I need to replace my trusty old 4 foot wood level that has served me very well over the years, and have heard different opinions and wanted to solicit everyone’s thoughts. Are the Stabilas really the best? Thanks!
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In a poll, you'll get different opinions but I think Stabila would be the one chosen most often. Do a search through the archives, you see all the pro's and con's.
Amazon has a good deal on the 59" and 24" set for $99 (I think), free shipping too. They cost more but the best of anything usually demand a premium price.
By reputation, stabila is the best. However I have found that I am equally happy with the Johnson contractors box level.
There are 3 things that I considered. 1st, the accuracy rating: 0.5mm per 1 meter= 0.029 degrees. Which Stabila and the Johnson both have.
2nd, Stabila has a lifetime gaurantee. Johnson offers the same. I asked at HD where I bought mine and they said there would be no problem bringing it back if it went out.
3rd, reading off the shelf. I'm amazed at how many people (including carpenters) don't know how to check a level for trueness. I'm also amazed at how many levels off the shelf are out of true. If you don't know how to check a level for true it's easy.level something, look at the reading - flip the level around and if the level is true it will show the same reading. Does not have to be a level or plumb surface.
On more than one occasion I was checking levels this way and was told by the guy in the tool corral that " that surface might not be level" They were thankful for the short lesson I gave them. With the Johnson, every level I checked was true. not so with some other makes I've checked. So I consider Johson to be pretty dang good. especially for $30 less than Stabila.
* note- not same case with the Johnson I beam level. must be the box beam. I beams I checked off the shelf showed inconsistant readings.
Edited 5/13/2005 1:48 pm ET by nails2
Edited 5/13/2005 6:04 pm ET by nails2
"By reputation, stabila is the best. However I have found that I am equally happy with the Johnson contractors box level"
I'm also very satisfied with my Johnson level.
I've had bad experiences with Empire. I spent about $80 on a 78" Empire, and it was only accurate for about 1 month.
I am VERRRRY happy when I get to use my Johnson!
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
<!----><!---->
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
lol
HAHAHAHA LOL
Sand's. Great levels.
Stabila. Many different sizes, and use them all (the new 59" for bathtubs is great). Gotta find a 30-32"er though. Empires are pretty much a waste of material; I also use a Johnson 72" box beam when I'm too lazy to pull out the Stabila jamber.
I've used three different Stanley 4' Fat Max levels over five years, and although two of them are missing endcaps and plastic handles, they still read true enough for what they are used for. Even the third (my own personal one) has been dropped several times and doesn't show much wear. Right now they're 30.00 at Amazon.com. BTW whoever posted about Johnson, they do make good levels but the only one I've seen (box beam) bent after one thing dropped on it...the 2' box beam is great though.
I wouldn't buy the Fat Max. I tested a whole bunch off the shelf; some were good some were a little bit off. When I tested the Johnsons, every single one I checked was bang on.
As for "true enough for what they are used for" I'm not sure what to say about that. The accuracy rating on a Stabila or the Johnson already acknowledges that as good as they are, they allow for for some variance. Do I want any less than that? Maybe I am just too fussy.
Don't drop anything on your Johnson. what is "one thing" ? a cinder block? I cringe the few times one of my levels has dropped a story. but they still read "true" for anything they are used for.
Edited 5/13/2005 10:38 pm ET by nails2
Most of my use for the 4' level is stuff like plumbing gable end studs, setting doors and windows, and leveling ridges...and occassionally as a straightedge to mark a piece of plywood. I've never had a problem with my Fat Max(es) and the Johnson is still accurate. For cornice I use a 2' Johnson and an 8' for walls
I have considered getting a set of Stabilas but with help like mine, I just can't justify paying so much for a tool that my guys are gonna be treating like a giant pogo stick. If I ever find help that cares about my stuff as much as I do, that's a different story!
I just bought the set of Stabila's mentioned above, with the 59" and the 24" for 89$ (regular 99$) from our local Tool Crib. I was using them to build some floor to ceiling storage cabinets in a garage. I was happy with them until the second day when I realized the 59" gave two totally different readings when you end-for-ended it. I called the Crib and they told me to bring it back and they would send it back to the factory and the factory would make it right. I then will have to wait the 2 or 3 weeks in the meantime with my old 4' level which has the same problem!
Of course if I only had checked it at the Crib before I bought it , this whole mess could have been avoided! I still can't believe that the Tool Crib won't just replace it for me, as it doesn't seem right to make the customer go through that on a brand new level. They said that is the policy of the manufacturer. Has anyone else run into the same type of problem?
Sorry to rag like this, just had to let it out! Other than this, the levels seem to be okay. The 24" is right on; and I do find the bright yellow color pleasing to the eye!
