What does everyone think is the best caulking to use for sealing door, window, trim, siding installations? I had always heard Lexel was excellent, but I was really disappointed today. What do you guys vote for?
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Replies
For long lasting performance in all applications, I would use Urethane caulk. With disimilar material (brick, wood, metal) there is nothing that performs as well. Movement doesn't separate the bond. Using it is hard, tooling is difficult, but can be done. If you get it on your hands, discoloration for a week of showers.
There are some butyl caulks that hold up almost as well and are a bit easier to apply and cleanup.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,
Denatured alcohol from a spray bollte make tooling and hand clean up a lot easier.
Thank you, I'll give that a try. To slick it down I've always used thinner.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
wd 40 cleans your hands
been doing it for years
maybe bad for you
de-natured alchol
is that like a 6 pack in a parking lot ??? ( no nature around)
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00146.asp
Good article.
Does anyone have a chart to show which caulk to use on which material?
My imediate problem is with a metal vent boot on a slate roof and I'm guessing silicone would be best.
Thanks.
Reread Calvin's post #2, above,
My choice would also be the polyurethanes.
But before you apply any caulk to your problem, revisit the installation. Your flashing lapping may be the culprit.
You're right. And thanks for the speedy reply. I read the article twice so I wouldn't look foolish asking the wrong question, but forgot Calvin's reply. ('tain't easy getting old!)
Waiting for the rain to stop before I venture out onto the slate roof to do another check.
oldfred
Try Geocel 2300, tripolymer sealant. It comes in about a dozen colors, will stick to just about anything (I have used it on cedar, stainless, glass, asphalt, brick, fg) it has 800% elasticity with memory, and a workable life of 25+ years. Yes, it costs more. between $3-5 per tube depending where you are able to get it. Google it and you will get the company web site.
I've been swearing by PL ever since I started doing repair work on exteriors. Just recently though, I giving Sidewinder another chance.
I think PL will last forever on the side of a house, but it is some of the messiest stuff ever invented, and can be difficult to get a perfectly tooled bead - at least suitable for one very picky homeowner I had to deal with this summer.
Sidewinder sounds like it may hold up just as well, and I've been able to apply it a little smoother.
If your working with PL, I've learned that polyurathane trash bags, cut up in whatever size peices, work better than anything else to wipe the caulk off of tools or hands. Paper towels are pretty usless, but the caulk takes right to the polyurathane trash bags.
Also, you can take a small peice of trash bag, and stretch it over your finger to make sort of a "glove" to smooth out the caulk line with. I'll sometimes cut a peice about 6" wide and 6 feet or so long and tuck it under my belt on the back of my pants. When I'm up on a ladder I'll cut off a 6" square from this, and as soon as it gets messy, chunk it and cut off another one.
Maybe you miss read my post, I use Geocel 2300 for caulking not PL. I use PL construction adhesive for plywood and beams. PL does not have elasticity needed to be a 50 year caulling. When I need adhesion of building members I too use PL.
>>> I use PL construction adhesive for plywood and beams. PL does not have elasticity needed to be a 50 year caulling.
I think the PL that folks are talking about here is NOT the premium construction adhesive, but the caulk/sealant. 50yr, permanently flexible, see link
http://www.stickwithpl.com/products/poly_sealants/poly_sealants.asp
BTW, PL (the product) is made by OSI (the company). My faves.
I must admit that I have never used the PL sealant, they have a different product for each surface, masonary, window and door, roof flashing etc. I use Geocel 2300 because one tube does all of that and it comes in colors.
Folks,
what you want is the Geocel 2300--in the PURPLE tube.
there is another Geocel product in a green tube------not the same stuff.
when using in very hot weather the green tube stuff gets very thin and "runny"--------much more so than the 2300.
Regaurding the Solar Seal-----I used that product for about a year maybe 12 years ago. Very good also----but I don't recall if its paintable. It was also reputed to be "self healing"----you could tear it apart and stick it back together and it would "re-seal"
for the guy caulking the waste stack flashing ( do you really want to get up there ever again?)
Only ONE choice in my book----Geocel 2300
Stephen
I had the same problem with GL Poly, tooled with fingers/thumbs. Great stuff but hard to keep off yourself. tried wearing latex gloves, and that sure seemed to work for me. Used the thin cheap ones that would wear off at the finger tip, but you can get heavier ones. Somehow the gloves keep me from always wanting to wipe hands off on my pants...
I also started using latex gloves when varnishing trim. After clean up, strip 'em off...no thinner fumes on your hands.
A timely thread for this homeowner, as I find myself scraping and repainting some exterior window trim this week. I'm scraping out old caulk from narrow gaps between wood trim, planning my caulking strategy before repainting.
The article in FH seems thorough, but is also frustrating: the new delux do-all caulks have one weakness--you can't paint them with an oil paint ("must be primed first with a latex paint"). Big bummer.
As these are small gaps probably not prone to expansion, I'm actually thinking about using West system epoxy with a lot of filler--spreadable like butter. If needed, I could sand it in an hour, then hit with any paint. Anyone ever take this approach?
Marc
All wood trim will have some amount of movement. Unless the entire project moves as a unit, such as a glued up panel in a door frame, something will give and the cracks will reappear.
I talked to someone at Geocel the other day and was told that the DIY version called Proflex is exaclty the same as the 2300, except for the packaging. Its also a lot easier to get - my local Ace carries it whereas 2300 requires a trip to the roofing supply company.
I should have read this before answering GRCourter. I'll check it out. We have a large Ace locally. Thanks.
