make a referral to you. See how hard the newspaper or yellow pages guy laughs when you suggest that model.
Potential customers get to see your ratings from previous customers, a non-existant feature for other mediums. I've got a 4.65 out of a possible 5 rating and that really separates you from the riff-raff. You've got to be licensed (if required) and insured, more separation.
renovationexperts.com is fifty bucks a month. I'm doing a 15K kitchen from them next month, cabinets are on order. I'm in Michigan and work sucks here.
Kowboy