Duey
Duey, timely you should mention a possible change in Stabila's no nonsense warranty. My tool supplier told me just yesterday they were having trouble with the exchange policy. And this from a mom/pop type supplier that routinely makes the fix on their own on other equipment (getting reimbursed from the manufacturer later. Have had good luck with all my Stabila levels. One of their selling points was the no problemo exchange policy. The high price was dampened somewhat knowing of that kind of guarantee.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Stabilas are made in Germany. Strange, we don´t get a lifetime guarantee... I like the 80AMW http://www.stabila.de/eng/start_frame.htm . It has a milled contact surface (bottom).
Mathias http://www.raulfcarpenters.com
matt, I see nothing on the site promoting Lifetime Guarantee, but on the sticker applied to all my levels (so far) "If ever .........full replacement..........."
Maybe they have changed course.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I think it has to do with two different warranty-cultural philosophies. Due to permanent competition and demanding customers american manufacturers have developed "lifetime guarantees", "guaranteed period", "satisfaction guaranteed"... German manufacturers adapt as long as they sell in the US, over here they would not do it. The german customer is used to this and a lot of other things.
Why is a Mercedes or Porsche cheaper in your country (same configuration model)?
Mathias
http://www.raulfcarpenters.com
Mathias, beats the heck out of me on the benz/porsche price. Never have been able to consider those cars for purchase. I do remember tho that in the 60's it was the norm for some people to go to Germany to buy, tour around and then return here with the car. Savings of some sort. Also in the 80's there were companies that would buy up used, ship them here for resale. It just occured to me that maybe the reason for price diff now is the weak dollar and the rise of your Euro. Looks like its time to come for a visit, pick up a car and do some touring. Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
volume of sales, The US market has far grater market volume than say germany or france or the uk, just sheer # of folks who drive those cars.
james
Mathias,
The Johnson box level others have mentioned here is made in Austria. Most Johnson levels are made in the USA.
Ron
My dealer switched out a bad 12"Stabila for me no questions asked.
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Same here. I've swapped out 2 at my local dealer over the past 10 years (1 took a 15 foot dive off a roof - didn't bend, but didn't read right anymore). Dealer didn't have any problem giving me a new one, even when he heard the story behind the trade. Said as long as they're not bent, they're warrantied for life.
The cast aluminum Johnsons I've got (24 and 48) are bulldogs; they've both gotten knocked around in the normal course of life in a truck and on site over the last 10 years or so, and both are still dead on.
These are heavy tools, with fixed, non-adjustable vials. I credit that construction with them keeping their accuracy after all these years of rough service. The lighter, box-beam models with adjustable vials are much more subject to going off after a sharp ding or being dropped a few feet.
Johnson also has excellent customer service. When I bought one of their inexpensive laser level kits a couple of years ago, the hasp on the tool case busted off the first time I opened it. I e-mailed Johnson asking for a new hasp and before I got the answer back by e-mail, Fedex dropped an entire new tool case on my front porch. We're talking 2 day service and I didn't even have to drive back to Home Despot....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Not sure which ones you've got. They sound good. must be different than the Black I beam ones I've tested,and one that I've owned that went out. The box beams I own and have store tested are not adjustable, they are factory set. Maybe, they have an older model that you have seen. But your are right that a cast level is likely to take more abuse then the box beams that Johnson or Stabila make.
I don't know the model numbers, but here's a pic of them.
View Image
The only disadvantage to these I have found is that you can't read the vial from the top of the level. But that's not a big deal in my book. All in all, the best levels I have ever owned.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
They look top notch, and are definately not the Black I beams I'm referring too. I have'nt seen them with the other Johnson levels at our local HD. any idea for a current price? or if they still make them?If they stay as true as the Johnson box beams I have, they, for sure would be capable of more abuse.
You're in BC, so you're lucky. These levels were made by Johnson Canada in Pointe-Claire, Quebec.
Johnson also produces this model (or did a few years ago) for Canadian Tire under their house-brand label, Mastercraft. Same level, different name printed on it.
I paid $69 for the 4-footer, and $35 for the 2-footer IIRC. That was about 8-10 years ago. Canadian Tire's price on their housebranded edition is a bit lower, I think.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I have the same Johnson 24" level and I give it the same endorsement as you. It has knocked around my trucks and jobs under constant use for at least the last 15 years and is as dead on today as it was the day I bought it. I have looked for the same level in a 48" or 72" but can't find it. Wonder if they still make them. I'll try a search on the comp.
I was about to say I'd be surprised Johnson Canada makes something Johnson US doesn't...then I thought about it and decided not to express such a dumb thought, LOL....
Given the seemingly arbitrary rules that seem to govern globalisation and international marketing agreements, I would not be surprised that these models are only available in Canada; you could find out by e-mailing Johnson Canada at [email protected] . That 's the e-mail address of Fran Horrocks, the customer service rep who helped me out. The website is http://www.innovak.com . Or you could telephone Innovak / Johnson / General at 514-695-7221 x348 (that's a Montréal phone number).
