My supply of #20 joining biscuits is running low, so it is time to get some more. I’ve seen prices for 1000 of them vary by a factor of 2.5.
Lamello’s are probably the best. If so, are they worth the premium? I’m using an older DeWalt joiner, so my slot precision isn’t the best anyhow. How about Freud Biscuits? Other brands?
Whatever sort I buy, I plan to store them in an airtight plastic container, keeping a smaller ready supply in a plastic sandwich box, so they don’t swell in the humid air.
Bill
edited to add: I tried the advanced search to no avail. I recall someone posting that the Makita 3901 plate joiner was every bit as accurate as their Lamello, for around $200 new. Anyone care to confirm or deny this? I’d love more accuracy than my DeWalt provides, but the Lamello is $$$$.
Edited 4/16/2007 12:20 am by BillBrennen
Replies
We went to a little bed n breakfast that had the BEST sourdough biscuits...
mmmmm.......
I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
Pillsbury
Alriiiight....you didn't expect anything less did ya?
I buy Freud. They're fine. If they are a bit swollen from humidity, nuke 'em in the microwave. Works like a charm
Don't know what the last ones I had were but I just picked up some bosch biscuits since it was what they had on hand and they were fine. I doubt there is much difference.
Bought Freud's once. I'd rather pay for Lamello's biscuits, but I sometimes ask a lot of the joint. Take a peek at the bench leg/foot.
Never used a Makita tool, but I've been real happy for the past 26 yrs with my Lamello. Low lifespan cost.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Tom,Do you feel that the Lamello bix are stronger than the others? Also, have you used the fiberboard ones Lamello makes? Their rep showed 'em to me at a show.I may have to bite the bullet and get a Lamello joiner. Last I looked, their flagship model cost $700. Your point about lifecycle cost is well taken, however. 26 years is a long time, and I keep most of my tools for a very long time, so quality and freedom from petty annoyances become paramount.Bill
i like mine with gravy for breakfast.i dont know if there actually is a difference
View Image "We fight not to enslave ,but to set free"
Thomas Paine
Bill, you know what makes a strong wood joint. Good fit and the right glue, particularly good fit. Too tight and you get a glue-starved joint, too loose and you ask more than the glue's ready to do. Dependent on both the tool and the biscuit.
Lamello biscuits are consistent, as is the tool's slot. The wood compression is correct. Designed for our common wood glues to swell, giving the necessary clamping pressure. I have not side-by-side strength tested everything available. It's clear the cheap biscuits next to Lamellos certainly don't look the same where it counts.
No experience to speak of with fiberboard, plastic, or metal biscuits. My interest is strongest wood joint. Which is not important for the vast majority of biscuit uses. You've read here how important they are for a wood counter, for instance? Untrue. Carcase construction? Anything'll do. That's why I prefaced my opinion with my use. Park a pair of 200 pounders on that bench and you want to be very certain the joint doesn't fail.
Make sure you get a spare blade. They dull and won't give a clean cut, which will degrade the joint strength. Important if you need it.
I suppose my Lamello Minillo will require service someday, but it's cut an incredible number of slots including several years of full-time melamine carcase construction. I find the fully adjustable fence indispensable, but most wouldn't. When I bought mine, there was only one other choice, a very awkward one that pivoted. Name escapes me.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Edited 4/17/2007 7:50 am ET by VaTom
Tom,That other tool was the Elu, and a buddy of mine had one in the 80's. It was awkward, as you said, but he claimed it was excellent for undercutting jambs, kind of like a tiny, precise wormdrive saw. My DeWalt was such a big improvement over my first machine, the original Porter-Cable design, that my relationship with it continues to be characterized by gratitude for how well it performs. The slop is its only flaw, but as you stated, this can adversely affect joint strength, which really matters on only some of what I build.Thanks for replying, and thanks to all who replied with useful input. I appreciate it.Bill
Bill, Elu it was, thanks. Haven't seen one for ages, wonder why... I think biscuits wonderful, cheating maybe, but open opportunities.
As with anything, match the tool to the job. Here's another of mine. Nobody's yet sat on it, that's a glass insert, but I think it's ready. Testing to failure I rarely do. Certainly not this time, clamping was a PITA.
