Best Deck Stain On Planet Earth?
Josephtwomoons
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I’m restoring our pretty good size deck – little over 500 sq. ft. – and it’s about as time consuming as building the thing 15 years ago. It’s totally pressure treated pine -both sub-structure and surface, with 5/4, radiused deck boards – and was left to weather the first five years and has been coated twice with water base stain since.
I pressure washed it, replaced three or four deck boards, sanded it and now I’m faced with picking the best brand of solid, deck stain that anybody can suggest. Does anybody have any clear choice, best of the best, preference? The first part of this “little” project took too much time and effort to use anything less.
Replies
People swear by sikkens and penofin products.
Another thumbs up for Penofin.Realize that ANY deck stain/treatment will need refreshment every 'few' years.
gotta be Penofin...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Cabot has an interesting line of Australian Timber oil stains.
Thanks everybody. Believe I'll try to weadle a sample of those three products you all recommended. I'll have a little down time for a few more days 'til I start coating - it started sprinkling about 5 this morning and the weather guy says to expect 1-2" rain the rest of today. I didn't exactly need it on the exposed boards, but it's been awful dry around here the past couple of years, and it's needed. Thanks again.
My own approach to deck stain/treatment is to wait 'till the full-blown summer weather hits, and to have had a minimum of 1 week with no precipitation. That's just me, though.
The best I've found for PT decks is "Olympic Maximum"
I tried Cabot and a few other brands, but Olympic won hands down for my blistering climate.
To be fair to Penofin-- I only used it on a small portion where the Ipe and Pt wood met. So I really can't coment too much on Penofin on PT.
But Penofin is also 60% more expensive and I'm a cheap bastard. I get sick when I'm spraying or flooding a surface @ $50/gal. and most of it is wasted.
I've heard good things about Cabots, but have never tried it. I have personal experiance with Olympic Maximum. It is good stuff. I believe it has a two year weathering garuntee.
I just looked at a 5 gal. bucket in my shed, it says 3yr guarantee against greying and rot.
2yrs. in coastal Louisiana and I'm ecstatic.
While I don't think you could ever hold them to any Warantee issues, I still think it's a great product.
Olympic Maximum is also my choice. I did a clients 1200 sq foot deck last year at this time of year. This deck receives full sun and has snow laying on it the entire winter. Adhesion was great and I checked the color chip with the deck and the color stayed the same.
I think it has an 8 year Guarantee. Of course that isn't reality but it seems like a better start than some of the stains I have used in the past.
Good luck on your project,
Jon
Russian saying
Thanks Jon and everybody else recommending Olympic Maximum. It's definitely on my list to consider. I like the idea of an eight year warranty, regardless of the fine print and whether or not it's entirely realistic. The Olympic web site provides straight forward sounding language about their deck protection products. My preference is a product that degrades in a hurry after a reasonable course of time, rather than fading and clearly beginning to break down from the time it's applied. Many thanks.
I did a client's deck with the green can Olympic and they ere ecstatic. I bought it for mine in a custom shade but have not installed it. I did some Cabot "resin" product when I built the deck and was not overly impressed. I am usually well impressed with Cabot. By the way I tried the Wagner pad-stain thing with a small tank sort of like a swiffer they have in Lowes and it was a super joke.
BobFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
I'm in the process right now of stripping the old beat up looking finish on my mahogany porches(4)....actually DW is doing it this time : )
I use Cabot's Australian Timber Oil. I find the look is the best out there. Comes out looking like a piece a gadam furniture...it's awesome stuff. It's my 3rd time using it on these same porches.
Thing is it last about 2 1/2-3 years where it really looks great...depending whats above it.
I'm sure there's stuff out there that lasts longer but I doubt it gives you this incredable look so the shorter life span of the stuff is still worth it to me.
My wife sanded each porch down in one full day (approx 200 sq ft ) and it takes about as long as it takes to paint water over the porch cause thats about how easy it is to paint/roll it on. Takes a solid 24 hours or more to dry and you really do need to put it on in a thin coat.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
YMMV - For me the Cabot's ATO lasted a good 6, maybe 7 months on a hardwood deck similar to Ipe. Others in this climate (SF East Bay, over the hill where it gets hot) have reported similar experiences. We followed all directions, but did not wipe it down with solvent first as some recomment - who knows if that would have made a difference. Do you to that?
A local deck materials supplier, who handles a bunch of exotics, tested all the usual suspects as well as some local niche products. The one that came out on top for them was Messmer's. Same great look as the ATO but has lasted a lot longer.
For the PT Pine I'd tend to agree with the folks pointing towards Olympic. The softwoods are their target market.
before making a rec, I am suprised nobody asked the first two important questions. Maybe they did and I missed it - what kind of wood is your deck surface?Do you want a penetrating oil sealer type product, or a surface build film stain?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I constructed the entire structure with pressure treated pine, SYP. That was sort of buried in my original post. I wasn't certain about my preference at start, but after reading replies and searching the various products, I'm certain now that I want to stay with a solid color, water base, surface build stain. As random and varied as it is from board to board, I can't say the grain is attractive enough to deserve showcase attention.