Believe me, Proflex is NOT the same as 2300. If you just read the specs you will see the difference and in the actual use 2300 is worth the price. Prolex is the forerunner of 2300. It would be the same as saying the Edsel is the same as the Mustang, both are made by the same company.
I'm only repeating what the tech support person at geocel told me. She said they are the same except for the packaging. They don't seem to be priced that differently, less than a $1 difference per tube. I guess that could be a lot for a pro buying large quantities, but for a DIYer, not so much.In either case, I have 6 tubes of the 2300 in my garage waiting for my storm windows to go up. Haven't tried them yet though.
I am sorry that you have been mislead, they are not the same. If you are in doubt, buy one of each and see for yourself.
Thanks.
Looks like a good product. Checked their website and found the nearest dealer to be about 25 miles away. I'll look into it anyway. But I'll check our other stuff that's nearer too.
I moved to 2300 twelve years ago and use nothing else, it is hard to find in NE Florida so when I am in Detroit or Buffalo I stock up.
You know, it seems I recall an old thread on here where folks were talking about silicone not being recommended on metals as it has a deteriorating effect on some metals.
Does anyone recall this before oldfred goes up on his slate roof with the metal vent boot?
40,000 Americans are injured by toilets each year.
Thanks, rez!
I tried the search function and it's not working today.
Must be Sunday football. :o)
40,000 Americans are injured by toilets each year.
You're right! I just turned on the game and there's no search function on the screen. :)
But, thanks to all for the help. That's why I so addicted to this fourm.
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40,000 Americans are injured by toilets each year.
Why were you disappointed with Lexel. I have used and find it a good product. Poly urethanes are great but very messy, seems to get on everything.
I found it very had to work, and messy as all heck...plus it seemed to want to pull away from the trim. I've been using Phenoseal's Vinyl Adhesive Caulk, and it seems to work pretty well.
Some siding/door install guys lent me a tube of DAP’s Side Winder and I was impressed at it's smoothness, adhesion, and it's paintable. This is one of the new types of caulk that the FH article states is hard to classify other than being expensive.
The polyurethane caulks are probably my favorite, but things sure can get messy.
:-)
The trick I think, is to do tight carpentry that needs very little caulk but you knew that already. I've also been using Pl for a few years now and it seems to hold up well on the jobs I've revisited. PL is expensive though and I've recently switched to CR Laurence caulk that I get from a window supplier for much less. I dont know this for a fact but I believe it is the same stuff but they put their label on it.
Tom
>> The trick I think, is to do tight carpentry that needs very little caulk but you knew that already<<.
I'll have to disagree in some situations. The way caulk works, it needs a crack to go into to create a flexable bond between the 2 pieces. With tight joints, a thin layer of caulk smeared on the surface is not thick enough to be elastic. I tell my siding guys that I want 1/16 to 1/8" gaps everywhere. This allows for expansion and contraction of the 2 pieces. This would especially true when working on cool/bold days when you know your material is "shrunk up". On the other hand, lets say it is the mitered corners on brick molding on a door or an outside corner on crown mold at the soffit/freeze - that would be tight, and glued for best results.
Ah yes... the beauty of BT - always someone to disagree with you :-)
Well you are right of course but I think that caulk, in many instances is a false god. I was looking at a hardiplank job about ten years old and the hardi to trim joints have mostly given up. I'm thinking maybe recaulking will be a regular maintenance item on more modern materials. My idea of a good caulk job is one that I don't notice but does its intended job
Tom
>> I was looking at a hardiplank job about ten years old and the hardi to trim joints have mostly given up. << unless the joints were much over an 1/8th, it was probably due to cheap caulk - unless on the other hand the joints were run too tight and caulk was just smeared on the surface.
The issue I see though is that there are a number of new formula very durable caulks but few (if any) of these "wonder caulks" are nearly as easy to work with as siliconized latex - for example.
Tom, caulking is indeed a maintenance issue, but it's one that is absolutely necessary, just like changing the oil in your car.
Homeowners should inspect their exterior caulks every year. Of course they should touch up anything that shows signs of cracking or separating.
The idea that caulk is permanent is just plain bunk.
blue
McFish, I don't agree that tight carpentry is always the answer. Sometimes it's much better to leave a healthy gap, maybe 3/16", so that a healty caulk bead can be installed.
Indidently most window manufacturers require a 3/16" gap space for caulking. The "tighter is better" crowd consistently ignores that detail and also consistently voids the warranties on the window installations!
blue
I have used OSI brand calk for years and has worked very well in our northren climate. About 60.00 a case, purchase from building supply house. WD40 clean-up and a little spit on finger works well for tooling calk.
OSI makes a number of products...
I like their "Quad" caulk for special places - I gather from the article (link I referenced above) that it is a synthetic rubber. Price isn't too bad at about $3.50 a tube at the building supplies. Never seen it at big box stores though.
All: someone above mentioned tooling certain caulks using solvent as a "lubricant". To me, solvent means paint thinner, which leaves a slight oily film. I've heard this recommended a number of times before. Doesn't seem like that would exactly help the "paintability" of the caulk... This would not be true with denatured alcohol though - not that I'm saying that is the way go go. More just asking a Q about "solvent" and paint adhesion.
Edited 10/16/2005 12:41 pm ET by Matt
I was going to recommend OSI window and door caulk too egfd! That is some very tough stuff and it does last. It is also quite user friendly. The price is right too. I've put more OSI up than anything.
blue
we use a product called SolarSeal for caulking the windows and metal trim. Very strong, tools pretty easy, clean-up though requires solvent (can't think of its name off the top of my head).