I've never seen a 72" version of this in our local stores, but that's not too surprising. It's possible it's available, but it would be very expensive and there's not much market up here for that price level of tool. An unfortunately high percentage of the local 'boys' operate on the theory that cheaper is better and just chuck it when it busts and buy a new one. Ninety percent of the levels I see other contractors working with are cheap aluminum box-beams sold for $9.95/24" and $15,95/48"....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Edited 5/19/2005 7:29 pm ET by Dinosaur
I checked it out and they don't seem to have that heavy duty cast type anymore. I was in HD today though and they had three different brands of the 72" good box beam type, Stanley, Johnson, and Empire. I liked the Johnson, it's their top of the line, about $60, and I might be persuaded.
Here's the same level, manufactured by Johnson under the house-brand name 'Mastercraft' for Canadian Tire. Note that the prices quoted are in Canadian dollars.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396669763&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1116550762996&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441898815&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true
It doesn't look like they ship to the US; you might have to ask them to ship it to a friend or relative of yours in Canada for re-shipment to you.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
Another vote for Stabila. My wife gave me one for my birthday....guess she does love me.
cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
I'll vote for my old Levelution levels, now owned and marketed as Irwin. They've been dropped, kicked and generally used hard for a few years now on site and they are still straight and accurate. Definitely worth the money. I like them better than Stabilas because the vials are field adjustable. Stabilas are lighter though.
Edited 5/18/2005 1:09 pm ET by Thomas Moen
My vote is for Levelution (Now owned by Irwin).
Pros:
Cons
If I had to buy another set (I haven't, plus I think they're guaranteed for life aren't they?) I would would buy another set. I (we) recommend them very highly.
View Image
Irwin is not carrying on the modular (different sized levels that can be connected together to give different lengths) Levelution line. Its a shame, its a crime. I wont buy anything Irwin now becuase of that.
Ive got two different levelution sets. One has two 2' sections and one 4' section ( can make a 2',4', or 8' level). The other is there door hanger set. Has one 4' section, one 30" section, and one 18" section ( can make combo's of 66", 78", or 96"). I can combine the two sets to make all different lenghts ( have made them up into a 12' level before).
Has anyone noticed/ had any problems with the levelution bowing or bending if your pushing it up against material ( like against a bowed jamb when plumbing a door)???
-m2akita
Here's what I got by asking at Irwin's web site, large parts of which are called levelution.com:
IRWIN bought the Levelution Level Company and we have introduced a lineof IRWIN branded box beam levels. Due to low volume the snap togetherlevel kit was discontinued. Let us know if you have any other questions.-----Original Message--------Question: Where are Levelution levels? their web site directs you tothe irwin site, but I can't seem to find them on the site. I am lookingfor the sets that snap together. Thanks. Rich.
Like you said, a crime, a shame.
Sad to say then when I found out about the sale I went out and bought a few Stabila's again since I knew I would never be able to get parts.The other day while walking through the HD I noticed that Empire has a slick new level that states it's accute to 0.0005 in all positions and has a serial number that you register online for a lifetime G. I'm going to buy one . . . . and see.
Can't find em anywhere anymore since Irwin bought them out but, Levolution levels rule the planet! Next comes Stabilla. Stabilla jambers pkg. good deal if you get it with the bag (slightly padded) 8'+ Plate level rocks and no play in it great bag and you can stuff the plate level a 6 footer and 2 foot and a 32" level in the outside sleeves
-One silly observation, watch you hands/fingers when colapsing the plate level (if you catch it just wrong, it'll take a chunck of skin out of your hand !)
-Have had the levolutions for about 4 years or so and use the daily, great tool easy to see bubble
-Stabilla is a little more ergonomic with the hand holes on some of them keep losing endcaps though?!? not sure why...
-I hope that irwin could bring them back.... but maybe they already have a level division and just bought levelution to ease competition
I use two of these levels and they are very good.
http://www.master-level.com/
Adjustable vials too so you can always re-calibrate them to perfection.
I was in a pinch and bought that red husky box beam level, 48" for 30 bucks. I diddnt expect much but its been a great level, a few drops and even a careless nail shot through the side.Its been about a year I think, good so far.______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
I think maybe I lean towards Stabila......
that 48" level sure looks wimpy next to those bullys______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
I was passing those the other day and thought they looked exactally like some Kapro levels I have. When I checked them out they were made in Israel, like the Kapros so I would guess that's who's making them for HD.
They've actually been really good levels for us too, reasonably priced and hardy. I had one bad level that I didn't check good enough at the store, and didn't get around to taking it back to get replaced for a couple of years, they gave me a new one with no hastle at all.