The deck receives 35 or so inches of rain each year and the entire surface gets four or five hours of UV exposure daily. In checking over the sub-structure and the remaining surface boards, I'd estimate the deck and I have another ten years or so of useful life, but I'll likely recoat the surface more often than I have the past 15 years.
Do you recommend a particular product? Thanks for asking the question.
Thanks.After review, not even buried. You had it right there in plain sight easy to see after enough morning coffee.I have to profess some ignorance on water based surfce coats, and have learned now about the new Olympic product.I use more hardwoods and Penofin penetrating oils, but a surface film solid colur stain is probably better for this.Or a polyurethene deck paint, which would have better wear characteristics.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks. I hadn't thought about polyurethane. It worked just fine on my old Okoume plywood sailboat. I do remember it requiring lots of thin coats and tending to show through imperfections though. I'll revisit the characteristics and see what's recommended out there for use on decks.
What would you use on an old weathered redwood deck kept mostly in the shade from a large tree canopy?
Thanks
Deck wash first to rid you of the growths and stains and weathered surface.Then Penofin with redwood pigmentation. I think they have a special one for redwood and cedars. I haven't used redwood myself since CO where it was the decking of choice back then
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
While we're on the subject of decks, anyone have any suggestions for preparing a relatively new deck for stain?
By the time I get to it, this deck will be about 2 months old. I know that the conventional wisdom is to let the deck age longer than that, but it looks like very good quality PT lumber and it's pretty dry already. The surface is still very tight so I don't think it will readily accept stain. Ideally, the surface should be sanded to open up the pores, but that's not going to happen.
I'll be using Benjamin-Moore semi-transparent oil-based deck stain. I've used it before. It seems to hold up about as well as anything else (I've used Cabots and Penofin, but not Sikkens).
I'm considering power-washing it first, but it really doesn't need cleaning yet so I don't know if it serves any purpose.
Thoughts?
The main reason for letting it "age" is so that it can dry. So if it is dry you are ready to stain it. Power wash and it is wet again and you need a minimum three days warm and dry to get the wood dry enough again to stain."Aging" for too long means you have dead brittle lignin on the surface that will crumble and not hold stain. It then needs sanding to get to new wood for the stain to adhere to. generally wood exposed to the sun for more than 30 days needs some sanding prep.So if it is dry, clean, and sound, get it stained.I don't know about this "openning the pores"
I thought that was what a sauna does for you
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
PT lumber is dried before treatment. The "water" is not bound in. The US Forest Products Lab says that in dry warm weather it can be finished after a week or 2..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I suggest Thompson's Water Seal, as it'll give you something to do each spring. Sorry about that. Actually I've used all that have been recommended, and I've found Olympic products to be good bargains. Sikkens costs too much for its lesser durability, as it does seem to be a surface product requiring frequent renewal. Cabot is very good, but not, to me, worth the extra expense over Olympic. I have more time than money, so I use Olympic.
Most of the decks I've built are PT - which out here means junky Hemlock. The regular Penofin doesn't do much for their looks but the heavier pigmented Sierra gives them what I optimistically call a cedar look. A bit orangy, but then so is Sikkens. Not bad at all.I've never found a solid colour stain that would last one season on a deck here by the ocean, even quicker if it has to deal with hot tub chemicals - something the Penofin seems to resist very well.
I've used both Penofin and Sikkens. Initially the Sikkens looks much better, but if you aren't dilligent in re-coating it will wear off and flake as it is both a penetrating and a surface product. Then you are hooped as you have to sand to remove all the Sikkens or it will always be uneven. The Penofin is much more forgiving. In may appear a bit thin over time but is easy to re-apply and offers much better UV protection. Penofin on my deck, Sikkens on my beams.
Penofin.
I've been following this thread since it started and find it interesting because I will be building a deck soon and haven't decided on a finish. I don't mean to butt in, however it seems as though a number of guys here like Penofin. Their website shows several kinds; blue label, red label, and verde, which is their "green" product. Is there a favorite that you use? Also, how often do you have to re-coat? Oil-based or water-based?
I'd like nice finish, but I don't want to re-coat more often than I have to. I asked about ONE TIME WOOD in my own post, but it doesn't seem to be too popular. It sounds good, has 7 year warranty, seems like a practical way to go.
Again, sorry if I'm butting in, I just wanted to know what product line the Penofin guys use, and how long I could expect it to last in northeast Ohio.
I have never used Penofin's green product. Always used the red labelled, oil based stain. One coat the first year, one the second and then perhaps every 5 years or so. I don't know another stain you can say that about, no matter what they promise in their warranties. Most reviews I have seem rank it at the top for UV protection. A caution though - although it is ready for use in 12 hours, it smells very strongly for 3 or 4 days.
Regretably, I haven't used Penofin on my deck, so I can't answer your questions from personal experience. I know only what whose who recommended the product described and what the company website's claims for performance. Perhaps those members who recommended the product will read your post and respond. If not, maybe you can email them directly. Sorry.
