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Best Exterior Balcony Deck/Covering

Papabambam | Posted in Construction Techniques on October 12, 2006 05:00am

We are building a home in St Francisville, Louisiana with a 8’x16′ second level balcony above a first level screened porch. The floor is currently framed with 2″x12″ treated joists 16″ o.c. and decked with 3/4″ treated plywood. The plan calls for 5/4″ tongue & groove decking. Due to the absence of an overhead roof, I am concerned with how this decking will hold up to the elements. Is there a reliable composite decking available? What are my other alternatives? Is lightweight concrete a good alternative, and would the existing framing support it? Leakage is also a concern. Is there a membrane that would accept screwing or nailing without leaking? Thanks in advance for your help!

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  1. User avater
    hammer1 | Oct 12, 2006 05:19am | #1

    Are you saying that there is a flat roof over a porch, and all it has is plywood on it and a layer of decking will go over that?

    Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

    1. Papabambam | Oct 12, 2006 05:23am | #2

      Mostly flat. There is a 2" slope on the deck over the 8' span. But, it's not just a roof. It's a balcony with railings and a door from an upstairs room.

      Edited 10/11/2006 10:25 pm ET by Papabambam

      1. Piffin | Oct 12, 2006 05:51am | #6

        How much higher is the door threshold than the plywood? Is the door already seet? There needs to be a flashing, and there should be a step four to seven inches there. When the hurricanes pee, the water will flood in over the thresh otherwise. 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  2. User avater
    McDesign | Oct 12, 2006 05:29am | #3

    Seal-O-Flex!

    Forrest

  3. peteshlagor | Oct 12, 2006 05:35am | #4

    http://www.miracote.com

    Look thru this site for information on their Miraflex II decking system.  Your application is perfect for it.  It is a lightweight concrete system (about 6 to 9 different layers) designed for decks, patios etc.  I'm doing one now on my stepson's deck in Michigan.

    Goes over exterior ply set at 1/4" slope.  Involves a placement of lath covered with an epoxy fortified ceement, several layers of a waterproofing, then another type of fortified ceement colored to your desire, stamped if you will or textured.  Followed by a couple of coats of sealer.

    There are about 5 different protocols depending upon application.

  4. Piffin | Oct 12, 2006 05:49am | #5

    It might last 4-5 years, if you do this and that and get lucky.

    Or you can roof it with EPDM, then spot some 2byfour sleepers in place, then deck it over with square edged decking like Ipe`. If the wind doesn't blow it off, it'll outlast you, most likely.

    T&G traps water
    Water makes wood rot

    Worse when tight over plywood

    Several threads here available. use the aadvanced search for terms IPE` and EPDM.
    photos therein

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  5. theslateman | Oct 12, 2006 02:22pm | #7

    You might want to consider a flat locked seam copper roof prior to install of deck on sleepers.

    You can have the railing posts secured then solder flashing to the copper-much like a "pitch pocket" on a hot roof.

    You definately don't want to nail down thru whatever roof surface you choose,be it membrane or copper or whatever.

  6. peteshlagor | Oct 12, 2006 09:11pm | #8

    To continue on the Miraflex II Decking System:

    http://www.miracote.com/download/Tab%209%20-%20Miracote%20Data%20Sheets/Miraflex%20II%20Decking%20System%20Code%20MIR%20120.pdf

    This is the company's product information sheet.  Describes applications, limitations, as well as all testing criteria.  Such as: tested thru 50 freeze/thaw cycles per season, chemical resistance or sensitivity, wind resistance, etc.  Note the bathroom/shower application.

    As well, it provides a class A fire rating.

    As others have suggested, proper flashing is critical.  It can be applied over membranes.  It ends up being about 3/4" thick, so weight is insignificant.  I'm told that for best results, it should be sealed with one of the Miracote solvent based sealers about every three years.

    In my application, I'll be installing on top of an exterior deck surfaced with Advantex and a complete insulated enclosure underneath.

    1. blue_eyed_devil | Oct 12, 2006 10:41pm | #9

      How much per square foot is this miracote system?

      I'm considering a second story deck and this looks like a good solution.

      blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want  50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.

      1. peteshlagor | Oct 13, 2006 12:34am | #10

        I just received (via email) the protocols for the various methods.  Give me a day or so to calculate the method appropriate and check prices.  I'll then let you know.

         

      2. peteshlagor | Oct 13, 2006 05:44am | #12

        I'll be getting prices for the components from White Cap tomorrow.  But for now, this is the procedure for wood applications.  Another procedure is used for concrete substrates.

         

        1.  On a plywood substrate (ext. ply, at least 5/8"), expanded wire lath (ASTM C847) is laid using #16 1" wide crown, 1/2" long leg staples (ASTM F1667) spaced 22 to 28 per sq. ft.