Many believe you should buy based on 90% application. As in, if it'll do 90% of what you want, it's the correct tool. Yeah, maybe. I bought a Hilti drill for making small holes in concrete after killing a Bosch. Major difference. Kinda depends on your pocket depth. I'm cheap, but sometimes recognize a superior tool. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
That table's name is Bigfoot, right? As in, "Put the new Fine Homebuilding on Bigfoot when you finish it."
LOL... I've actually had guests ask if it was OK to set a full glass of wine on it. Couldn't find pics of the really outrageous pieces I've done. Pair of nightstands that had to cantilever so the bed drawers could open. Carved toes on the feet.
As with the table, pretty much all parts off the lathe.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Prett nice work, Tom.
Tom,You really like cantilevered designs in your furniture! The strongest biscuit joint is not unreasonable on either design, more like essential for peace of mind.That 90% rule is not for me. I prefer to be optimistic and buy 150% of the capability I currently need. This then attracts interesting work that requires the beyond portion of capability. This is why I sold my drywall banjo, didn't want to be doing that work ;-).Budget matters to me, too. That is why I've been slow to go Lamello, or Hilti for that matter. But Festool has been worthwhile. Excellent tools open up new vistas in my work.Bill
Excellent tools open up new vistas in my work.
Exactly. Figure out what you want to do and head that direction. I set up our place here with the idea of it promoting my future commissions. Good plan, now changed. But that's OK too as long as it's acknowledged.
Combining turned parts I really enjoy. Recently changed from my trusty old Rockwell lathe to a much heavier Powermatic with variable speed. Disclosure: often my pricey tools have been purchased used. The Powermatic was ridiculously cheap, way less than I got for the Rockwell (sold to a guy who looked at 5 lathes and bought the most expensive, mine). I grabbed the only used Lamello I've ever seen offered, but my $350 at the time wasn't far from what you're looking at now. Hilti has such a great reputation that I figured used was little risk.
I've built a lot of boxes, decline all such offers now. Actually, rarely accept a commission. Only if it's interesting. Below is something "interesting" I suggested to a potential client who couldn't figure out any design details that she really liked. As they bought a new house, it isn't imminent. Or even likely. But she liked it...PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Sure, I can build a bedroom set like that for under $100K. What could go wrong?I hear you on building boxes. My friend with the Elu calls cabinetmaking "boxology." Very apt term, no? It has never held any appeal for me.Bill
I use Bosch biscuits with a PC 557 biscuit cutter and get excellent results.
I'm sure they are not Lamello quality, but they fit well in the slots that I cut.
Bosch biscuits...
with sausage gravy and grits on the side!
Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
Lamello came out with this new type of biscuit not to long ago. Supposed to be less prone to swelling in storage.
http://www.csaw.com/lamello/beechbiscuit.html
BTW the Classic C3 is a great machine for the money.
I've use Porter Cable biscuits for years. Buy them by the box, by the thousand. When I open the package I store them in zip lock bags.
I have a Dewalt biscuit joiner.
I've cut thousands of slots and set thousands of biscuits over the years, I can only recall 2 or 3 times I've had to toss a biscuit due to poor quality.
Never had a problem with them swelling in storage.
I second the PCs... I bought a humungous box of each size at a tool show years ago and they've always worked great. Ziplock bag's the key to storage.PaulB
Ditto again on the ziploc bags. I have some biscuits that are over 10 years old and still work fine. I never seem to use the middle size (#10 i think), just the big ones or the smallest ones.
Rich.
One of the mags did a real test of biscuits about six or seven years ago. They actually tested a random sample from each manufacturer for consistency of size, grain orientation, etc.. I'm still not sure it wasn't a joke, but it wasn't the April isssue.
Anyway, they came to the conclusion the PorterCable made the best biscuits.
Really? Better than the fine Swiss confections from Lamello? I'm shocked, simply shocked!But seriously, thanks for this.I have my Dewalt 682 apart, gonna try to reduce the slop with brass shims glued to the milled aluminum slots that the plastic tongues slide in. If it works I'll report back. Total clearance is now .005", and I'm aiming for .001" - .002". Due to twisting, that .005" becomes much more in use at the wood.Bill
That's cause Porte Cable married Betty Crocker!!I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!