Which penofin product simply depends on which wood you are using.Almost any deck product needs renewal every 2-3 years IMO.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Almost any deck product needs renewal every 2-3 years IMO.
Thats the bottom line in a nutshell if you ask me. Nothing on a deck out in the open lasts very long. Depends on your location and how in the weather the deck is...under trees...in shade..full sun...how much traffic.
I'd say figure 2-3 years tops on most decks with just about any finish.
To me the question is how complicated is it to "refinish" it. With the Cabots ATO I know from my experience it's fairly simple to sand down and puttting it on is almost as easy as mopping on a thin coat of water..
I wonder if the finish penitrates deeper...is it harder to refinish and does it last THAT much longer. The Cabot's doesn't penitrate all that deep in my opinion but it does last a good cpl of years...for me anyway...and on my porches that are under an overhang it lasts about twice the time.
Wood is wood..ya want wood (hee hee) ya have to pay yer dues...gee that sounds funny....otherwise use Trex or some other disgusting composite. Move to a condo...lol
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
"Wood is wood..ya want wood (hee hee) ya have to pay yer dues...gee that sounds funny....otherwise use Trex or some other disgusting composite. Move to a condo...lol"lmaojust finished a deck redo.. homeowner was tired of staining their cedar deck. New stuff looks ok, but on this house one of these things just doesn't belong.
just finished a deck redo.. homeowner was tired of staining their cedar deck. New stuff looks ok, but on this house one of these things just doesn't belong.
I can't imagine what doesn't belong. You did a great job of matching board grains...they all look like they're from the same tree. I haven't seen grain look that perfectly matched in my entire life. You'd think it was fake wood or sumpin' lol
Speaking of wood...oy, here we go again with my one track mind...I "just" got back from a 2 1/2 hour trip to pick up one 6"x12 "x 16' timber to complete the timber frame for my customer. You look at that one beam and it just does sumpin' to ya. There's so much gawdam soul in a beautiful chunk a wood like that. The day I have to use a faux wood for a deck overlooking a view like in your photo is the day after i have a prefrontal labodimy. With a house like that in an area like that you'd think the HO could afford to have somone come by every few years to freshen it up. ain't like it's THAT expensive to do....after all you do have to repaint an entire house every now and again so add thsat to your list or move to a condo.
I reckon sompe people really don't mind using that crapp.... I can see a time and place for it like maybe on a side of a house you use to walk around the house that gets abuse from overhanging trees or whatever but a nice wide deck overlooking a breath taking view???
If the decks real big call a floor finsihing guy and let him go over it one time with a drum sander. I dunno...must be me. There's something about natural products put together like they've always belonged together.
I'm so passionate about this stuff and I'm finding its time now for me to invent the new Beatles if you know what I mean....I'm really getting tired of spinning the same disc with just different riffs.....Listening to the same tunes is great but when you hit a note thats never really been played before and it leads to other inspirational notes then there ain't no stoppin' yeh....like when Lennon invented feedback on Daytripper..that one note took everything to a whole other level.
Sorry bout' the rant....
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Completely agree, but some customers you just know will never do any maintenance, and in a couple of years all your hard work will look like hell. I did a deck over a garage for such a man, and knowing what I know of his character made the deck out of concrete pavers. The railing was stainless steel and the stairs aluminium. Two years later it still looks good except for the wine stains he managed to impregnate into the concrete. The cedar deck around his hot tub I did several years before I can't bare to look at.
I completely agree.. I'm a wood guy to the coreThis stuff is ugly.. I'm not sure why people like it. It's kinda like laminate flooring, or vinyl siding. The handrails don't bother me as much as the decking. It must be the zebra striping on the decking. but in this circumstance the owners had wood, got tired of staining so they put an outdoor carpet over the thing, which of course led to... ROT. So there was no way I was talking them back into wood again. They're good customers, and this was a good size job, so I'm not turning it down.Bottom line, would I recommend it over wood? No. But if someone's got a deck they need some fancy plastic decking installed on, give me a call. :)I feel like I need to go take a shower now or sumptin.
Look good like wood should product, eh?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
for refinishing.... Sansins.
Our guys swear by it.
L
GardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
Lawrence...not looking to hijack this thread but real quick. Was talking to a good friend/associate that I'm doing an out door timber frame garden room with. It's open on three sides. Should come out awesome and we got to talking about doing outdoor structures in the same vein. I started thinking about your website and contacting you so here I am.
Any info you might have would go appreciated sent to : [email protected]
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Hi Andy...
Check email in the morning... I haven't even finished the package for this year, but I can send you last years tonight.
We have to streamline a bit from what we were doing, and I am way behind due to the website rebuilt... (3 weeks I should be caught up).
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog
no problem..here's what we're in the middle of...lots of stone work and two stone chimneys will be involved etc etc but this is justa starter for what I'd like to be much more ornate..or should i say more detailed. this is just the beginning of it.
OK OK...last of the hijack...sorry.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Nice Project Andy! That looks like fun-- Doctor or Lawyer? "the bankers aren't spending liike that right now--wouldn't look good".
LGardenStructure.com~Build for the Art of it! Decks Blog