        2.  Primer (Miracote liquid catalyst, diluted 1:1 with clean H2O) is sprayed (Hudson sprayer) at the rate of 400 sq/ft per gallon.

        3.  Miracote Repair Mortar III (1 gal of RM III liquid mixed with 40 lbs bag of RM III powder) is hand troweled into the lath 1/4" thick.  (58 gallons and  bags per 1000 sq ft)

        4.  (Optional step, depending upon aging of the RMIII.)  Membrane A (I believe similar to McDesign's Seal-o-Flex) diluted 1:1 with H2O is dipped and rolled at the rate of 1 gal per 400 sq ft.

        5.  1st Membrane coat.  Using a notched squeege and backrolled, Membrane A is applied at the rate of 64 sq ft per gal.

        6.  2nd Membrane coat.  Same as the first.

        7.  1st coat of Protective Cementitious Coating.  Miracote Protective Coating (1 gal of MPC catalyst mixed well with 50 lbs of MPC powder) is hand troweled at the rate of 225 sq ft, or about 40 to 45 mils thick.  This can be colored as desired.

        8.  2nd coat of MPC.  Same as the first.  Hand troweled or screed

         

        These next two steps are dependent upon the look desired.

        9a.  1st coat of pigmented topcoat.  Miracote Colorbond (a pigmented clear topcoat) is either dip and rolled, or sprayed using a airless type sprayer at 300 sq ft per gal.

        10a.  2nd coat of pigmented topcoat.  Same as the first.

         

        (Back to the original procedure - included with either method.)

        9.  1st coat of Clear Sealer.  Either HD II Lacquer (an acrylic resin in a solvent base) or Miraseal (an acrylic copolymer in a aqueous base) is sprayed with the Hudson and backrolled at 400 sq ft per gal.  Avoid puddling and don't exceed the recommended thickness.

        10. 2nd coat of Clear Sealer.  Same as the first.

         

        Basically, these components can be tinted as desired and within the recommended application rates, textured as needed.

        Or, consider this to be an art project, using these components as your creativity allows.

         

        Proper flashing is assumed.  The underlying substrate MUST be stable and pitched at least 1/4" per foot.  Although at least the 5/8" ex. ply is required, one can go thicker, use something like Advantex, or first lay with felt or EDPM.  Reseal at least every three years.

        Obviously this is a higher end product.  My poker buddy's new $2.5MM monstrosity has such decking off of his 3 decks.

        I'm using this system because I need the waterproofing for the dry, insulated enclosed area below as well as to accomdate the traffic above (a deck with built-in grill).  Not to mention the ability to incorporate color to match the house's siding and ground pavers.

        Furthermore, I'm rejecting any composite decking due to the heat build up.  My current home has a composite material (about 10 years old) deck that simply cannot be used in the summer because the deck cannot be walked on in one's bare feet.

        Perhaps I'll take pics of the process and post the results.  Depending upon weather.

        Edited 10/12/2006 10:57 pm ET by peteshlagor

        1. peteshlagor | Oct 14, 2006 01:46am | #13

          White Cap.

          Whatz the matter with me.  I know Home Desperate bought them about 5 years ago.  Won't I learn?

          Been back there every day for the last three trying to get pricing.  Only one guy seems to know anything about the poduct and he's never around.  Leaving messages for him seems futile.

          And then, yesterday I need more epoxy for the crack I'm repairing.  They're out, but will get some from another location by noon.  I go in at 3:30 and it's not there yet.

          So I just sit there and stare at the sign which reads: "Will Call orders Guaranteed to be on time."

          Jeez, won't Ilearn?

           

          1. peteshlagor | Oct 14, 2006 07:32am | #14

            So's I call the company's (Miracote) regional managr to see if another shop has a decent inventory and guy that can provide pricing.

            He says, "I understand where you're coming from.  Let me come out to your job, answer your questions, provide the pricing, and answer any technical ?'s you may have." 

            He'll be here Monday at 2pm.

            Now I like that kind of service.

             

          2. blue_eyed_devil | Oct 17, 2006 05:03pm | #15

            I'll be on the edge of my seat at 2pm. Thanks for the updates.

            blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want  50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.

          3. peteshlagor | Oct 17, 2006 05:53pm | #16

            I just got the word.

            Now this is the cost of materials ONLY.  And probably the best prices available.

            About $2.65 per sq. ft.  Including lath and staples.

            It would take about 4 to 5 days with perfect weather conditions and no delays.

            Having someone else do it?  That 2.65 gets multiplied by what?  2?  3? 4?

             

          4. blue_eyed_devil | Oct 17, 2006 08:37pm | #17

            Thanks Pete. It's cheaper than I thought it would be.

            blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want  50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.

          5. User avater
            IMERC | Oct 17, 2006 09:56pm | #18

            from here or "other"??? 

             

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

            WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

            Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

          6. peteshlagor | Oct 17, 2006 10:17pm | #19

            I got the word from the regional sales manager of the Miracote Company.

            I supposed that word culd be different from whichever stocking retailer one works with.  But his numbers were based upon MSRP.

            I'm assuming that's what you mean by  "here or other."

            Should another interpretation be, "Denver vs. W. Michigan," that becomes moot, because he said he can have the stuff shipped to the job address.

             

          7. User avater
            IMERC | Oct 17, 2006 10:34pm | #20

            Having someone else do it?  That 2.65 gets multiplied by what?  2?  3? 4?

            here would be by people as in from BT..

            other would be "avaible work force"...

            herendous varity in pricing.. 

             

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

            WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

            Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

          8. User avater
            IMERC | Oct 17, 2006 10:35pm | #21

            BTW.. Denver is an inity of it's own..

            almost like a 'nother planet.. 

             

            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

            WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

            Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

  7. woody1777 | Oct 13, 2006 03:39am | #11

    Piffin is right use epdm. We have done dozens of decks in this type of application and have had no issues whatsoever with it. It is by far the most economical and (if you are DIY) user friendly. You can literally put it down with a utillity knife, a paint roller and a broom and a cordless drill. An 8x16 area would take two of our guys 2-1/2 hrs tops, even if youve never done it before,its a day job at most. 

    decked with 3/4" treated plywood. The plan calls for 5/4" tongue & groove decking

    That is a recipe for disaster, you will be replacing this in 5 years tops.

  8. Hainesportwoodworker | Oct 18, 2006 03:38am | #22

    For this type of roof deck we alway use fiberglass. It won't leak at all and will last many many years. About half my work is on barrier island very exposed to the harsh Atlantic. The first deck I did using this material was in 1988 on a beach house and it is still in excellent condition and has needed no maintenance. Your slope is fine for this application. Basically with this type of deck you screw down 3/4" marine plywood that you have applied polyester resin to the down side and edges. around the edge of the deck we install cedar 1x3 strips with a slight reverse angle on the lower edge to create a drip edge. We fill all screw holes and seams with a polyester resin filler and where the deck meets the house wall and or posts we use the filler to create a fillet with a 1 1/4" pvc pipe. The reason for this is that its better to apply fiberglass on curves and eliminate any sharp angles. In addition to rounding the inside angles we rout a 3/4" roundover around the 1x3 deck edging. Next we apply polyester resin to the deck, the cedar edging and 8" up any walls or posts, in which we set a fiberglass mat. The fiberglass is smoothed out with a steel roller to eliminate any air bubble and to even the surface. This will be dry in a day at which time we use a 8" disc sander to grind down any rough spots. We then apply a polyester resin gel coat that can be mixed to any color (the most popular are tans or grays) We usually get the gel coat with a satin type finish, not a glossy. The texture of the fiberglass and the satin finish make for a fairly no slip finish. On the wall we just install the house wrap and siding over the fiberglassing that extends up to form a weathertight seam. At the posts we usually install a pvc type railing with the post sleeves fitting over the fiberglassing. If you plan to leave the posts with the wood exposed you need to be neat with the fiberglass and gel coat, so you have an even edge. I would stay away from any membrane type roofing as they are hot and really don't look that nice. Also I doubt they are designed for alot of traffic. Concrete, besides being heavy, will be hard to flash and seal properly against the house.

    1. blue_eyed_devil | Oct 18, 2006 05:48am | #23

      Concrete, besides being heavy, will be hard to flash and seal properly against the house.

      I've been contemplating the connection to the house using concrete on and upper deck myself. I like your idea of fiberglass. Can a fiberglass transition be used with concrete?

      blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want  50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.

      1. Hainesportwoodworker | Oct 18, 2006 07:39am | #24

        I've never personally used fiberglass with concrete or seen it used by others. The fiberglass decks we do form a large single uniform piece. These type of deck are fairly common on the Jersey shore - probably tens of thousands of them. Some houses we do will have 5 or 6 separate fiberglass decks. If you do try it I would probably suggest epoxy resin instead of polyester. Epoxy is more expensive but it will expand and contract better and also I believe bond better to concrete.

  9. Reyesuela | Jan 19, 2007 10:47pm | #25

    Basically, you build the balcony it as if it's going to be conditioned space beneath, with a full roof with 1/4" per 1' slope away from the house. Choose your flat roofing. Then your best bet is probably this or something similar, for ease of application and later removal:

    http://www.swiftdeck.com/

  10. txcmanager | Jan 19, 2007 11:13pm | #26

    6x6  90  flashing from top of ply down joist

    apply Bitumin  (ABC supply co.) over decking

    Rip sleepers to level deck surface if threshold permits

    let your deckboards hang over flush to outside of post

     nail 2x6 cap over ends of decboards and to the face of posts for possible high winds uplift

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